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[Music]

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greetings and salutations and welcome

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back my friends

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today is july 7th 2022

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and it is a very special day

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for some time now i have been compiling

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evidence research

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interviews with experts and more in

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order to bring you a deep dive down the

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roswell rabbit hole the likes of which

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you've never

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experienced i reasoned that if i could

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bring all the world's leading experts

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here

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pick their brain

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i might be able to shed some light on

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this mystery

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if you're new to the channel please do

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be sure to hit that subscribe button and

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smash that notification bell so you will

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know about future special events here

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we'll be broadcasting all day today and

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all night tonight

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this is the truth seekers roswell rabbit

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hole

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[Music]

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welcome back

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[Music]

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welcome back my friends back to another

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edition of the midnight hour show

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my name is stephen cambion also known as

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the mystery man

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bringing you

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an incredible night of mystery

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tonight my friends

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we will be discussing one of my very

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favorite mysteries and that is

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the mystery of roswell

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in early june 1947

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something

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yes my friends

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something

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crashed in the desert

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since that time

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there has been an incredible amount of

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material

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on this

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mystery

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[Music]

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on this thing that some would say

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is an incredible conspiracy

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my own study into this has led me in a

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hundred different directions

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and to be quite honest i have avoided

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doing a show

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on this roswell thing even though it's

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one of my very favorite cases

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the reason for this my friends is quite

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simple

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i like to make sure

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that i bring my guests an absolute

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expert an incredible

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guest that can shed light on this

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subject and until now

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i have not had access to someone that i

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trusted enough

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to bring my listeners the truth

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but all of that is going to change

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tonight because tonight we have world

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renowned

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ufo expert author

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lecturer and researcher and roswell

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expert don schmidt

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this man has been investigating

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roswell for

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decades i've read all his books which

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are extremely well written and well

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researched

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and i'm pleased and delighted to be able

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to have him on our show tonight

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to help us all

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learn

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what could perhaps

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be the truth

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of one of the greatest mysteries

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on planet earth

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[Music]

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the roswell case is truly one of the

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greatest cases

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in so-called ufology and with good

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reason

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this is an incredible story that's got

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all the pieces of an amazing mystery

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possible alien crash landing

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we have

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a possible government cover-up

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we have

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death bed confessions about what really

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happened there

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my friends

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this is one of the greatest cases

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ever

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because

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there is

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literally mountains of evidence that go

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we have the united states government

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releasing a news story

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when this first happened saying

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we've captured

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a flying saucer

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on a ranch

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that news story went out on the wire

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and became an international story there

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was people from other countries calling

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the base asking about it

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shortly after that news story

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which was issued by the united states

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army

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very quickly

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the government

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stepped in

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and corrected themselves

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and said no

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it wasn't a flying saucer

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years and years later

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they would come up

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with another story saying no it wasn't a

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weather balloon it was actually

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a top secret balloon from project mogul

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which was a project where they would

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send

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balloons up into the upper atmosphere to

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listen for soviet

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they would also say that the reports of

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bodies

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were nothing more

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than anthropomorphic

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dummies

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which were dropped

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in another project to study the effects

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of

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high altitude

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the problem with that explanation for

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the bodies is that

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it wasn't until years and years after

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1947 that this project

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that involved dropping dummies

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at high altitudes

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my friends i have never believed the

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government about this case

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and i don't think you should either

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quite frankly the government has lied

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again and again and again about what

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really happened

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there

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on that ranch

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in early june 1947

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and to suggest

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that a bunch of

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army intelligence people who were

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assigned to the only nuclear bomb group

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in the country at the time they were

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responsible for our nuclear weapons to

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suggest that those very educated trained

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observers

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who saw weather balloons all the time

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would not know the difference between a

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flying saucer and a weather balloon

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is absolutely ludicrous

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and in my study of this incredible case

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i have found that the evidence to

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support the extraterrestrial hypothesis

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is

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overwhelming my friends not just

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convincing

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but overwhelming

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and this is one of the reasons i wanted

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to have my guest don schmidt

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on the show tonight

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because don schmidt

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is so incredibly knowledgeable about

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this subject he can tell you the names

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of the men who are there at the debris

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field collecting the debris

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he can tell you the name of the driver

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of the truck who drove it back to the

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base

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he can tell you the name of the pilots

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who flew the debris

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and the recovered

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bodies back to wright patterson air

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force base

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the evidence my friends

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is

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more than convincing enough to consider

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that the extra terrestrial hypothesis

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may

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be

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and so what are we to do

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ignore all that evidence

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i always find it funny when i talk to

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skeptics about roswell

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who make ridiculous statements like well

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there's just no evidence and the

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government said it was a weather balloon

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no

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first the government said it was a

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flying saucer then they said it was a

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weather balloon then they said it was a

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top secret balloon project that had

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nothing to do with the weather

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my friends the story from the government

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keeps changing

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and yet

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the story

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does not change

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in fact their stories remain incredibly

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consistent

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even after all these years

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even the stories of their children

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as told in don schmidt's amazing book

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children of roswell

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provide compelling evidence

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that yes

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an alien

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spacecraft

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indeed

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crash landed in roswell new mexico in

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compelling evidence

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that people witnessed

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not just

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[Music]

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the debris

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of a crash flying saucer but also

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the bodies

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and even

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even

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a living survivor

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of the crash

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that was not

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human

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and this my friends is why

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i believe this is one of the most

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compelling mysteries on planet earth

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and i continue to be fascinated by all

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for example did you know

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that

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nearly all the paperwork

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surrounding this event

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that the government once had in its

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was mysteriously destroyed without

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authorization

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now my friends

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go and ask anyone you know who works for

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the government

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it takes

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authorization to destroy documents you

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cannot just destroy government documents

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and yet every document related to this

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event that the government once had in

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its possession

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have been destroyed or lost or cannot be

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located

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so when people claim i'm a little crazy

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for saying there's a government cover-up

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i just point to those missing documents

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and that my friends i feel

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is proof enough along with all the

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first-hand witness testimony refuting

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what the government said happened here

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that's proof enough my friends to me

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that yes

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i believe an alien spacecraft crash

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landed i believe the government

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snatched it up

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and then covered it up

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and i believe

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that the cover-up continues

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and continues

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and the truth is my friends

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i am incredibly grateful

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to people like my guest tonight don

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schmidt

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who has refused to allow that cover-up

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don schmidt is

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absolutely relentless in his pursuit

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of the truth about roswell

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and that my friends

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is something we need

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we need people like him so that the

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government cannot continue

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and i have to say

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i've been following his research

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and his findings

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for years now

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he's one of the most respected and

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credible researchers out there

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because he is a dying breed of

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by that i mean

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he

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witnesses

302
00:14:26,230 --> 00:14:23,279
interviewing people

303
00:14:30,710 --> 00:14:26,240
digging through documents in archives

304
00:14:31,829 --> 00:14:30,720
trying to find the truth he has left

305
00:14:34,470 --> 00:14:31,839
literally

306
00:14:37,430 --> 00:14:34,480
no stone unturned

307
00:14:39,030 --> 00:14:37,440
in his search for the truth

308
00:14:41,350 --> 00:14:39,040
and i gotta tell you that i have

309
00:14:45,030 --> 00:14:41,360
tremendous respect for a man who would

310
00:14:48,310 --> 00:14:45,040
dedicate himself so fully to finding the

311
00:14:51,269 --> 00:14:50,470
i have heard

312
00:14:52,790 --> 00:14:51,279
the

313
00:14:58,470 --> 00:14:52,800
younger

314
00:15:01,670 --> 00:14:58,480
referred to as

315
00:15:03,509 --> 00:15:01,680
right click researchers

316
00:15:05,350 --> 00:15:03,519
you see my friends you can do an

317
00:15:06,550 --> 00:15:05,360
incredible amount of research on the

318
00:15:09,910 --> 00:15:06,560
internet

319
00:15:12,949 --> 00:15:09,920
but there is no substitute for going to

320
00:15:14,550 --> 00:15:12,959
places in person for going to archives

321
00:15:17,430 --> 00:15:14,560
of documents

322
00:15:20,710 --> 00:15:17,440
for going places and interviewing

323
00:15:24,230 --> 00:15:20,720
witnesses seeing the scenes

324
00:15:26,870 --> 00:15:24,240
the sites where these things happen

325
00:15:29,350 --> 00:15:26,880
and that is what my guest

326
00:15:34,790 --> 00:15:29,360
tonight has been doing for literally

327
00:15:40,150 --> 00:15:36,870
so my friends

328
00:15:42,949 --> 00:15:40,160
i guess without further ado let's get to

329
00:15:46,150 --> 00:15:42,959
the mystery phone where my expert guest

330
00:15:49,749 --> 00:15:46,160
is standing by

331
00:15:52,470 --> 00:15:49,759
let's get right to our list of questions

332
00:15:54,310 --> 00:15:52,480
for our expert guest

333
00:15:55,350 --> 00:15:54,320
the one of the things that fascinates me

334
00:15:57,110 --> 00:15:55,360
about

335
00:15:59,350 --> 00:15:57,120
those people that dedicate so much of

336
00:16:01,749 --> 00:15:59,360
their time and their lives to the study

337
00:16:03,910 --> 00:16:01,759
of these things is to ask them

338
00:16:05,670 --> 00:16:03,920
in your case i i was interested in what

339
00:16:07,990 --> 00:16:05,680
got you initially interested in the

340
00:16:09,670 --> 00:16:08,000
whole subject and then more deeply what

341
00:16:12,790 --> 00:16:09,680
got you so

342
00:16:16,230 --> 00:16:12,800
focused on roswell

343
00:16:20,629 --> 00:16:16,240
okay what got me involved or at least

344
00:16:22,470 --> 00:16:20,639
intrigued in the subject was i was a

345
00:16:23,990 --> 00:16:22,480
young boy at the time of the kennedy

346
00:16:26,470 --> 00:16:24,000
assassination

347
00:16:28,629 --> 00:16:26,480
and my father was away

348
00:16:31,030 --> 00:16:28,639
uh for the weekend

349
00:16:33,910 --> 00:16:31,040
it happened on a friday

350
00:16:36,310 --> 00:16:33,920
and uh for those of my generation we

351
00:16:38,550 --> 00:16:36,320
will never forget exactly where we were

352
00:16:40,550 --> 00:16:38,560
what we were doing what we were thinking

353
00:16:42,550 --> 00:16:40,560
everything every moment that happened

354
00:16:44,470 --> 00:16:42,560
that entire weekend

355
00:16:45,910 --> 00:16:44,480
and after the warren

356
00:16:48,790 --> 00:16:45,920
commission

357
00:16:51,430 --> 00:16:48,800
was appointed and everyone was awaiting

358
00:16:54,310 --> 00:16:51,440
you know the final verdict was it

359
00:16:57,110 --> 00:16:54,320
conspiracy or not

360
00:16:58,470 --> 00:16:57,120
and when the report finally

361
00:17:02,150 --> 00:16:58,480
came out

362
00:17:05,750 --> 00:17:02,160
the words of whitewash and cover-up

363
00:17:08,230 --> 00:17:05,760
were more prevalent than anything

364
00:17:11,189 --> 00:17:08,240
and it was a few years later i was out

365
00:17:12,870 --> 00:17:11,199
christmas shopping with my folks and

366
00:17:15,270 --> 00:17:12,880
i was

367
00:17:18,069 --> 00:17:15,280
always you know

368
00:17:19,750 --> 00:17:18,079
looking for the next book

369
00:17:22,949 --> 00:17:19,760
all the kids my

370
00:17:25,110 --> 00:17:22,959
age wanted toys and

371
00:17:26,789 --> 00:17:25,120
bicycles and

372
00:17:28,870 --> 00:17:26,799
whatever they could be entertained by

373
00:17:31,029 --> 00:17:28,880
and i wanted nothing of nothing but

374
00:17:32,470 --> 00:17:31,039
books

375
00:17:37,750 --> 00:17:32,480
and

376
00:17:39,110 --> 00:17:37,760
across this book flying saucers serious

377
00:17:41,029 --> 00:17:39,120
business

378
00:17:43,350 --> 00:17:41,039
new york times bestseller

379
00:17:45,270 --> 00:17:43,360
by frank edwards

380
00:17:47,510 --> 00:17:45,280
and on the

381
00:17:50,630 --> 00:17:47,520
jacket were those very same words

382
00:17:52,470 --> 00:17:50,640
whitewash cover-up

383
00:17:55,270 --> 00:17:52,480
and

384
00:17:57,909 --> 00:17:55,280
i saw a chapter inside entitled who's

385
00:18:04,070 --> 00:18:01,270
and it was about occupant cases ufo you

386
00:18:05,669 --> 00:18:04,080
know occupant sightings from all around

387
00:18:10,230 --> 00:18:05,679
the world

388
00:18:11,830 --> 00:18:10,240
and i was just mesmerized i just uh

389
00:18:14,789 --> 00:18:11,840
fell in love

390
00:18:15,830 --> 00:18:14,799
with the possibility of someone else out

391
00:18:17,750 --> 00:18:15,840
there

392
00:18:20,390 --> 00:18:17,760
and i couldn't get my next book fast

393
00:18:23,190 --> 00:18:20,400
enough which just happened to be flying

394
00:18:25,590 --> 00:18:23,200
saucer occupants by coral and jim

395
00:18:26,950 --> 00:18:25,600
lorenzo the whole book was occupant

396
00:18:30,470 --> 00:18:26,960
cases

397
00:18:32,789 --> 00:18:30,480
and i would sit on a pier on a lake in

398
00:18:35,590 --> 00:18:32,799
northern wisconsin

399
00:18:38,950 --> 00:18:35,600
as a little boy with just a flashlight

400
00:18:40,549 --> 00:18:38,960
and read some of these scary ufo

401
00:18:42,950 --> 00:18:40,559
encounters

402
00:18:46,549 --> 00:18:42,960
and i wasn't scared

403
00:18:49,270 --> 00:18:46,559
i i became just all the more fascinated

404
00:18:51,270 --> 00:18:49,280
and intrigued and i i was hooked i was

405
00:18:52,630 --> 00:18:51,280
hooked

406
00:18:55,510 --> 00:18:52,640
and then almost

407
00:18:56,549 --> 00:18:55,520
beginning of uh the just the the overall

408
00:18:58,310 --> 00:18:56,559
topic

409
00:18:59,590 --> 00:18:58,320
so then

410
00:19:04,310 --> 00:18:59,600
when

411
00:19:08,070 --> 00:19:06,870
in 1980 by bill moore and charles

412
00:19:11,110 --> 00:19:08,080
burlitz

413
00:19:15,110 --> 00:19:11,120
i wasn't interested at all in fact a few

414
00:19:17,669 --> 00:19:15,120
years later i even did a a paper

415
00:19:19,350 --> 00:19:17,679
where i argued the point that i could

416
00:19:21,110 --> 00:19:19,360
not accept i couldn't believe that

417
00:19:23,510 --> 00:19:21,120
something of that magnitude could be

418
00:19:25,750 --> 00:19:23,520
kept a secret for that many years so i

419
00:19:28,150 --> 00:19:25,760
just blew it off

420
00:19:30,310 --> 00:19:28,160
and then when i became uh director of

421
00:19:32,150 --> 00:19:30,320
special investigations

422
00:19:33,190 --> 00:19:32,160
for the jayland heineck center for ufo

423
00:19:35,750 --> 00:19:33,200
studies

424
00:19:37,430 --> 00:19:35,760
the first case i wanted to go after was

425
00:19:39,590 --> 00:19:37,440
roswell

426
00:19:41,990 --> 00:19:39,600
i thought we'd make a single weekend

427
00:19:44,150 --> 00:19:42,000
jaunt down to uh

428
00:19:45,990 --> 00:19:44,160
new mexico and prove that it was a

429
00:19:48,950 --> 00:19:46,000
weather balloon device as the government

430
00:19:50,950 --> 00:19:48,960
still maintains or or something just as

431
00:19:54,710 --> 00:19:50,960
prosaic

432
00:19:55,510 --> 00:19:54,720
and um that was in february of 1989

433
00:19:56,710 --> 00:19:55,520
and

434
00:19:57,830 --> 00:19:56,720
i can

435
00:19:58,870 --> 00:19:57,840
proudly

436
00:20:01,590 --> 00:19:58,880
admit

437
00:20:03,830 --> 00:20:01,600
we were totally wrong

438
00:20:06,710 --> 00:20:03,840
that uh we were

439
00:20:09,750 --> 00:20:06,720
immediately

440
00:20:10,870 --> 00:20:09,760
captivated by the idea that

441
00:20:13,750 --> 00:20:10,880
not only

442
00:20:15,830 --> 00:20:13,760
were we wrong but we had to treat this

443
00:20:16,630 --> 00:20:15,840
like it was genuine like it was the real

444
00:20:18,549 --> 00:20:16,640
thing

445
00:20:21,510 --> 00:20:18,559
and it was the first 10 witnesses

446
00:20:22,950 --> 00:20:21,520
specifically describing the wreckage

447
00:20:25,909 --> 00:20:22,960
and it's

448
00:20:27,909 --> 00:20:25,919
highly unusual characteristics the the

449
00:20:29,029 --> 00:20:27,919
the strangeness the

450
00:20:30,230 --> 00:20:29,039
just the

451
00:20:32,470 --> 00:20:30,240
uh

452
00:20:35,350 --> 00:20:32,480
the very

453
00:20:36,230 --> 00:20:35,360
characteristics of the wreckage

454
00:20:38,710 --> 00:20:36,240
that

455
00:20:41,110 --> 00:20:38,720
made us quickly realize my god these

456
00:20:43,830 --> 00:20:41,120
people are not describing a balloon a

457
00:20:45,430 --> 00:20:43,840
plane a rocket or anything else of that

458
00:20:47,029 --> 00:20:45,440
nature they're truly describing

459
00:20:48,870 --> 00:20:47,039
something exotic

460
00:20:51,110 --> 00:20:48,880
something beyond the pale

461
00:20:52,870 --> 00:20:51,120
and as they would say the rest is

462
00:20:54,230 --> 00:20:52,880
history

463
00:20:55,270 --> 00:20:54,240
yeah i've heard you mentioned before

464
00:20:57,590 --> 00:20:55,280
that you thought you were going to get

465
00:20:59,110 --> 00:20:57,600
to the bottom of it very quickly

466
00:21:01,190 --> 00:20:59,120
but i guess you

467
00:21:03,669 --> 00:21:01,200
the deeper you dig into this roswell

468
00:21:04,950 --> 00:21:03,679
thing the more layers that you find

469
00:21:07,110 --> 00:21:04,960
isn't that right

470
00:21:09,590 --> 00:21:07,120
precisely yeah that says we would say

471
00:21:10,710 --> 00:21:09,600
peeling away the layers of an onion

472
00:21:13,350 --> 00:21:10,720
and

473
00:21:15,990 --> 00:21:13,360
it's it's not a case of where

474
00:21:17,909 --> 00:21:16,000
you know any law enforcement officer

475
00:21:20,149 --> 00:21:17,919
would would mention any insurance

476
00:21:20,950 --> 00:21:20,159
investigator would say that

477
00:21:26,710 --> 00:21:20,960
10

478
00:21:28,950 --> 00:21:26,720
versions

479
00:21:30,390 --> 00:21:28,960
and there's a famous

480
00:21:32,549 --> 00:21:30,400
movie

481
00:21:35,270 --> 00:21:32,559
from 1950

482
00:21:38,470 --> 00:21:35,280
about a japanese murder trial

483
00:21:39,909 --> 00:21:38,480
and it's called the rashomon effect

484
00:21:42,230 --> 00:21:39,919
and

485
00:21:47,029 --> 00:21:42,240
what it is

486
00:21:50,549 --> 00:21:47,039
is basically it's a takeoff on one's iq

487
00:21:53,190 --> 00:21:50,559
and i learned very early on that an iq

488
00:21:54,310 --> 00:21:53,200
test is not necessarily an intelligence

489
00:21:55,510 --> 00:21:54,320
test

490
00:21:59,029 --> 00:21:55,520
it more

491
00:22:01,430 --> 00:21:59,039
likely tests someone's experience their

492
00:22:04,630 --> 00:22:01,440
background their environment

493
00:22:06,149 --> 00:22:04,640
and all those things lend to one's very

494
00:22:08,230 --> 00:22:06,159
perception

495
00:22:09,350 --> 00:22:08,240
in witnessing

496
00:22:12,870 --> 00:22:09,360
events

497
00:22:17,669 --> 00:22:12,880
and as a result we are influenced not by

498
00:22:19,590 --> 00:22:17,679
the event itself but by that background

499
00:22:21,110 --> 00:22:19,600
and so

500
00:22:23,830 --> 00:22:21,120
i find that

501
00:22:26,870 --> 00:22:23,840
just as the roshaman effect

502
00:22:30,070 --> 00:22:26,880
in other words i could say that you for

503
00:22:31,350 --> 00:22:30,080
example stephen you have your

504
00:22:33,350 --> 00:22:31,360
opinion

505
00:22:34,549 --> 00:22:33,360
about roswell

506
00:22:38,070 --> 00:22:34,559
and then

507
00:22:41,029 --> 00:22:38,080
i have my opinion about roswell

508
00:22:42,870 --> 00:22:41,039
and then there's what really happened

509
00:22:45,190 --> 00:22:42,880
what actually happened

510
00:22:46,470 --> 00:22:45,200
so then it comes down to well who's

511
00:22:52,549 --> 00:22:46,480
actually

512
00:22:54,549 --> 00:22:52,559
to determine what really happened

513
00:22:57,350 --> 00:22:54,559
now nothing against you personally but

514
00:22:59,190 --> 00:22:57,360
if i were to substitute the skeptics the

515
00:23:01,909 --> 00:22:59,200
debunkers

516
00:23:05,669 --> 00:23:01,919
on your part so in other words are they

517
00:23:07,510 --> 00:23:05,679
doing anything to actually

518
00:23:08,710 --> 00:23:07,520
determine

519
00:23:10,070 --> 00:23:08,720
reason

520
00:23:11,510 --> 00:23:10,080
work out

521
00:23:12,789 --> 00:23:11,520
what happened

522
00:23:14,710 --> 00:23:12,799
or am i

523
00:23:16,950 --> 00:23:14,720
well it's certainly the latter because

524
00:23:19,430 --> 00:23:16,960
the skeptics are telling us what

525
00:23:20,390 --> 00:23:19,440
happened they're telling us that

526
00:23:21,190 --> 00:23:20,400
it's just

527
00:23:24,070 --> 00:23:21,200
this

528
00:23:26,310 --> 00:23:24,080
it's just simply that and no need to go

529
00:23:29,270 --> 00:23:26,320
any further so in other words they

530
00:23:30,070 --> 00:23:29,280
dictate the terms their roshaman effect

531
00:23:33,590 --> 00:23:30,080
is

532
00:23:36,390 --> 00:23:33,600
based strictly on a preconceived theory

533
00:23:37,990 --> 00:23:36,400
that it can't be therefore is it we

534
00:23:40,470 --> 00:23:38,000
aren't being visited

535
00:23:43,830 --> 00:23:40,480
by an intelligence off the planet so

536
00:23:46,310 --> 00:23:43,840
therefore it can't happen and in my case

537
00:23:48,470 --> 00:23:46,320
i'm going wherever the evidence takes me

538
00:23:50,870 --> 00:23:48,480
i am peeling away those layers of the

539
00:23:52,870 --> 00:23:50,880
onion and the and the skeptics are

540
00:23:56,390 --> 00:23:52,880
saying i don't want to see the onion

541
00:23:58,470 --> 00:23:56,400
because i'm afraid that it may present

542
00:23:59,830 --> 00:23:58,480
something i don't want to know i don't

543
00:24:03,669 --> 00:23:59,840
want to see

544
00:24:06,310 --> 00:24:03,679
so who is working as far as more acutely

545
00:24:08,149 --> 00:24:06,320
more as far as diligently in trying to

546
00:24:09,990 --> 00:24:08,159
determine the truth

547
00:24:12,789 --> 00:24:10,000
and my my

548
00:24:15,269 --> 00:24:12,799
premise is that the skeptics never do

549
00:24:17,430 --> 00:24:15,279
anything to establish the truth they

550
00:24:18,390 --> 00:24:17,440
just tell you what they want the truth

551
00:24:20,070 --> 00:24:18,400
to be

552
00:24:23,350 --> 00:24:20,080
yes it's called

553
00:24:26,149 --> 00:24:23,360
resourced by uh research by proclamation

554
00:24:29,669 --> 00:24:26,159
by proclamation precisely and and i'm

555
00:24:32,470 --> 00:24:29,679
sorry i have no time for it and uh it's

556
00:24:35,590 --> 00:24:32,480
amazing how many of our colleagues in

557
00:24:36,789 --> 00:24:35,600
the field just out of laziness out of

558
00:24:39,830 --> 00:24:36,799
investigative

559
00:24:42,070 --> 00:24:39,840
laziness just oh that sounds good to me

560
00:24:44,950 --> 00:24:42,080
so i'll accept that because i don't have

561
00:24:48,390 --> 00:24:44,960
to actually do any deep thinking i don't

562
00:24:52,230 --> 00:24:48,400
have to try to rationalize why is this

563
00:24:55,190 --> 00:24:52,240
why are these facts relevant why are are

564
00:24:57,110 --> 00:24:55,200
these uh testimonies important

565
00:24:58,470 --> 00:24:57,120
and so they take the path of least

566
00:25:00,390 --> 00:24:58,480
resistance

567
00:25:02,630 --> 00:25:00,400
and unfortunately

568
00:25:04,549 --> 00:25:02,640
that's a it's a it's a vast majority of

569
00:25:06,710 --> 00:25:04,559
people in ufology

570
00:25:09,830 --> 00:25:06,720
they just your finger to the wind and

571
00:25:11,669 --> 00:25:09,840
they just okay what do i want to believe

572
00:25:13,110 --> 00:25:11,679
and i'm sorry

573
00:25:21,350 --> 00:25:13,120
they would fail

574
00:25:22,630 --> 00:25:21,360
investigators of any sort in any other

575
00:25:25,990 --> 00:25:22,640
profession

576
00:25:28,870 --> 00:25:26,000
because they are unwilling to do

577
00:25:30,950 --> 00:25:28,880
the gumshoe work the field work of

578
00:25:34,470 --> 00:25:30,960
actually getting up from behind

579
00:25:37,750 --> 00:25:34,480
their keyboard and doing you know

580
00:25:40,830 --> 00:25:37,760
due diligence towards uh on

581
00:25:43,350 --> 00:25:40,840
actually solving a dilemma a problem a

582
00:25:45,669 --> 00:25:43,360
mystery well this much i i definitely

583
00:25:47,430 --> 00:25:45,679
agree with you i call them right click

584
00:25:49,590 --> 00:25:47,440
researchers and

585
00:25:51,830 --> 00:25:49,600
in my own study of a lot of these things

586
00:25:53,909 --> 00:25:51,840
i have been able to find out incredible

587
00:25:55,190 --> 00:25:53,919
things by doing nothing more than pick

588
00:25:57,269 --> 00:25:55,200
up the phone

589
00:26:00,149 --> 00:25:57,279
and i was always amazed why did no one

590
00:26:01,990 --> 00:26:00,159
else find this information

591
00:26:03,830 --> 00:26:02,000
did they just sit on the internet and

592
00:26:05,590 --> 00:26:03,840
since it wasn't on the internet you know

593
00:26:07,510 --> 00:26:05,600
i just picked up the phone anybody can

594
00:26:09,430 --> 00:26:07,520
pick up a phone but it takes time and

595
00:26:10,390 --> 00:26:09,440
energy and dedication and tracking down

596
00:26:12,470 --> 00:26:10,400
leads and

597
00:26:13,430 --> 00:26:12,480
calling and being relentless and you're

598
00:26:15,510 --> 00:26:13,440
right

599
00:26:17,510 --> 00:26:15,520
i i don't see a lot of people doing that

600
00:26:19,830 --> 00:26:17,520
anymore that's why i'm always more

601
00:26:21,669 --> 00:26:19,840
interested in that shall we say more

602
00:26:23,669 --> 00:26:21,679
veteran researchers like yourself and

603
00:26:25,430 --> 00:26:23,679
stan friedman and some other people that

604
00:26:27,590 --> 00:26:25,440
i think really went out there in the

605
00:26:30,390 --> 00:26:27,600
field and did so much we don't see that

606
00:26:31,510 --> 00:26:30,400
today and even stan

607
00:26:33,190 --> 00:26:31,520
he uh

608
00:26:35,669 --> 00:26:33,200
he would have admitted

609
00:26:38,390 --> 00:26:35,679
as long as he was alive he was not an

610
00:26:40,070 --> 00:26:38,400
investigator he was not a researcher he

611
00:26:40,950 --> 00:26:40,080
was an archivist

612
00:26:42,310 --> 00:26:40,960
he

613
00:26:44,070 --> 00:26:42,320
loved

614
00:26:47,350 --> 00:26:44,080
waiting through

615
00:26:48,710 --> 00:26:47,360
reams of documents with the thought that

616
00:26:51,029 --> 00:26:48,720
someday

617
00:26:52,789 --> 00:26:51,039
you know the breakthrough document is

618
00:26:54,630 --> 00:26:52,799
going to jump out and we're going to

619
00:26:57,029 --> 00:26:54,640
have our proof

620
00:26:57,909 --> 00:26:57,039
my partner tom carey would often you

621
00:27:00,230 --> 00:26:57,919
know

622
00:27:02,950 --> 00:27:00,240
describe that one of the hardest things

623
00:27:06,390 --> 00:27:02,960
to do and you just nailed it is actually

624
00:27:07,990 --> 00:27:06,400
picking up a phone and blindly calling a

625
00:27:10,149 --> 00:27:08,000
potential witness

626
00:27:12,149 --> 00:27:10,159
following up on a lead

627
00:27:13,510 --> 00:27:12,159
following up as far as on some

628
00:27:16,470 --> 00:27:13,520
information

629
00:27:17,830 --> 00:27:16,480
and more times than not

630
00:27:19,510 --> 00:27:17,840
it's a dead end

631
00:27:20,789 --> 00:27:19,520
they don't know anything or they're

632
00:27:22,549 --> 00:27:20,799
reluctant

633
00:27:24,389 --> 00:27:22,559
just as many times they're going to slam

634
00:27:26,710 --> 00:27:24,399
the phone down on you they're going to

635
00:27:28,470 --> 00:27:26,720
you know humiliate you to the point that

636
00:27:30,950 --> 00:27:28,480
wow i didn't need that

637
00:27:31,909 --> 00:27:30,960
i've had that happen to me so many times

638
00:27:35,590 --> 00:27:31,919
especially

639
00:27:36,789 --> 00:27:35,600
law enforcement sources precisely and as

640
00:27:40,310 --> 00:27:36,799
a result

641
00:27:44,549 --> 00:27:40,320
it's hard work

642
00:27:47,750 --> 00:27:44,559
it it has no guarantee of success and as

643
00:27:50,389 --> 00:27:47,760
a result again people take the path of

644
00:27:52,470 --> 00:27:50,399
least resistance you know well why don't

645
00:27:54,950 --> 00:27:52,480
i just make up something why don't i

646
00:27:58,389 --> 00:27:54,960
just claim that that's as far as i could

647
00:28:01,510 --> 00:27:58,399
get i i didn't really you know

648
00:28:04,310 --> 00:28:01,520
feel the need to investigate that point

649
00:28:08,310 --> 00:28:04,320
or that story any further so i didn't

650
00:28:10,870 --> 00:28:08,320
pursue it additionally and and i'm sorry

651
00:28:13,990 --> 00:28:10,880
uh even today again tom and i we were

652
00:28:16,070 --> 00:28:14,000
working on some possible witnesses we

653
00:28:18,389 --> 00:28:16,080
were working on that we were making some

654
00:28:20,549 --> 00:28:18,399
phone calls because

655
00:28:23,350 --> 00:28:20,559
uh again there isn't a day that goes by

656
00:28:25,350 --> 00:28:23,360
that we're not working on this

657
00:28:26,149 --> 00:28:25,360
yeah i've always been very impressed

658
00:28:27,510 --> 00:28:26,159
with

659
00:28:29,029 --> 00:28:27,520
you know i've listened to some of your

660
00:28:32,310 --> 00:28:29,039
lectures and some of your other

661
00:28:34,549 --> 00:28:32,320
appearances and just like that

662
00:28:36,950 --> 00:28:34,559
you strike me very similar to me in some

663
00:28:38,470 --> 00:28:36,960
senses like you're gonna go to the mat

664
00:28:40,470 --> 00:28:38,480
you're gonna go to the end of the earth

665
00:28:41,990 --> 00:28:40,480
to find the answer and there's there's

666
00:28:45,269 --> 00:28:42,000
really not many people that are willing

667
00:28:48,310 --> 00:28:45,279
to go that far i wanted to talk to you a

668
00:28:51,750 --> 00:28:48,320
lot of it also stems from the fact that

669
00:28:53,990 --> 00:28:51,760
my father was an army drill sergeant

670
00:28:56,389 --> 00:28:54,000
i mean there was even a special way to

671
00:28:58,549 --> 00:28:56,399
sneeze

672
00:29:00,230 --> 00:28:58,559
you had a military dad too so i can

673
00:29:01,430 --> 00:29:00,240
definitely understand

674
00:29:04,630 --> 00:29:01,440
yeah

675
00:29:06,950 --> 00:29:04,640
and uh my first baseball

676
00:29:09,190 --> 00:29:06,960
trainer because i actually went

677
00:29:11,110 --> 00:29:09,200
my dad was a big baseball coach he also

678
00:29:13,350 --> 00:29:11,120
coached basketball

679
00:29:14,549 --> 00:29:13,360
loved playing hockey

680
00:29:16,710 --> 00:29:14,559
and so

681
00:29:18,549 --> 00:29:16,720
i have five brothers

682
00:29:21,510 --> 00:29:18,559
and four of us

683
00:29:24,389 --> 00:29:21,520
have a lot of sports

684
00:29:25,269 --> 00:29:24,399
drilled into us almost as a

685
00:29:27,269 --> 00:29:25,279
almost

686
00:29:29,590 --> 00:29:27,279
like a military discipline

687
00:29:32,070 --> 00:29:29,600
and my first baseball trainer

688
00:29:34,789 --> 00:29:32,080
was kenny the late kenny kronz and he

689
00:29:37,909 --> 00:29:34,799
played for vince lombardi

690
00:29:41,350 --> 00:29:37,919
so i got to meet all of those players

691
00:29:44,710 --> 00:29:41,360
bart starr and boyd dollar and ray

692
00:29:48,230 --> 00:29:44,720
nitschke and paul horning and so i have

693
00:29:49,190 --> 00:29:48,240
a lot of a lot of lombardi drilled into

694
00:29:52,389 --> 00:29:49,200
me

695
00:29:55,430 --> 00:29:52,399
and what i often

696
00:29:57,190 --> 00:29:55,440
will remark is i don't like to lose and

697
00:29:58,950 --> 00:29:57,200
i don't like to lose

698
00:30:01,269 --> 00:29:58,960
and that's one of the reasons that on

699
00:30:03,909 --> 00:30:01,279
the sports field

700
00:30:06,710 --> 00:30:03,919
i i play to win i don't play to have fun

701
00:30:09,350 --> 00:30:06,720
i play to win because then winning is

702
00:30:11,190 --> 00:30:09,360
fun losing is never fun yeah i agree

703
00:30:15,269 --> 00:30:11,200
it's all the same with my work the same

704
00:30:17,430 --> 00:30:15,279
with my research i'm relentless i i play

705
00:30:19,029 --> 00:30:17,440
to win

706
00:30:20,870 --> 00:30:19,039
you know one of the things that you were

707
00:30:21,830 --> 00:30:20,880
talking about skeptics

708
00:30:24,789 --> 00:30:21,840
one of the things that's always

709
00:30:26,870 --> 00:30:24,799
impressed me about the roswell case is

710
00:30:28,149 --> 00:30:26,880
the number of sort of death bed

711
00:30:30,070 --> 00:30:28,159
confessions

712
00:30:32,149 --> 00:30:30,080
because i just can't imagine that

713
00:30:33,909 --> 00:30:32,159
someone at the twilight of their life

714
00:30:37,269 --> 00:30:33,919
about to die will suddenly make up

715
00:30:38,789 --> 00:30:37,279
stories about ufos and alien bodies and

716
00:30:39,830 --> 00:30:38,799
stuff can you talk about some of the

717
00:30:42,310 --> 00:30:39,840
deathbed

718
00:30:43,909 --> 00:30:42,320
or some of those confessions or

719
00:30:45,269 --> 00:30:43,919
you know some of the revelations that

720
00:30:46,870 --> 00:30:45,279
you had from the people in that

721
00:30:49,430 --> 00:30:46,880
situation because i think it's very

722
00:30:51,669 --> 00:30:49,440
compelling evidence it absolutely is and

723
00:30:54,710 --> 00:30:51,679
in fact it's admissible evidence in a

724
00:30:57,669 --> 00:30:54,720
court of law it is accepted as physical

725
00:31:00,710 --> 00:30:57,679
evidence that the judicial

726
00:31:03,669 --> 00:31:00,720
system the courts have long decided that

727
00:31:07,909 --> 00:31:03,679
people just don't lie they don't

728
00:31:11,029 --> 00:31:07,919
fabricate uh you know anything before

729
00:31:15,110 --> 00:31:11,039
dying it's it's a time that uh very

730
00:31:17,590 --> 00:31:15,120
often you bring a member of the clergy

731
00:31:18,710 --> 00:31:17,600
often a priest to take that last

732
00:31:21,909 --> 00:31:18,720
confession

733
00:31:23,750 --> 00:31:21,919
that last recounting as far as uh of

734
00:31:27,590 --> 00:31:23,760
setting the record straight

735
00:31:29,590 --> 00:31:27,600
and and roswell is is no less different

736
00:31:33,990 --> 00:31:29,600
in that we have

737
00:31:37,269 --> 00:31:34,000
dozens of such testimony to the families

738
00:31:38,950 --> 00:31:37,279
to the spouses to the children where

739
00:31:42,630 --> 00:31:38,960
they confess

740
00:31:46,630 --> 00:31:42,640
within days within hours of passing

741
00:31:48,070 --> 00:31:46,640
exactly what happened and down to a

742
00:31:50,789 --> 00:31:48,080
individual

743
00:31:52,389 --> 00:31:50,799
they invariably taught not only that

744
00:31:55,430 --> 00:31:52,399
roswell is true

745
00:31:57,509 --> 00:31:55,440
not only were their bodies involved but

746
00:32:00,310 --> 00:31:57,519
more and more they've also confessed to

747
00:32:04,149 --> 00:32:00,320
the fact there was a survivor that there

748
00:32:05,590 --> 00:32:04,159
was a living crewman on as far as part

749
00:32:09,269 --> 00:32:05,600
of that crash

750
00:32:11,990 --> 00:32:09,279
uh one good example would be the late

751
00:32:13,110 --> 00:32:12,000
sergeant homer roulette he was a master

752
00:32:15,909 --> 00:32:13,120
sergeant

753
00:32:17,350 --> 00:32:15,919
with the 693rd

754
00:32:18,389 --> 00:32:17,360
and

755
00:32:22,070 --> 00:32:18,399
he was

756
00:32:26,789 --> 00:32:22,080
on a gurney outside of an operating room

757
00:32:29,190 --> 00:32:26,799
just ready just uh getting uh prepared

758
00:32:32,230 --> 00:32:29,200
to undergo open heart surgery

759
00:32:34,950 --> 00:32:32,240
and he waved his daughter karlene over

760
00:32:36,549 --> 00:32:34,960
to the the side of his uh

761
00:32:38,630 --> 00:32:36,559
his gurney

762
00:32:40,549 --> 00:32:38,640
and as she leaned down and even in his

763
00:32:42,870 --> 00:32:40,559
weakened condition

764
00:32:45,509 --> 00:32:42,880
he told her he confessed he said you

765
00:32:48,470 --> 00:32:45,519
know how they talk about that roswell

766
00:32:50,149 --> 00:32:48,480
incident 1947 where your dad was

767
00:32:53,110 --> 00:32:50,159
stationed there

768
00:32:55,110 --> 00:32:53,120
well we confirmed that

769
00:32:57,269 --> 00:32:55,120
he went on and described that he was

770
00:32:59,750 --> 00:32:57,279
part of the recovery operation and then

771
00:33:02,789 --> 00:32:59,760
he saw the ship and he saw all the

772
00:33:04,149 --> 00:33:02,799
bodies and he described the survivor to

773
00:33:07,830 --> 00:33:04,159
her

774
00:33:10,630 --> 00:33:07,840
provost marshall

775
00:33:12,549 --> 00:33:10,640
he retired a lieutenant colonel

776
00:33:14,549 --> 00:33:12,559
his name was edwin easley

777
00:33:17,590 --> 00:33:14,559
he was in charge of all military

778
00:33:20,149 --> 00:33:17,600
security on the base at that time

779
00:33:22,549 --> 00:33:20,159
and when we first spoke to him

780
00:33:25,430 --> 00:33:22,559
in around 1990

781
00:33:27,830 --> 00:33:25,440
he repeatedly responded i can't talk

782
00:33:29,669 --> 00:33:27,840
about it i'm still sworn to secrecy

783
00:33:30,710 --> 00:33:29,679
can't talk about it no matter what we

784
00:33:32,950 --> 00:33:30,720
ask him

785
00:33:34,310 --> 00:33:32,960
can't talk about it still sworn to

786
00:33:35,509 --> 00:33:34,320
secrecy

787
00:33:37,190 --> 00:33:35,519
so

788
00:33:39,750 --> 00:33:37,200
five years later

789
00:33:41,350 --> 00:33:39,760
no excuse me no it was just a couple

790
00:33:44,070 --> 00:33:41,360
years later i'm so i'm thinking of

791
00:33:47,590 --> 00:33:44,080
another one a couple years later he was

792
00:33:48,310 --> 00:33:47,600
dying of cancer at parkland hospital

793
00:33:49,190 --> 00:33:48,320
at

794
00:33:51,269 --> 00:33:49,200
uh

795
00:33:52,789 --> 00:33:51,279
in dallas parkland hospital in dallas

796
00:33:55,190 --> 00:33:52,799
where you're talking about coming full

797
00:33:57,190 --> 00:33:55,200
circle where john f kennedy was

798
00:33:59,590 --> 00:33:57,200
pronounced dead

799
00:34:00,870 --> 00:33:59,600
back in 1963

800
00:34:03,669 --> 00:34:00,880
and

801
00:34:05,269 --> 00:34:03,679
in the presence of his two daughters his

802
00:34:07,190 --> 00:34:05,279
granddaughter

803
00:34:08,310 --> 00:34:07,200
approached his bed

804
00:34:10,149 --> 00:34:08,320
and

805
00:34:13,109 --> 00:34:10,159
held a a gift

806
00:34:13,990 --> 00:34:13,119
a gift up to him to which he responded

807
00:34:16,069 --> 00:34:14,000
oh

808
00:34:18,310 --> 00:34:16,079
the creatures

809
00:34:21,510 --> 00:34:18,320
and he went on to describe roswell maybe

810
00:34:23,909 --> 00:34:21,520
he apologized you to his daughters that

811
00:34:25,990 --> 00:34:23,919
you know it was the president who had

812
00:34:28,470 --> 00:34:26,000
asked me never to say another word about

813
00:34:29,349 --> 00:34:28,480
this for as long as i lived i took an

814
00:34:31,750 --> 00:34:29,359
oath

815
00:34:32,550 --> 00:34:31,760
and i hope you understand

816
00:34:36,230 --> 00:34:32,560
that

817
00:34:38,950 --> 00:34:36,240
i could never admit my involvement but

818
00:34:40,389 --> 00:34:38,960
it did happen it was all true

819
00:34:42,389 --> 00:34:40,399
and uh

820
00:34:43,589 --> 00:34:42,399
indeed we were

821
00:34:46,310 --> 00:34:43,599
visited

822
00:34:48,710 --> 00:34:46,320
by beings from another planet

823
00:34:50,629 --> 00:34:48,720
and i hope you understand and the the

824
00:34:52,550 --> 00:34:50,639
gift that his granddaughter

825
00:34:55,669 --> 00:34:52,560
granddaughter had brought him held up to

826
00:34:58,630 --> 00:34:55,679
his face eliciting that response

827
00:35:01,589 --> 00:34:58,640
was a copy of our our second book truth

828
00:35:03,990 --> 00:35:01,599
about ufo crash at roswell

829
00:35:09,829 --> 00:35:06,390
that's just one of uh again those are

830
00:35:12,150 --> 00:35:09,839
two of many melvin brown was an mp

831
00:35:15,270 --> 00:35:12,160
posted behind an ambulance truck

832
00:35:16,550 --> 00:35:15,280
he was dying in 1985

833
00:35:20,150 --> 00:35:16,560
outside

834
00:35:21,270 --> 00:35:20,160
time

835
00:35:25,589 --> 00:35:21,280
and

836
00:35:27,349 --> 00:35:25,599
two daughters how he was posted behind

837
00:35:30,069 --> 00:35:27,359
an ambulance truck

838
00:35:31,670 --> 00:35:30,079
told to keep his eyes forward and the

839
00:35:32,550 --> 00:35:31,680
first chance he got

840
00:35:38,710 --> 00:35:32,560
he

841
00:35:40,390 --> 00:35:38,720
and much to his shock

842
00:35:42,069 --> 00:35:40,400
he realized that all the rumors

843
00:35:44,710 --> 00:35:42,079
everything that he had heard back at the

844
00:35:46,470 --> 00:35:44,720
base were absolutely correct that indeed

845
00:35:47,510 --> 00:35:46,480
it was the crash of a genuine flying

846
00:35:48,710 --> 00:35:47,520
saucer

847
00:35:51,270 --> 00:35:48,720
so

848
00:35:52,069 --> 00:35:51,280
we could go on and on and on and for

849
00:35:55,670 --> 00:35:52,079
the

850
00:35:57,109 --> 00:35:55,680
talk nothing but death beds sure and

851
00:35:58,710 --> 00:35:57,119
this is this is one of the things that

852
00:36:01,109 --> 00:35:58,720
gets me when people say well there's no

853
00:36:03,190 --> 00:36:01,119
evidence i said well you haven't looked

854
00:36:05,430 --> 00:36:03,200
at it you know you really haven't looked

855
00:36:07,670 --> 00:36:05,440
at it it's there they have looked at it

856
00:36:10,150 --> 00:36:07,680
they haven't paid any attention i got in

857
00:36:12,310 --> 00:36:10,160
a bit of a debate with someone just a

858
00:36:15,349 --> 00:36:12,320
few weeks ago again and he was even

859
00:36:17,589 --> 00:36:15,359
dismissing the death beds well you know

860
00:36:19,750 --> 00:36:17,599
just because they they talk about this

861
00:36:22,069 --> 00:36:19,760
before they die doesn't mean anything

862
00:36:23,910 --> 00:36:22,079
and i just threw right back in them so

863
00:36:26,550 --> 00:36:23,920
so what you're telling me is that death

864
00:36:28,790 --> 00:36:26,560
beds are not reliable well no no no

865
00:36:31,190 --> 00:36:28,800
they're they're reliable that's why

866
00:36:34,950 --> 00:36:31,200
they're held up as as far as in such

867
00:36:36,630 --> 00:36:34,960
high regard in a courtroom so it only is

868
00:36:38,870 --> 00:36:36,640
because they talk about roswell that

869
00:36:41,109 --> 00:36:38,880
disqualifies them well i'm not saying

870
00:36:42,630 --> 00:36:41,119
that well no you are saying that

871
00:36:45,030 --> 00:36:42,640
so in other words if we're gonna if

872
00:36:47,270 --> 00:36:45,040
we're going to throw out roswell and if

873
00:36:49,270 --> 00:36:47,280
roswell is going to be disqualified then

874
00:36:51,430 --> 00:36:49,280
we're going to disqualify all deathbed

875
00:36:53,510 --> 00:36:51,440
testimonies and that's ridiculous that's

876
00:36:55,990 --> 00:36:53,520
nonsense because we're not doing that

877
00:36:58,470 --> 00:36:56,000
but according to this witness this per i

878
00:37:00,470 --> 00:36:58,480
should say this researcher it's because

879
00:37:03,109 --> 00:37:00,480
they're about roswell so that

880
00:37:06,310 --> 00:37:03,119
disqualifies them so there again is our

881
00:37:08,069 --> 00:37:06,320
roshaman effect i will tell you what

882
00:37:09,270 --> 00:37:08,079
to believe i will tell you what is

883
00:37:11,670 --> 00:37:09,280
acceptable

884
00:37:14,230 --> 00:37:11,680
and to me that's the ultimate arrogance

885
00:37:15,190 --> 00:37:14,240
on their part the ultimate big brother

886
00:37:15,990 --> 00:37:15,200
saying

887
00:37:18,390 --> 00:37:16,000
uh

888
00:37:20,310 --> 00:37:18,400
you know don't don't don't look behind

889
00:37:21,030 --> 00:37:20,320
you know the curtain you know listen to

890
00:37:22,630 --> 00:37:21,040
uh

891
00:37:24,550 --> 00:37:22,640
the voice instead

892
00:37:26,310 --> 00:37:24,560
yeah absolutely you know one of the

893
00:37:27,030 --> 00:37:26,320
other things i really wanted to ask you

894
00:37:31,910 --> 00:37:27,040
is

895
00:37:34,390 --> 00:37:31,920
been chasing the undertaker yes and i

896
00:37:36,790 --> 00:37:34,400
wanted to know is there any living

897
00:37:39,109 --> 00:37:36,800
witnesses left or have they all passed

898
00:37:42,150 --> 00:37:39,119
now and where are you at with with

899
00:37:45,430 --> 00:37:42,160
first-hand witnesses

900
00:37:48,069 --> 00:37:45,440
the undertaker has just about won

901
00:37:49,190 --> 00:37:48,079
we are on the one-inch uh

902
00:37:53,430 --> 00:37:49,200
line

903
00:37:55,670 --> 00:37:53,440
and uh last count we have five

904
00:37:58,150 --> 00:37:55,680
five living firsthand

905
00:38:00,870 --> 00:37:58,160
and uh that will

906
00:38:03,270 --> 00:38:00,880
you know certainly go to four three two

907
00:38:07,190 --> 00:38:03,280
and then finally man

908
00:38:10,310 --> 00:38:07,200
but again we have interviewed over 600

909
00:38:13,829 --> 00:38:10,320
witnesses either directly or indirectly

910
00:38:15,990 --> 00:38:13,839
involved to the events of 1947

911
00:38:18,550 --> 00:38:16,000
and they paint this mosaic they paint

912
00:38:20,950 --> 00:38:18,560
this picture and what's amazing is that

913
00:38:22,870 --> 00:38:20,960
it doesn't matter if they're civilian it

914
00:38:25,670 --> 00:38:22,880
doesn't matter if they're military

915
00:38:28,950 --> 00:38:25,680
they're all reading from the same script

916
00:38:32,150 --> 00:38:28,960
they're all talking about the same event

917
00:38:34,950 --> 00:38:32,160
they all responded extraordinarily

918
00:38:37,270 --> 00:38:34,960
to an extraordinary event

919
00:38:40,390 --> 00:38:37,280
and the fact that both military and

920
00:38:44,390 --> 00:38:40,400
civilian would be on the same page to

921
00:38:47,430 --> 00:38:44,400
one incident in itself is amazing

922
00:38:51,270 --> 00:38:47,440
and again it's just one more stroke in

923
00:38:53,829 --> 00:38:51,280
the uh favorable column for roswell the

924
00:38:54,710 --> 00:38:53,839
fact that um no matter

925
00:38:56,470 --> 00:38:54,720
who

926
00:38:59,589 --> 00:38:56,480
we've interviewed no matter what the

927
00:39:02,150 --> 00:38:59,599
witness first second third hand

928
00:39:05,349 --> 00:39:02,160
they all provide information

929
00:39:06,230 --> 00:39:05,359
that corroborates everything else that

930
00:39:08,230 --> 00:39:06,240
we've

931
00:39:10,230 --> 00:39:08,240
accumulated here for

932
00:39:11,990 --> 00:39:10,240
yeah it's like one big puzzle piece but

933
00:39:13,750 --> 00:39:12,000
the pieces are coming together if you

934
00:39:15,190 --> 00:39:13,760
look if you step back and look at the

935
00:39:19,349 --> 00:39:15,200
puzzle

936
00:39:22,710 --> 00:39:19,359
pieces conflict with one another that

937
00:39:23,750 --> 00:39:22,720
that's what just boggles my mind that it

938
00:39:26,470 --> 00:39:23,760
isn't

939
00:39:27,430 --> 00:39:26,480
you know i have a a good relationship

940
00:39:31,990 --> 00:39:27,440
he's

941
00:39:33,990 --> 00:39:32,000
specializes in the manhattan project

942
00:39:36,150 --> 00:39:34,000
john custer mullen

943
00:39:38,950 --> 00:39:36,160
and the 509th bomb group the first

944
00:39:41,750 --> 00:39:38,960
atomic bomb squadron and

945
00:39:43,990 --> 00:39:41,760
he's done books on the atomic bomb and

946
00:39:46,310 --> 00:39:44,000
its entire development and

947
00:39:48,310 --> 00:39:46,320
deployment that type of thing

948
00:39:49,670 --> 00:39:48,320
and and

949
00:39:52,390 --> 00:39:49,680
john would often

950
00:39:55,670 --> 00:39:52,400
remind me that don you know

951
00:39:59,030 --> 00:39:55,680
i've had a lot of people who claimed

952
00:40:00,390 --> 00:39:59,040
that they were on either the enola gate

953
00:40:03,430 --> 00:40:00,400
or boxcar

954
00:40:05,990 --> 00:40:03,440
the two atomic the two b-29s

955
00:40:09,109 --> 00:40:06,000
which dropped the little boy in fat man

956
00:40:11,270 --> 00:40:09,119
yeah in japan sure where japan nagasaki

957
00:40:13,030 --> 00:40:11,280
hiroshima ending world war ii

958
00:40:16,069 --> 00:40:13,040
and i would always then come back and

959
00:40:17,589 --> 00:40:16,079
i'd say well it doesn't in any way

960
00:40:19,270 --> 00:40:17,599
diminish

961
00:40:21,829 --> 00:40:19,280
the fact that

962
00:40:25,109 --> 00:40:21,839
there were two b-29 bombers there were

963
00:40:26,950 --> 00:40:25,119
two bombs dropped on japan i mean

964
00:40:29,030 --> 00:40:26,960
historically the

965
00:40:31,030 --> 00:40:29,040
the events took place

966
00:40:33,030 --> 00:40:31,040
just as with roswell

967
00:40:35,750 --> 00:40:33,040
but the difference

968
00:40:38,069 --> 00:40:35,760
i don't have any witnesses that say no

969
00:40:40,390 --> 00:40:38,079
you weren't on that flight i was on that

970
00:40:42,550 --> 00:40:40,400
flight no you didn't pilot that plane i

971
00:40:45,109 --> 00:40:42,560
pilot that plane no you weren't out at

972
00:40:48,069 --> 00:40:45,119
the debris field i was out there no you

973
00:40:49,910 --> 00:40:48,079
weren't at the base hospital i was there

974
00:40:53,990 --> 00:40:49,920
they all

975
00:40:54,950 --> 00:40:54,000
pieced themselves into that puzzle

976
00:40:58,390 --> 00:40:54,960
and

977
00:40:59,589 --> 00:40:58,400
they all continue to provide you know

978
00:41:00,790 --> 00:40:59,599
detail

979
00:41:03,270 --> 00:41:00,800
of

980
00:41:05,270 --> 00:41:03,280
that entire mosaic as you yourself

981
00:41:07,990 --> 00:41:05,280
describe it and

982
00:41:09,109 --> 00:41:08,000
i mean i can tell you exactly who the

983
00:41:11,270 --> 00:41:09,119
men were

984
00:41:14,790 --> 00:41:11,280
gathering up the wreckage i can tell you

985
00:41:15,589 --> 00:41:14,800
the truck drivers who drove the wreckage

986
00:41:18,230 --> 00:41:15,599
to

987
00:41:21,430 --> 00:41:18,240
the base and then return with an empty

988
00:41:23,750 --> 00:41:21,440
truck i can tell you who received it at

989
00:41:26,950 --> 00:41:23,760
the hangar i can tell you who were who

990
00:41:30,069 --> 00:41:26,960
were guards posted at the hangar i can

991
00:41:32,790 --> 00:41:30,079
tell you who were on the special flights

992
00:41:35,990 --> 00:41:32,800
transporting the wreckage i can tell you

993
00:41:39,030 --> 00:41:36,000
who drove the ambulance trucks and then

994
00:41:41,510 --> 00:41:39,040
who transported the bodies from two

995
00:41:44,069 --> 00:41:41,520
different locations i can tell you who

996
00:41:46,870 --> 00:41:44,079
were posted at the bay's hospital who

997
00:41:50,710 --> 00:41:46,880
were in the in the examination rooms who

998
00:41:53,750 --> 00:41:50,720
were in the hallways who then were

999
00:41:57,510 --> 00:41:53,760
the people who crated up

1000
00:41:59,990 --> 00:41:57,520
the bodies and then who flew them out

1001
00:42:01,670 --> 00:42:00,000
and where they went on and on and on so

1002
00:42:02,790 --> 00:42:01,680
in other words

1003
00:42:05,349 --> 00:42:02,800
if

1004
00:42:08,069 --> 00:42:05,359
again we had our day in court

1005
00:42:11,349 --> 00:42:08,079
and all these witnesses were still alive

1006
00:42:13,430 --> 00:42:11,359
we could call them up one by one from

1007
00:42:16,150 --> 00:42:13,440
the very rancher brazo who first

1008
00:42:18,630 --> 00:42:16,160
discovers the debris field and then his

1009
00:42:21,510 --> 00:42:18,640
neighbors who he first contacted the

1010
00:42:24,470 --> 00:42:21,520
children who were also involved the

1011
00:42:29,190 --> 00:42:24,480
neighbors who then went you know who

1012
00:42:30,390 --> 00:42:29,200
took the time to drop tens of miles

1013
00:42:33,190 --> 00:42:30,400
cross country

1014
00:42:36,069 --> 00:42:33,200
to go investigate this explore this for

1015
00:42:37,990 --> 00:42:36,079
themselves the state police officers who

1016
00:42:40,230 --> 00:42:38,000
were involved then

1017
00:42:43,589 --> 00:42:40,240
leading to roswell and the sheriff the

1018
00:42:45,589 --> 00:42:43,599
deputies the firemen the crew chiefs and

1019
00:42:48,710 --> 00:42:45,599
then contacting the roswell army

1020
00:42:51,589 --> 00:42:48,720
airfield the base commander major jesse

1021
00:42:53,030 --> 00:42:51,599
marcel the intelligence officer captain

1022
00:42:55,190 --> 00:42:53,040
sheridan cabot the head of

1023
00:42:57,910 --> 00:42:55,200
counterintelligence his uh

1024
00:43:00,069 --> 00:42:57,920
non-commissioned officer louis wicked on

1025
00:43:01,589 --> 00:43:00,079
and on and on just hundreds and hundreds

1026
00:43:03,750 --> 00:43:01,599
of people

1027
00:43:07,270 --> 00:43:03,760
and they do not conflict with one

1028
00:43:08,630 --> 00:43:07,280
another they're all describing the same

1029
00:43:11,750 --> 00:43:08,640
event

1030
00:43:12,950 --> 00:43:11,760
and again they're reading from the same

1031
00:43:14,390 --> 00:43:12,960
script

1032
00:43:17,030 --> 00:43:14,400
and it all

1033
00:43:19,270 --> 00:43:17,040
points to people who experience

1034
00:43:21,750 --> 00:43:19,280
something profound

1035
00:43:24,390 --> 00:43:21,760
something extraordinary

1036
00:43:26,309 --> 00:43:24,400
something like the kennedy assassination

1037
00:43:29,910 --> 00:43:26,319
who for the rest of their lives

1038
00:43:32,069 --> 00:43:29,920
remembered exactly what they did where

1039
00:43:35,829 --> 00:43:32,079
they were what they were thinking at the

1040
00:43:38,790 --> 00:43:35,839
time because it was something well

1041
00:43:41,030 --> 00:43:38,800
beyond the mundane because i can assure

1042
00:43:42,870 --> 00:43:41,040
you stephen if this were mundane if this

1043
00:43:46,390 --> 00:43:42,880
were just a balloon

1044
00:43:49,109 --> 00:43:46,400
mogul or any other type of device of

1045
00:43:50,470 --> 00:43:49,119
that sort it would have been a yawner it

1046
00:43:53,190 --> 00:43:50,480
would have been

1047
00:43:56,150 --> 00:43:53,200
here today gone tomorrow

1048
00:43:59,109 --> 00:43:56,160
no big deal nothing to see here

1049
00:44:01,349 --> 00:43:59,119
and the exact opposite is true

1050
00:44:03,109 --> 00:44:01,359
yeah and you know

1051
00:44:05,030 --> 00:44:03,119
i think one of the misconceptions that

1052
00:44:06,550 --> 00:44:05,040
many people that haven't looked into it

1053
00:44:08,309 --> 00:44:06,560
deeply

1054
00:44:10,150 --> 00:44:08,319
i wanted to ask you about the two

1055
00:44:12,150 --> 00:44:10,160
different crash sites because that's

1056
00:44:14,390 --> 00:44:12,160
something that a lot of people miss

1057
00:44:16,230 --> 00:44:14,400
but there was there was not just one

1058
00:44:18,710 --> 00:44:16,240
crash site there was two can you tell my

1059
00:44:22,710 --> 00:44:21,510
actually there were there were four

1060
00:44:24,950 --> 00:44:22,720
okay

1061
00:44:26,150 --> 00:44:24,960
because uh and let's start with the very

1062
00:44:28,069 --> 00:44:26,160
first one

1063
00:44:29,670 --> 00:44:28,079
and it was a site that was discovered

1064
00:44:32,950 --> 00:44:29,680
months later

1065
00:44:33,990 --> 00:44:32,960
when dr lincoln lapaz the famous meteor

1066
00:44:36,870 --> 00:44:34,000
expert

1067
00:44:39,510 --> 00:44:36,880
who was part of the manhattan project

1068
00:44:41,829 --> 00:44:39,520
he uh was briefed in washington he

1069
00:44:43,109 --> 00:44:41,839
arrived in roswell in september two

1070
00:44:46,470 --> 00:44:43,119
months later

1071
00:44:50,470 --> 00:44:46,480
and his assignment was to determine the

1072
00:44:52,870 --> 00:44:50,480
speed and trajectory of this object

1073
00:44:54,309 --> 00:44:52,880
well again a balloon doesn't have speed

1074
00:44:56,309 --> 00:44:54,319
and trajectory

1075
00:44:57,990 --> 00:44:56,319
so that in itself

1076
00:45:01,109 --> 00:44:58,000
cancels out any

1077
00:45:03,270 --> 00:45:01,119
notion this was a balloon of any sort

1078
00:45:05,910 --> 00:45:03,280
and the one person who was assigned to

1079
00:45:08,950 --> 00:45:05,920
assist him out in the field

1080
00:45:11,430 --> 00:45:08,960
was master sergeant louis rickett of

1081
00:45:14,069 --> 00:45:11,440
counterintelligence corps

1082
00:45:15,030 --> 00:45:14,079
and rickett spent three weeks in the

1083
00:45:19,109 --> 00:45:15,040
field

1084
00:45:21,030 --> 00:45:19,119
with lapaz even rickett's wife mack

1085
00:45:23,349 --> 00:45:21,040
verified that

1086
00:45:24,150 --> 00:45:23,359
and according to rickett

1087
00:45:25,190 --> 00:45:24,160
they

1088
00:45:28,870 --> 00:45:25,200
found

1089
00:45:32,069 --> 00:45:28,880
a touchdown site about five miles north

1090
00:45:35,349 --> 00:45:32,079
of the debris field where the ground was

1091
00:45:37,829 --> 00:45:35,359
crystallized it was baked

1092
00:45:40,550 --> 00:45:37,839
it turned the glass

1093
00:45:42,069 --> 00:45:40,560
and they found more debris

1094
00:45:44,230 --> 00:45:42,079
at that site

1095
00:45:47,589 --> 00:45:44,240
and they also found what rickett

1096
00:45:48,710 --> 00:45:47,599
described was a seamless

1097
00:45:50,470 --> 00:45:48,720
weightless

1098
00:45:52,710 --> 00:45:50,480
black box

1099
00:45:56,390 --> 00:45:52,720
about the size of a bread box

1100
00:45:59,510 --> 00:45:56,400
but it was something also located and

1101
00:46:02,150 --> 00:45:59,520
then recovered at that site

1102
00:46:03,750 --> 00:46:02,160
according to rickett

1103
00:46:05,910 --> 00:46:03,760
who

1104
00:46:08,870 --> 00:46:05,920
in discussing

1105
00:46:09,910 --> 00:46:08,880
his final synopsis what he believed

1106
00:46:13,109 --> 00:46:09,920
happened

1107
00:46:15,510 --> 00:46:13,119
lapaz in his final report that he sent

1108
00:46:18,230 --> 00:46:15,520
to washington

1109
00:46:19,910 --> 00:46:18,240
he surmised that

1110
00:46:21,030 --> 00:46:19,920
the object

1111
00:46:24,870 --> 00:46:21,040
developed

1112
00:46:28,630 --> 00:46:24,880
trouble it was having difficulty

1113
00:46:29,990 --> 00:46:28,640
and it touched down at that location

1114
00:46:33,829 --> 00:46:30,000
and then

1115
00:46:35,990 --> 00:46:33,839
as it attempted to lift off

1116
00:46:37,030 --> 00:46:36,000
and after it reached a

1117
00:46:38,710 --> 00:46:37,040
certain

1118
00:46:41,910 --> 00:46:38,720
altitude

1119
00:46:42,870 --> 00:46:41,920
either it was struck by lightning or it

1120
00:46:43,990 --> 00:46:42,880
had

1121
00:46:55,270 --> 00:46:44,000
a

1122
00:46:56,790 --> 00:46:55,280
explode

1123
00:46:58,150 --> 00:46:56,800
and it rained

1124
00:46:59,270 --> 00:46:58,160
debris

1125
00:47:01,190 --> 00:46:59,280
at the

1126
00:47:03,190 --> 00:47:01,200
second site

1127
00:47:06,390 --> 00:47:03,200
the debris field

1128
00:47:09,349 --> 00:47:06,400
of a swat of wreckage of almost nine

1129
00:47:11,829 --> 00:47:09,359
tenths of a mile long

1130
00:47:13,510 --> 00:47:11,839
that much debris yeah and whether or not

1131
00:47:14,630 --> 00:47:13,520
we would not make that much debris

1132
00:47:16,309 --> 00:47:14,640
that's one of the points that's

1133
00:47:17,990 --> 00:47:16,319
important whether it's

1134
00:47:20,230 --> 00:47:18,000
not make anywhere near that amount of

1135
00:47:22,069 --> 00:47:20,240
debris or require how many people were

1136
00:47:23,190 --> 00:47:22,079
involved in recovering all that debris

1137
00:47:24,630 --> 00:47:23,200
because that's another thing it would

1138
00:47:26,950 --> 00:47:24,640
take a couple of guys to pick up a

1139
00:47:28,790 --> 00:47:26,960
weather balloon right not

1140
00:47:31,829 --> 00:47:28,800
one guy one guy could have gathered it

1141
00:47:36,390 --> 00:47:31,839
up and tossed in the trunk of a car

1142
00:47:38,630 --> 00:47:36,400
whereas this debris field we required 50

1143
00:47:40,230 --> 00:47:38,640
to 60 troops

1144
00:47:43,670 --> 00:47:40,240
three full

1145
00:47:45,910 --> 00:47:43,680
days to recover

1146
00:47:46,870 --> 00:47:45,920
and as they were instructed if it didn't

1147
00:47:48,150 --> 00:47:46,880
move

1148
00:47:50,630 --> 00:47:48,160
beg it

1149
00:47:52,950 --> 00:47:50,640
they gathered up everything they swept

1150
00:47:55,990 --> 00:47:52,960
and they vacuumed that site

1151
00:47:57,910 --> 00:47:56,000
even with industrial equipment to make

1152
00:47:59,349 --> 00:47:57,920
sure they had every last piece of

1153
00:48:02,670 --> 00:47:59,359
physical evidence

1154
00:48:05,190 --> 00:48:02,680
so it's moving in an easterly

1155
00:48:08,230 --> 00:48:05,200
southeasterly direction

1156
00:48:09,750 --> 00:48:08,240
the explosion it rains debris covering

1157
00:48:13,990 --> 00:48:09,760
that site

1158
00:48:17,510 --> 00:48:14,000
two bodies were recovered atop a bluff

1159
00:48:19,750 --> 00:48:17,520
two and a half miles east southeast of

1160
00:48:21,030 --> 00:48:19,760
the debris field

1161
00:48:24,870 --> 00:48:21,040
and then

1162
00:48:26,710 --> 00:48:24,880
another 25 miles from there still along

1163
00:48:32,950 --> 00:48:26,720
that trajectory

1164
00:48:35,750 --> 00:48:32,960
35 to 45 mile 40 miles north of roswell

1165
00:48:38,470 --> 00:48:35,760
a pod a capsule

1166
00:48:40,630 --> 00:48:38,480
size of a volkswagen beetle

1167
00:48:44,630 --> 00:48:40,640
egg-shaped

1168
00:48:47,030 --> 00:48:44,640
was discovered at the final impact site

1169
00:48:50,150 --> 00:48:47,040
and where two additional bodies were

1170
00:48:52,470 --> 00:48:50,160
recovered and a survivor

1171
00:48:54,069 --> 00:48:52,480
so a touchdown

1172
00:49:06,870 --> 00:48:54,079
a

1173
00:49:10,069 --> 00:49:06,880
four

1174
00:49:11,910 --> 00:49:10,079
areas connected to one object

1175
00:49:14,069 --> 00:49:11,920
but nonetheless

1176
00:49:15,430 --> 00:49:14,079
four specific

1177
00:49:17,990 --> 00:49:15,440
uh

1178
00:49:20,470 --> 00:49:18,000
locations connected to

1179
00:49:23,030 --> 00:49:20,480
one object one event

1180
00:49:25,829 --> 00:49:23,040
and that in itself also would rule out

1181
00:49:28,549 --> 00:49:25,839
any type of weather balloon device which

1182
00:49:33,349 --> 00:49:28,559
hardly creates multiple sites

1183
00:49:37,349 --> 00:49:35,349
yes that's that's what's always gotten

1184
00:49:39,190 --> 00:49:37,359
me the other thing that's always got me

1185
00:49:40,870 --> 00:49:39,200
about the weather balloon explanation or

1186
00:49:42,870 --> 00:49:40,880
the mogul explanation is that this was

1187
00:49:44,870 --> 00:49:42,880
the 509th the only

1188
00:49:46,390 --> 00:49:44,880
that you know they had nuclear weapons

1189
00:49:48,150 --> 00:49:46,400
these guys

1190
00:49:50,309 --> 00:49:48,160
they they would know a weather balloon

1191
00:49:51,750 --> 00:49:50,319
they seen them taking off didn't they

1192
00:49:54,470 --> 00:49:51,760
didn't those guys see weather balloons

1193
00:49:57,990 --> 00:49:54,480
taking off from that base all the time

1194
00:50:00,150 --> 00:49:58,000
they themselves launched them sure

1195
00:50:02,549 --> 00:50:00,160
from the base in conjunction with their

1196
00:50:05,190 --> 00:50:02,559
bomb drop exercises

1197
00:50:07,109 --> 00:50:05,200
on a daily basis they launched them as

1198
00:50:09,829 --> 00:50:07,119
officers twice a day

1199
00:50:12,309 --> 00:50:09,839
even from atop the downtown bank

1200
00:50:15,349 --> 00:50:12,319
building which was the highest uh

1201
00:50:17,349 --> 00:50:15,359
building in in roswell at that time

1202
00:50:20,710 --> 00:50:17,359
there's even pictures in the base

1203
00:50:24,309 --> 00:50:20,720
yearbook of the balloons suspended from

1204
00:50:27,109 --> 00:50:24,319
rafters in a hangar because they were

1205
00:50:29,349 --> 00:50:27,119
also assembled there so

1206
00:50:31,510 --> 00:50:29,359
they were not only familiar with the

1207
00:50:34,710 --> 00:50:31,520
very balloons in question

1208
00:50:36,069 --> 00:50:34,720
but as you mentioned stephen uh you know

1209
00:50:37,990 --> 00:50:36,079
these were

1210
00:50:40,870 --> 00:50:38,000
the men who were in charge of the atomic

1211
00:50:43,349 --> 00:50:40,880
bomb they were the elite in the military

1212
00:50:45,430 --> 00:50:43,359
at that time they were selected to be

1213
00:50:48,470 --> 00:50:45,440
part of the 509th

1214
00:50:51,030 --> 00:50:48,480
bomb group because they were the best

1215
00:50:54,549 --> 00:50:51,040
officers they were the best pilots

1216
00:50:57,109 --> 00:50:54,559
crewmen doctors nurses they all had a

1217
00:51:01,109 --> 00:50:57,119
top security clearance if you swept the

1218
00:51:03,030 --> 00:51:01,119
broom on that base back in july 1947

1219
00:51:05,109 --> 00:51:03,040
not only did you have a top security

1220
00:51:08,950 --> 00:51:05,119
clearance but you also were the best

1221
00:51:11,910 --> 00:51:08,960
sweeper in the military back in 1947 and

1222
00:51:14,710 --> 00:51:11,920
the very notion the very idea that you

1223
00:51:17,270 --> 00:51:14,720
would not have recognized off the shelf

1224
00:51:18,390 --> 00:51:17,280
material rubber

1225
00:51:19,829 --> 00:51:18,400
foil

1226
00:51:22,790 --> 00:51:19,839
wooden sticks

1227
00:51:25,109 --> 00:51:22,800
string and tape material that your

1228
00:51:26,710 --> 00:51:25,119
grandmother on her death bed would still

1229
00:51:29,670 --> 00:51:26,720
recognize

1230
00:51:32,549 --> 00:51:29,680
and that's the disconnect and the point

1231
00:51:36,150 --> 00:51:32,559
being that after all these years i can't

1232
00:51:39,109 --> 00:51:36,160
believe how many colleagues in the field

1233
00:51:41,670 --> 00:51:39,119
still go well the air force says it was

1234
00:51:43,829 --> 00:51:41,680
a balloon good enough for me

1235
00:51:45,589 --> 00:51:43,839
yeah and the other thing is the shifting

1236
00:51:49,030 --> 00:51:45,599
explanations because i mean the first

1237
00:51:50,790 --> 00:51:49,040
explanation we captured a flying saucer

1238
00:51:53,109 --> 00:51:50,800
and the second explanation no it was

1239
00:51:55,190 --> 00:51:53,119
just a weather balloon and then we have

1240
00:51:57,030 --> 00:51:55,200
the third explanation with the mogul and

1241
00:51:59,510 --> 00:51:57,040
and the one that really gets me is the

1242
00:52:01,270 --> 00:51:59,520
dummies that sort of they use to explain

1243
00:52:02,710 --> 00:52:01,280
the body but didn't that happen like 10

1244
00:52:05,030 --> 00:52:02,720
years later they were doing those

1245
00:52:06,950 --> 00:52:05,040
experiments with the dummies uh five

1246
00:52:09,670 --> 00:52:06,960
years later

1247
00:52:11,589 --> 00:52:09,680
yeah the anthropomorphic

1248
00:52:14,230 --> 00:52:11,599
wooden crash dummies

1249
00:52:15,109 --> 00:52:14,240
and after anthropomorphic and that they

1250
00:52:17,750 --> 00:52:15,119
had

1251
00:52:19,990 --> 00:52:17,760
human characteristics but nonetheless

1252
00:52:23,109 --> 00:52:20,000
they were six feet tall

1253
00:52:25,910 --> 00:52:23,119
they would be wearing jumpsuits and

1254
00:52:29,270 --> 00:52:25,920
harnesses and a parachute because they

1255
00:52:32,630 --> 00:52:29,280
were used in high altitude test drops

1256
00:52:34,870 --> 00:52:32,640
there were two projects called uh height

1257
00:52:36,470 --> 00:52:34,880
operation high dive and the other one

1258
00:52:39,910 --> 00:52:36,480
excelsior

1259
00:52:42,950 --> 00:52:39,920
and they didn't originate until 1952.

1260
00:52:44,710 --> 00:52:42,960
yeah so big problem with the time frame

1261
00:52:46,630 --> 00:52:44,720
there and they think that people just

1262
00:52:49,589 --> 00:52:46,640
you know sort of confused the two

1263
00:52:51,510 --> 00:52:49,599
separate events into one or the the

1264
00:52:54,390 --> 00:52:51,520
whole government explanation to me is

1265
00:52:56,230 --> 00:52:54,400
crazy it is crazy what's also crazy is

1266
00:52:57,990 --> 00:52:56,240
that people tell me well why would the

1267
00:53:00,390 --> 00:52:58,000
government lie they wouldn't they they

1268
00:53:01,910 --> 00:53:00,400
don't do that i mean just look up

1269
00:53:03,910 --> 00:53:01,920
yeah

1270
00:53:06,710 --> 00:53:03,920
how naive could we be why would the

1271
00:53:08,950 --> 00:53:06,720
government lie oh please

1272
00:53:12,470 --> 00:53:08,960
i mean the government that's what it

1273
00:53:14,790 --> 00:53:12,480
does that's all it does because it's a

1274
00:53:17,589 --> 00:53:14,800
case of getting re-elected it's it's

1275
00:53:20,069 --> 00:53:17,599
being in a perpetual campaign mode and

1276
00:53:21,829 --> 00:53:20,079
anyone who has served in the military

1277
00:53:24,230 --> 00:53:21,839
and anyone who has served in

1278
00:53:26,710 --> 00:53:24,240
intelligence to be an intelligence

1279
00:53:29,510 --> 00:53:26,720
officer means you're the biggest bser on

1280
00:53:31,349 --> 00:53:29,520
the base you speak in circles you're not

1281
00:53:34,470 --> 00:53:31,359
going to give away any secrets so all

1282
00:53:37,109 --> 00:53:34,480
you do is lie all you do is give uh

1283
00:53:41,109 --> 00:53:37,119
disinformation and misinformation

1284
00:53:43,109 --> 00:53:41,119
i mean and i i i i laugh because again

1285
00:53:45,109 --> 00:53:43,119
when people why would the government lie

1286
00:53:46,950 --> 00:53:45,119
well are you that

1287
00:53:48,710 --> 00:53:46,960
nike

1288
00:53:51,270 --> 00:53:48,720
yeah i always bring up the gulf of

1289
00:53:52,710 --> 00:53:51,280
tonkin and the iraq war if people say

1290
00:53:54,549 --> 00:53:52,720
you know come on exactly all you have to

1291
00:53:55,990 --> 00:53:54,559
do is look at those two examples and

1292
00:53:57,910 --> 00:53:56,000
those are just two we could find a

1293
00:53:59,990 --> 00:53:57,920
hundred more if we look

1294
00:54:02,790 --> 00:54:00,000
you know so the the notion that they

1295
00:54:03,990 --> 00:54:02,800
wouldn't lie or didn't lie is crazy and

1296
00:54:06,470 --> 00:54:04,000
i love this

1297
00:54:08,630 --> 00:54:06,480
or the the the report roswell case

1298
00:54:11,030 --> 00:54:08,640
closed and i remember when i came out

1299
00:54:12,630 --> 00:54:11,040
thinking i don't think so

1300
00:54:14,630 --> 00:54:12,640
you know and then

1301
00:54:16,790 --> 00:54:14,640
one of the the let us think of this

1302
00:54:19,829 --> 00:54:16,800
scenario for a moment

1303
00:54:23,430 --> 00:54:19,839
the the main author of roswell case

1304
00:54:25,910 --> 00:54:23,440
closed which was uh and that was after

1305
00:54:27,990 --> 00:54:25,920
the the mogul report when

1306
00:54:30,470 --> 00:54:28,000
colonel richard weaver at the pentagon

1307
00:54:33,270 --> 00:54:30,480
you know assured all of us

1308
00:54:36,630 --> 00:54:33,280
that it was the final word on the

1309
00:54:39,190 --> 00:54:36,640
incident that there would be no need to

1310
00:54:42,150 --> 00:54:39,200
uh you know even address the situation

1311
00:54:43,750 --> 00:54:42,160
address the the incident ever again well

1312
00:54:44,870 --> 00:54:43,760
because

1313
00:54:50,710 --> 00:54:44,880
we didn't

1314
00:54:53,030 --> 00:54:50,720
the investigation in fact in september

1315
00:54:55,109 --> 00:54:53,040
of 94 on arab again we were working with

1316
00:54:57,190 --> 00:54:55,119
the late congressman stephen schiff of

1317
00:54:58,950 --> 00:54:57,200
new mexico at that time

1318
00:55:01,750 --> 00:54:58,960
and he was pushing more and more for

1319
00:55:03,670 --> 00:55:01,760
congressional hearings on roswell i'll

1320
00:55:04,789 --> 00:55:03,680
never forget after the pentagon press

1321
00:55:07,190 --> 00:55:04,799
conference

1322
00:55:09,190 --> 00:55:07,200
and i was very concerned that the good

1323
00:55:12,549 --> 00:55:09,200
congressman would then

1324
00:55:14,309 --> 00:55:12,559
see this as a reason to bail that he

1325
00:55:15,589 --> 00:55:14,319
would then

1326
00:55:17,829 --> 00:55:15,599
back off

1327
00:55:20,230 --> 00:55:17,839
and i will never forget

1328
00:55:21,750 --> 00:55:20,240
speaking with him with him at his office

1329
00:55:25,030 --> 00:55:21,760
in washington

1330
00:55:27,430 --> 00:55:25,040
and his immediate response was don

1331
00:55:30,789 --> 00:55:27,440
there are a bunch of damn liars

1332
00:55:32,829 --> 00:55:30,799
and i just need to get re-elected again

1333
00:55:35,510 --> 00:55:32,839
and we're going to hit them twice as

1334
00:55:38,549 --> 00:55:35,520
hard and i think that's what they were

1335
00:55:40,390 --> 00:55:38,559
especially concerned about that we were

1336
00:55:43,270 --> 00:55:40,400
relentless that we were not going to

1337
00:55:44,950 --> 00:55:43,280
give up because we knew we had the truth

1338
00:55:47,589 --> 00:55:44,960
we knew that roswell was something

1339
00:55:49,670 --> 00:55:47,599
significant and we knew that they were

1340
00:55:52,230 --> 00:55:49,680
stalling for time that's all they were

1341
00:55:53,750 --> 00:55:52,240
doing you know the curious thing

1342
00:55:55,109 --> 00:55:53,760
when um

1343
00:55:58,150 --> 00:55:55,119
you know the whole

1344
00:56:00,309 --> 00:55:58,160
wooden crash dummy explanation

1345
00:56:02,549 --> 00:56:00,319
and addressing the fact that we had a

1346
00:56:05,910 --> 00:56:02,559
growing number of witnesses to the

1347
00:56:08,549 --> 00:56:05,920
bodies recovered in 1947.

1348
00:56:09,910 --> 00:56:08,559
we immediately sent the facts to the

1349
00:56:12,390 --> 00:56:09,920
pentagon

1350
00:56:14,549 --> 00:56:12,400
after they came out with that brain

1351
00:56:17,990 --> 00:56:14,559
child explanation

1352
00:56:21,750 --> 00:56:18,000
in may of 1997 just before the 50th

1353
00:56:23,030 --> 00:56:21,760
anniversary and we reminded them that

1354
00:56:27,630 --> 00:56:23,040
all of our

1355
00:56:29,349 --> 00:56:27,640
witnesses to the bodies in 1997

1356
00:56:33,510 --> 00:56:29,359
specifically

1357
00:56:35,990 --> 00:56:33,520
stated that they saw the bodies in 1990

1358
00:56:39,910 --> 00:56:36,000
1947

1359
00:56:41,990 --> 00:56:39,920
none of them were in new mexico

1360
00:56:44,470 --> 00:56:42,000
in 1952

1361
00:56:47,030 --> 00:56:44,480
so they could not have confused

1362
00:56:50,390 --> 00:56:47,040
the events they could not have confused

1363
00:56:53,910 --> 00:56:50,400
the dates they weren't there at 52

1364
00:56:56,789 --> 00:56:53,920
when project high died and excelsior

1365
00:56:59,030 --> 00:56:56,799
originated when the wooden crash dummies

1366
00:57:01,829 --> 00:56:59,040
could have been misidentified and

1367
00:57:04,390 --> 00:57:01,839
confused for being something you know

1368
00:57:07,910 --> 00:57:04,400
non-human at that time so again the

1369
00:57:09,829 --> 00:57:07,920
truth as as stan freeman would often say

1370
00:57:12,390 --> 00:57:09,839
don't bother me with the facts i have my

1371
00:57:14,549 --> 00:57:12,400
mind made up yeah i love that

1372
00:57:15,589 --> 00:57:14,559
that was always that still remains the

1373
00:57:17,829 --> 00:57:15,599
case

1374
00:57:19,349 --> 00:57:17,839
uh with roswell don't bother me with the

1375
00:57:20,950 --> 00:57:19,359
facts

1376
00:57:23,510 --> 00:57:20,960
well my friends i can see that we're

1377
00:57:25,829 --> 00:57:23,520
coming up on our first hour we're almost

1378
00:57:28,069 --> 00:57:25,839
halfway through our journey now is a

1379
00:57:32,470 --> 00:57:28,079
good time for us to take a break

1380
00:57:36,280 --> 00:57:32,480
i'll be right back after these messages

1381
00:57:36,290 --> 00:57:48,710
[Music]

1382
00:57:55,510 --> 00:57:51,580
is

1383
00:57:58,789 --> 00:57:57,910
you know i wanted to just take a quick

1384
00:58:01,510 --> 00:57:58,799
uh

1385
00:58:02,470 --> 00:58:01,520
detour into this annie jacobson's book

1386
00:58:05,910 --> 00:58:02,480
because

1387
00:58:07,670 --> 00:58:05,920
you know i read her explanation and uh i

1388
00:58:09,750 --> 00:58:07,680
have a real problem with it because the

1389
00:58:11,910 --> 00:58:09,760
source that she's citing i know who it

1390
00:58:14,150 --> 00:58:11,920
is and he has totally

1391
00:58:16,069 --> 00:58:14,160
yeah he has told differing stories to

1392
00:58:17,510 --> 00:58:16,079
differing researchers depending on who

1393
00:58:19,670 --> 00:58:17,520
he was talking to

1394
00:58:24,470 --> 00:58:19,680
i'm sure he told us

1395
00:58:28,710 --> 00:58:25,829
yeah that's terrible

1396
00:58:32,630 --> 00:58:28,720
and then on abc nightline

1397
00:58:33,589 --> 00:58:32,640
he basically admitted the same thing

1398
00:58:34,789 --> 00:58:33,599
so

1399
00:58:35,829 --> 00:58:34,799
her

1400
00:58:38,710 --> 00:58:35,839
in and

1401
00:58:42,870 --> 00:58:38,720
here she is once again her paperback

1402
00:58:45,670 --> 00:58:42,880
edition of area 51 is just released and

1403
00:58:47,670 --> 00:58:45,680
she is right back to beating the same

1404
00:58:50,390 --> 00:58:47,680
old dead horse

1405
00:58:52,789 --> 00:58:50,400
so another example with don't bother me

1406
00:58:54,470 --> 00:58:52,799
with the facts i'm just trying to sell

1407
00:58:55,349 --> 00:58:54,480
more books

1408
00:58:56,549 --> 00:58:55,359
and

1409
00:58:57,829 --> 00:58:56,559
her

1410
00:58:59,990 --> 00:58:57,839
entire

1411
00:59:03,190 --> 00:59:00,000
and in the you know

1412
00:59:05,670 --> 00:59:03,200
scenario of what took place at roswell

1413
00:59:08,150 --> 00:59:05,680
is classic armchair

1414
00:59:10,390 --> 00:59:08,160
keyboard investigation

1415
00:59:13,030 --> 00:59:10,400
she's never been to roswell never been

1416
00:59:14,630 --> 00:59:13,040
to new mexico she's never spoken to an

1417
00:59:16,950 --> 00:59:14,640
actual witness

1418
00:59:19,510 --> 00:59:16,960
this is just entirely

1419
00:59:21,510 --> 00:59:19,520
fabricated from one source yeah one

1420
00:59:24,549 --> 00:59:21,520
unreliable source

1421
00:59:26,870 --> 00:59:24,559
who admits that he made it up and again

1422
00:59:30,150 --> 00:59:26,880
it doesn't matter to her because she's

1423
00:59:32,710 --> 00:59:30,160
getting all this mileage out of roswell

1424
00:59:35,750 --> 00:59:32,720
so let's look let's just examine the

1425
00:59:39,990 --> 00:59:35,760
facts let's just examine the details

1426
00:59:43,190 --> 00:59:40,000
even perpetrated by her one lone source

1427
00:59:46,230 --> 00:59:43,200
who had nothing to do with 1947

1428
00:59:48,789 --> 00:59:46,240
albeit he was with the atomic regulatory

1429
00:59:51,589 --> 00:59:48,799
commission and that he did spend some

1430
00:59:54,950 --> 00:59:51,599
time working at groom lake he did work

1431
00:59:58,150 --> 00:59:54,960
at nellis air force base and supposedly

1432
01:00:01,349 --> 00:59:58,160
maybe spent a little time at area 51

1433
01:00:03,990 --> 01:00:01,359
okay fine and again what that has to do

1434
01:00:05,670 --> 01:00:04,000
with roswell back in 47 i have not the

1435
01:00:08,950 --> 01:00:05,680
faintest but

1436
01:00:13,270 --> 01:00:08,960
he would claim as she still maintains

1437
01:00:15,349 --> 01:00:13,280
that dr joseph mengele dr death

1438
01:00:17,750 --> 01:00:15,359
of the nazi party

1439
01:00:19,990 --> 01:00:17,760
who was experimenting doing all this

1440
01:00:23,190 --> 01:00:20,000
biological research

1441
01:00:26,710 --> 01:00:23,200
and annie would claim that

1442
01:00:31,750 --> 01:00:26,720
dr mengele was captured by the soviet

1443
01:00:36,549 --> 01:00:31,760
union and that they used him to take 13

1444
01:00:40,470 --> 01:00:36,559
year old children and create biological

1445
01:00:42,390 --> 01:00:40,480
remnants appearing to be alien

1446
01:00:45,030 --> 01:00:42,400
with the

1447
01:00:47,109 --> 01:00:45,040
hope that we're going to crash something

1448
01:00:50,069 --> 01:00:47,119
we're going to put something down in the

1449
01:00:51,069 --> 01:00:50,079
united states and have

1450
01:00:54,950 --> 01:00:51,079
the

1451
01:00:57,510 --> 01:00:54,960
unsuspecting american government believe

1452
01:00:59,750 --> 01:00:57,520
that we were being invaded by

1453
01:01:01,430 --> 01:00:59,760
aliens from outer space

1454
01:01:02,789 --> 01:01:01,440
of the world scenario that that

1455
01:01:03,670 --> 01:01:02,799
precisely yeah

1456
01:01:05,829 --> 01:01:03,680
well

1457
01:01:08,950 --> 01:01:05,839
dr mengele

1458
01:01:11,270 --> 01:01:08,960
i mean i'm sorry annie

1459
01:01:14,230 --> 01:01:11,280
he didn't he was not captured by the

1460
01:01:15,030 --> 01:01:14,240
soviet union he'd managed like a lot of

1461
01:01:21,510 --> 01:01:15,040
other

1462
01:01:24,470 --> 01:01:21,520
escape the south america yeah he was

1463
01:01:27,190 --> 01:01:24,480
argentina i had heard argentina and that

1464
01:01:30,470 --> 01:01:27,200
is where he lived out the rest of his

1465
01:01:33,270 --> 01:01:30,480
life in fact the fbi i only confirmed

1466
01:01:35,829 --> 01:01:33,280
that you will find all the documentation

1467
01:01:38,630 --> 01:01:35,839
that dr joseph mengele

1468
01:01:41,670 --> 01:01:38,640
lived out the rest of his life in

1469
01:01:43,430 --> 01:01:41,680
argentina and died there

1470
01:01:45,750 --> 01:01:43,440
uh i think back in

1471
01:01:49,030 --> 01:01:45,760
in the 1970s

1472
01:01:52,470 --> 01:01:49,040
and the okay and the other

1473
01:01:54,710 --> 01:01:52,480
piece of nonsense that she would claim

1474
01:01:57,029 --> 01:01:54,720
to support her scenario

1475
01:01:59,510 --> 01:01:57,039
is that they also

1476
01:02:01,510 --> 01:01:59,520
captured one of the horton brother

1477
01:02:02,549 --> 01:02:01,520
flying wings

1478
01:02:05,430 --> 01:02:02,559
well

1479
01:02:06,870 --> 01:02:05,440
the horton brothers managed to

1480
01:02:09,430 --> 01:02:06,880
destroy

1481
01:02:11,750 --> 01:02:09,440
not only most of their blueprints most

1482
01:02:14,390 --> 01:02:11,760
of their research notes most of their

1483
01:02:15,589 --> 01:02:14,400
diagrams but they also managed to

1484
01:02:17,589 --> 01:02:15,599
destroy

1485
01:02:19,270 --> 01:02:17,599
all of the prototypes

1486
01:02:21,510 --> 01:02:19,280
that they had

1487
01:02:24,150 --> 01:02:21,520
back at the final

1488
01:02:26,950 --> 01:02:24,160
stages of the war in germany before the

1489
01:02:28,630 --> 01:02:26,960
fall of berlin itself

1490
01:02:32,069 --> 01:02:28,640
and the only

1491
01:02:35,349 --> 01:02:32,079
prototype that was even recovered was

1492
01:02:38,230 --> 01:02:35,359
not by the russians but by the united

1493
01:02:41,990 --> 01:02:38,240
states sure and that is presently on

1494
01:02:44,150 --> 01:02:42,000
display at the smithsonian in washington

1495
01:02:48,789 --> 01:02:44,160
and anyone who has seen it

1496
01:02:51,990 --> 01:02:48,799
all it is is tubular bicycle frame

1497
01:02:54,789 --> 01:02:52,000
it is constructed of flimsy

1498
01:02:56,950 --> 01:02:54,799
varnished wood

1499
01:03:00,470 --> 01:02:56,960
hardly air-worthy

1500
01:03:01,670 --> 01:03:00,480
let alone the thought that the russians

1501
01:03:03,510 --> 01:03:01,680
would have

1502
01:03:06,870 --> 01:03:03,520
used

1503
01:03:10,309 --> 01:03:06,880
such a device a horton-flying wing would

1504
01:03:12,470 --> 01:03:10,319
have flown all the way from russia

1505
01:03:13,670 --> 01:03:12,480
managed to fly it all the way to new

1506
01:03:17,109 --> 01:03:13,680
mexico

1507
01:03:19,029 --> 01:03:17,119
with a crew of 13 year old children

1508
01:03:21,990 --> 01:03:19,039
mutants

1509
01:03:25,349 --> 01:03:22,000
created to appear like

1510
01:03:27,589 --> 01:03:25,359
a spaceship from another planet

1511
01:03:29,190 --> 01:03:27,599
so the other question i would pose to

1512
01:03:32,230 --> 01:03:29,200
annie is

1513
01:03:34,950 --> 01:03:32,240
which of the 13 year olds was flying

1514
01:03:37,109 --> 01:03:34,960
such a contraption yeah isn't that that

1515
01:03:38,950 --> 01:03:37,119
i think that was a single cockpit or

1516
01:03:41,349 --> 01:03:38,960
maybe two people could fit in that it

1517
01:03:42,870 --> 01:03:41,359
was really small craft that's the other

1518
01:03:45,910 --> 01:03:42,880
thing that's a problem with this story

1519
01:03:49,589 --> 01:03:45,920
was it it was a single cockpit and again

1520
01:03:51,990 --> 01:03:49,599
it was a prototype that

1521
01:03:55,910 --> 01:03:52,000
never got off the ground

1522
01:03:59,910 --> 01:03:55,920
and um i'm sorry the fact that as we

1523
01:04:02,549 --> 01:03:59,920
both have described the very source

1524
01:04:06,230 --> 01:04:02,559
of the story of this scenario has

1525
01:04:08,069 --> 01:04:06,240
recanted has admitted that it was just

1526
01:04:09,589 --> 01:04:08,079
totally fabricated

1527
01:04:13,029 --> 01:04:09,599
what type of a

1528
01:04:16,470 --> 01:04:13,039
if i were to continue if i had one lone

1529
01:04:19,510 --> 01:04:16,480
witness to the entire roswell scenario

1530
01:04:22,309 --> 01:04:19,520
and if that witness would have recanted

1531
01:04:24,950 --> 01:04:22,319
would have retracted would have conceded

1532
01:04:28,150 --> 01:04:24,960
confessed that they had made it up

1533
01:04:29,990 --> 01:04:28,160
be the end of my story

1534
01:04:33,190 --> 01:04:30,000
and i don't for the life of me i don't

1535
01:04:34,630 --> 01:04:33,200
get it and it's only a single appendix

1536
01:04:37,270 --> 01:04:34,640
in her book

1537
01:04:38,390 --> 01:04:37,280
but if anything it demonstrates that

1538
01:04:40,789 --> 01:04:38,400
roswell

1539
01:04:44,470 --> 01:04:40,799
still has a lot of legs left

1540
01:04:47,829 --> 01:04:44,480
that you can even include a single

1541
01:04:49,910 --> 01:04:47,839
witness so-called witness as an appendix

1542
01:04:51,109 --> 01:04:49,920
in your book

1543
01:04:53,029 --> 01:04:51,119
and

1544
01:04:56,309 --> 01:04:53,039
the journalists

1545
01:04:57,990 --> 01:04:56,319
the media totally focuses on once again

1546
01:04:59,670 --> 01:04:58,000
roswell

1547
01:05:02,230 --> 01:04:59,680
sure

1548
01:05:04,150 --> 01:05:02,240
yeah it's unfortunate and i i think that

1549
01:05:07,109 --> 01:05:04,160
we're seeing a resurgence of a lot of

1550
01:05:09,190 --> 01:05:07,119
old hoaxes and proven fake things that

1551
01:05:11,990 --> 01:05:09,200
are kind of coming back to the forefront

1552
01:05:14,309 --> 01:05:12,000
and then also these opportunists that

1553
01:05:15,990 --> 01:05:14,319
rush in because i think there's a huge

1554
01:05:17,670 --> 01:05:16,000
need for this information like the

1555
01:05:19,430 --> 01:05:17,680
public really wants to know about this

1556
01:05:21,349 --> 01:05:19,440
and these people they're less than

1557
01:05:23,190 --> 01:05:21,359
scrupulous less than ethical they don't

1558
01:05:25,270 --> 01:05:23,200
care about the truth they just want to

1559
01:05:26,870 --> 01:05:25,280
sell a book a dvd whatever the case may

1560
01:05:29,190 --> 01:05:26,880
be and they rush in they talk about this

1561
01:05:32,630 --> 01:05:29,200
all the time it's hunger that we have

1562
01:05:34,789 --> 01:05:32,640
she was just on jimmy church

1563
01:05:37,190 --> 01:05:34,799
i think last week she was just on joel

1564
01:05:39,910 --> 01:05:37,200
rogan yeah i saw that

1565
01:05:42,950 --> 01:05:39,920
and again i i don't get it

1566
01:05:45,349 --> 01:05:42,960
i i just don't get it except it's to

1567
01:05:48,870 --> 01:05:45,359
sell books off of

1568
01:05:52,150 --> 01:05:48,880
roswell on art coattails

1569
01:05:54,150 --> 01:05:52,160
that she's the one who miraculously

1570
01:05:55,829 --> 01:05:54,160
after all these years it doesn't matter

1571
01:05:59,109 --> 01:05:55,839
that we've been working on this for 30

1572
01:06:02,270 --> 01:05:59,119
years that thank you annie jacobson you

1573
01:06:05,589 --> 01:06:02,280
come up with one discredited

1574
01:06:08,230 --> 01:06:05,599
irresponsible discredited source

1575
01:06:09,349 --> 01:06:08,240
and you still are willing

1576
01:06:10,789 --> 01:06:09,359
to

1577
01:06:13,349 --> 01:06:10,799
fabricate

1578
01:06:15,990 --> 01:06:13,359
such a situation for no other reason

1579
01:06:18,789 --> 01:06:16,000
that you can you can take credit for

1580
01:06:20,710 --> 01:06:18,799
solving roswell well i can assure you it

1581
01:06:24,069 --> 01:06:20,720
doesn't solve roswell it doesn't solve

1582
01:06:24,950 --> 01:06:24,079
anything because the entire story

1583
01:06:27,589 --> 01:06:24,960
is

1584
01:06:29,589 --> 01:06:27,599
one giant lie

1585
01:06:31,430 --> 01:06:29,599
yeah i remember reading this and

1586
01:06:33,510 --> 01:06:31,440
thinking this was laughable but it did

1587
01:06:35,430 --> 01:06:33,520
sell the book you know you're right it

1588
01:06:37,510 --> 01:06:35,440
absolutely sold that book i don't think

1589
01:06:39,270 --> 01:06:37,520
she would have gotten much traction

1590
01:06:40,870 --> 01:06:39,280
selling that book otherwise that was the

1591
01:06:42,630 --> 01:06:40,880
hook that sold the book that was the

1592
01:06:43,670 --> 01:06:42,640
hook and it's still the hook she's still

1593
01:06:45,190 --> 01:06:43,680
using it

1594
01:06:47,670 --> 01:06:45,200
yeah and it's funny to me that she

1595
01:06:50,390 --> 01:06:47,680
continues to persist in this even after

1596
01:06:52,069 --> 01:06:50,400
the the original source said no i just

1597
01:06:54,150 --> 01:06:52,079
made it up to help her sell a book but

1598
01:06:56,549 --> 01:06:54,160
these are the things that we see in this

1599
01:06:57,910 --> 01:06:56,559
so-called you know

1600
01:06:59,670 --> 01:06:57,920
field here

1601
01:07:02,549 --> 01:06:59,680
but she's not in our field that's the

1602
01:07:03,750 --> 01:07:02,559
thing she's supposed to be a legitimate

1603
01:07:08,309 --> 01:07:03,760
journalist

1604
01:07:10,870 --> 01:07:08,319
it'd be one thing if it were a fellow

1605
01:07:12,069 --> 01:07:10,880
ufologist it was someone a colleague in

1606
01:07:13,270 --> 01:07:12,079
our field

1607
01:07:14,150 --> 01:07:13,280
and

1608
01:07:38,309 --> 01:07:14,160
i

1609
01:07:40,309 --> 01:07:38,319
one am glad that you're here to set the

1610
01:07:42,549 --> 01:07:40,319
record straight and if i had to choose

1611
01:07:44,230 --> 01:07:42,559
between who is more credible and more

1612
01:07:46,069 --> 01:07:44,240
knowledgeable about the case of course i

1613
01:07:47,190 --> 01:07:46,079
would choose you because of you know

1614
01:07:48,870 --> 01:07:47,200
like you were talking about before

1615
01:07:51,349 --> 01:07:48,880
you've been working on this for so long

1616
01:07:52,630 --> 01:07:51,359
and talked to more witnesses than anyone

1617
01:07:54,630 --> 01:07:52,640
one of the things i wanted to talk to

1618
01:07:56,950 --> 01:07:54,640
you about is your book on wright

1619
01:07:59,109 --> 01:07:56,960
patterson because you know we have this

1620
01:08:01,510 --> 01:07:59,119
storm area 51 thing that i think is kind

1621
01:08:03,430 --> 01:08:01,520
of laughable now because

1622
01:08:06,150 --> 01:08:03,440
i don't think there's any secrets about

1623
01:08:07,190 --> 01:08:06,160
alien technology at area 51 more likely

1624
01:08:09,750 --> 01:08:07,200
they went

1625
01:08:11,910 --> 01:08:09,760
and continue i suppose to go to wright

1626
01:08:14,150 --> 01:08:11,920
patterson can you tell us about your

1627
01:08:17,110 --> 01:08:14,160
book because in that book you mentioned

1628
01:08:20,229 --> 01:08:17,120
you called it the real area 51

1629
01:08:21,669 --> 01:08:20,239
and and that is where most people i

1630
01:08:23,910 --> 01:08:21,679
believe including yourself believe that

1631
01:08:27,189 --> 01:08:23,920
the roswell wreckage and any other alien

1632
01:08:30,229 --> 01:08:27,199
technology goes isn't that right well

1633
01:08:31,829 --> 01:08:30,239
let's even just go back to the original

1634
01:08:35,030 --> 01:08:31,839
incident

1635
01:08:36,950 --> 01:08:35,040
and the fact that no matter what one

1636
01:08:38,870 --> 01:08:36,960
chooses to believe

1637
01:08:40,470 --> 01:08:38,880
according to

1638
01:08:42,390 --> 01:08:40,480
the press accounts

1639
01:08:44,870 --> 01:08:42,400
according to all the official

1640
01:08:46,229 --> 01:08:44,880
announcements according to even the

1641
01:08:48,550 --> 01:08:46,239
pentagon

1642
01:08:50,550 --> 01:08:48,560
the wreckage from roswell

1643
01:08:53,510 --> 01:08:50,560
went to right field

1644
01:08:54,390 --> 01:08:53,520
which would become wright-patterson

1645
01:08:58,229 --> 01:08:54,400
and

1646
01:08:59,030 --> 01:08:58,239
i mean that's a matter of historic fact

1647
01:09:01,990 --> 01:08:59,040
and

1648
01:09:03,669 --> 01:09:02,000
the unique thing about right field

1649
01:09:08,470 --> 01:09:03,679
wright patterson

1650
01:09:11,189 --> 01:09:08,480
is that back in july of 1947 you had two

1651
01:09:14,149 --> 01:09:11,199
specific

1652
01:09:15,590 --> 01:09:14,159
branches of operation one was called

1653
01:09:18,390 --> 01:09:15,600
t2

1654
01:09:22,309 --> 01:09:18,400
which was intelligence and the other was

1655
01:09:24,630 --> 01:09:22,319
t3 which was engineering

1656
01:09:27,269 --> 01:09:24,640
and so

1657
01:09:30,309 --> 01:09:27,279
what they both specialized in and

1658
01:09:35,030 --> 01:09:30,319
specifically t2

1659
01:09:36,470 --> 01:09:35,040
was the recovery of enemy hardware

1660
01:09:39,829 --> 01:09:36,480
in other words

1661
01:09:43,110 --> 01:09:39,839
if it was german post-world war ii

1662
01:09:44,709 --> 01:09:43,120
or russian or japanese if we got our

1663
01:09:46,630 --> 01:09:44,719
hands on it we got our hands on a

1664
01:09:49,110 --> 01:09:46,640
russian mig

1665
01:09:51,829 --> 01:09:49,120
went to wright-patterson air force base

1666
01:09:55,669 --> 01:09:51,839
because that's where they did the the

1667
01:09:57,830 --> 01:09:55,679
technicians who specialize in propulsion

1668
01:10:00,070 --> 01:09:57,840
and aerodynamics and you know new

1669
01:10:00,870 --> 01:10:00,080
material development

1670
01:10:02,470 --> 01:10:00,880
they

1671
01:10:05,270 --> 01:10:02,480
want to see

1672
01:10:07,669 --> 01:10:05,280
if they had anything on us if there was

1673
01:10:10,630 --> 01:10:07,679
anything that we needed that we could

1674
01:10:11,590 --> 01:10:10,640
utilize to further our own technology in

1675
01:10:13,990 --> 01:10:11,600
other words

1676
01:10:15,830 --> 01:10:14,000
let's find the odd buttons and and see

1677
01:10:17,270 --> 01:10:15,840
we can you know use them to our own

1678
01:10:19,270 --> 01:10:17,280
advantage

1679
01:10:21,189 --> 01:10:19,280
so here you have this crash of this

1680
01:10:24,950 --> 01:10:21,199
craft of unknown origin

1681
01:10:27,590 --> 01:10:24,960
outside of roswell in july of 1947

1682
01:10:30,470 --> 01:10:27,600
and even after the balloon explanation

1683
01:10:31,350 --> 01:10:30,480
stephen it's still a matter of historic

1684
01:10:35,590 --> 01:10:31,360
fact

1685
01:10:38,709 --> 01:10:35,600
there is that that famous fbi telex that

1686
01:10:43,110 --> 01:10:38,719
went out on the evening of july 8th

1687
01:10:46,709 --> 01:10:43,120
tuesday july 8 at 6 17

1688
01:10:47,990 --> 01:10:46,719
central standard time 6 17 p.m central

1689
01:10:51,590 --> 01:10:48,000
standard time

1690
01:10:53,350 --> 01:10:51,600
refuting the balloon explanation

1691
01:10:54,870 --> 01:10:53,360
and saying that

1692
01:10:57,910 --> 01:10:54,880
we don't care

1693
01:11:00,630 --> 01:10:57,920
what general roger raimi has just said

1694
01:11:02,470 --> 01:11:00,640
about explaining this all away as just a

1695
01:11:05,750 --> 01:11:02,480
weather balloon device

1696
01:11:07,669 --> 01:11:05,760
it is still going on to right field for

1697
01:11:10,229 --> 01:11:07,679
testing and analysis

1698
01:11:14,390 --> 01:11:10,239
and it is not a balloon as we have been

1699
01:11:16,550 --> 01:11:14,400
discussing the details with right field

1700
01:11:18,790 --> 01:11:16,560
well who are they talking to they're

1701
01:11:23,590 --> 01:11:18,800
talking to the people who are getting

1702
01:11:27,110 --> 01:11:23,600
ready at t2 to test exactly what this

1703
01:11:28,709 --> 01:11:27,120
material is this wreckage is what this

1704
01:11:31,990 --> 01:11:28,719
this talk of

1705
01:11:34,070 --> 01:11:32,000
a crash of a flying saucer is all about

1706
01:11:36,950 --> 01:11:34,080
so

1707
01:11:39,910 --> 01:11:36,960
there are then witnesses as we describe

1708
01:11:42,390 --> 01:11:39,920
in the book on the receiving end the

1709
01:11:45,270 --> 01:11:42,400
people who were at t2

1710
01:11:47,669 --> 01:11:45,280
the late general arthur exxon who would

1711
01:11:50,229 --> 01:11:47,679
go on to be a base commander

1712
01:11:51,990 --> 01:11:50,239
at right path in

1713
01:11:53,350 --> 01:11:52,000
1964.

1714
01:11:56,310 --> 01:11:53,360
he was there

1715
01:11:59,830 --> 01:11:56,320
he was aware of the wreckage coming in

1716
01:12:02,470 --> 01:11:59,840
and all of the testing all the tensile

1717
01:12:05,830 --> 01:12:02,480
strength all the testing at the

1718
01:12:09,669 --> 01:12:05,840
molecular level trying to determine

1719
01:12:11,590 --> 01:12:09,679
what the special alloys involved and how

1720
01:12:12,550 --> 01:12:11,600
they were combined

1721
01:12:14,550 --> 01:12:12,560
and

1722
01:12:15,430 --> 01:12:14,560
then the

1723
01:12:19,270 --> 01:12:15,440
the

1724
01:12:21,990 --> 01:12:19,280
example

1725
01:12:25,350 --> 01:12:22,000
and according to exxon that there was a

1726
01:12:27,830 --> 01:12:25,360
unanimous consensus on the base

1727
01:12:30,390 --> 01:12:27,840
that after they first thought the

1728
01:12:32,229 --> 01:12:30,400
materials had to be russian because they

1729
01:12:34,630 --> 01:12:32,239
didn't recognize it it was nothing that

1730
01:12:36,790 --> 01:12:34,640
they had ever seen before but that after

1731
01:12:39,590 --> 01:12:36,800
all the testing that the

1732
01:12:42,950 --> 01:12:39,600
the consensus was unanimous that the

1733
01:12:45,430 --> 01:12:42,960
materials were from space they were not

1734
01:12:48,470 --> 01:12:45,440
from this planet

1735
01:12:51,270 --> 01:12:48,480
and then as we named throughout the book

1736
01:12:54,229 --> 01:12:51,280
more and more of the witnesses who were

1737
01:12:56,950 --> 01:12:54,239
involved not only with the wreckage but

1738
01:12:59,669 --> 01:12:56,960
the recovery of the craft and then the

1739
01:13:00,709 --> 01:12:59,679
bodies and then the autopsies at the

1740
01:13:05,189 --> 01:13:00,719
base

1741
01:13:08,070 --> 01:13:05,199
so all roads leading to wright patterson

1742
01:13:09,430 --> 01:13:08,080
and then subsequently additional crashes

1743
01:13:11,990 --> 01:13:09,440
if we are to believe and i accept

1744
01:13:13,430 --> 01:13:12,000
roswell i have to accept the possibility

1745
01:13:16,630 --> 01:13:13,440
that there were other

1746
01:13:18,950 --> 01:13:16,640
events of this nature other crashes and

1747
01:13:21,910 --> 01:13:18,960
that they too also went

1748
01:13:24,550 --> 01:13:21,920
to wright-patterson in dayton ohio the

1749
01:13:30,310 --> 01:13:28,390
fact that one cannot deny is there was

1750
01:13:32,950 --> 01:13:30,320
no area 51

1751
01:13:34,070 --> 01:13:32,960
in 1947. sure yeah

1752
01:13:37,110 --> 01:13:34,080
right

1753
01:13:38,149 --> 01:13:37,120
area 51 did not come in into existence

1754
01:13:42,070 --> 01:13:38,159
until

1755
01:13:47,030 --> 01:13:44,149
so eight years later

1756
01:13:50,550 --> 01:13:47,040
and then it was just a landing field

1757
01:13:52,790 --> 01:13:50,560
it was where they slowly then became

1758
01:13:55,750 --> 01:13:52,800
more and more of a test site and they

1759
01:13:58,830 --> 01:13:55,760
started to get into more and more

1760
01:14:02,310 --> 01:13:58,840
testing and engineering and special

1761
01:14:05,590 --> 01:14:02,320
research and we've had numerous

1762
01:14:09,830 --> 01:14:05,600
high-ranking officials at right path

1763
01:14:12,709 --> 01:14:09,840
who have you know told us off the record

1764
01:14:15,430 --> 01:14:12,719
that it became more and more difficult

1765
01:14:16,310 --> 01:14:15,440
now just imagine

1766
01:14:26,709 --> 01:14:16,320
the

1767
01:14:27,590 --> 01:14:26,719
dried up lake basin groom lake

1768
01:14:30,630 --> 01:14:27,600
and it's

1769
01:14:32,390 --> 01:14:30,640
it's it's shrouded by mountains

1770
01:14:35,350 --> 01:14:32,400
and open desert

1771
01:14:37,990 --> 01:14:35,360
it's just a perfect test site

1772
01:14:39,510 --> 01:14:38,000
whereas right path is in the middle of a

1773
01:14:43,189 --> 01:14:39,520
city

1774
01:14:46,390 --> 01:14:43,199
so as one of the the colonels said to us

1775
01:14:48,950 --> 01:14:46,400
they were having a damnable time

1776
01:14:49,910 --> 01:14:48,960
bringing things in and shipping things

1777
01:14:51,430 --> 01:14:49,920
out

1778
01:14:53,830 --> 01:14:51,440
of right path

1779
01:14:55,910 --> 01:14:53,840
because of that very fact there would be

1780
01:14:57,669 --> 01:14:55,920
more eyes right there'd be more eyes on

1781
01:15:00,149 --> 01:14:57,679
the on the base

1782
01:15:02,310 --> 01:15:00,159
exactly and he said that

1783
01:15:04,790 --> 01:15:02,320
it was his information

1784
01:15:05,510 --> 01:15:04,800
that just about everything was shipped

1785
01:15:07,350 --> 01:15:05,520
out

1786
01:15:10,950 --> 01:15:07,360
by the early 80s

1787
01:15:14,229 --> 01:15:10,960
that as things came in late 40s and

1788
01:15:16,709 --> 01:15:14,239
through the 50s and even in the 60s

1789
01:15:18,070 --> 01:15:16,719
that little by little things were being

1790
01:15:19,430 --> 01:15:18,080
shipped out

1791
01:15:21,590 --> 01:15:19,440
so then

1792
01:15:24,709 --> 01:15:21,600
we started hearing more and more not

1793
01:15:26,630 --> 01:15:24,719
about area 51. but

1794
01:15:28,550 --> 01:15:26,640
area 52

1795
01:15:31,270 --> 01:15:28,560
and specifically

1796
01:15:36,070 --> 01:15:31,280
during the mid 1990s

1797
01:15:38,790 --> 01:15:36,080
when there was this class action suit

1798
01:15:41,430 --> 01:15:38,800
of a lot of former workers

1799
01:15:42,470 --> 01:15:41,440
employees this class-action suit

1800
01:15:45,910 --> 01:15:42,480
of

1801
01:15:48,229 --> 01:15:45,920
people who were assigned to area 51

1802
01:15:51,270 --> 01:15:48,239
that it became more and more of a toxic

1803
01:15:53,189 --> 01:15:51,280
dump site that everything was going in

1804
01:15:55,189 --> 01:15:53,199
and nothing was coming out

1805
01:15:57,669 --> 01:15:55,199
and there were descriptions of how they

1806
01:16:00,070 --> 01:15:57,679
would pour aviation fuel

1807
01:16:02,390 --> 01:16:00,080
all over a a

1808
01:16:04,709 --> 01:16:02,400
discarded area

1809
01:16:09,030 --> 01:16:04,719
and they would light it on fire

1810
01:16:11,669 --> 01:16:09,040
destroying you know all of this material

1811
01:16:15,030 --> 01:16:11,679
you know giving off all these plumes of

1812
01:16:17,350 --> 01:16:15,040
you know the toxic fumes to the exposed

1813
01:16:19,990 --> 01:16:17,360
personnel on the base

1814
01:16:23,030 --> 01:16:20,000
so there are people who are getting sick

1815
01:16:25,430 --> 01:16:23,040
there are even some deaths associated

1816
01:16:27,350 --> 01:16:25,440
with the possibility that these people

1817
01:16:28,390 --> 01:16:27,360
have been exposed

1818
01:16:32,550 --> 01:16:28,400
but

1819
01:16:35,830 --> 01:16:32,560
as roswell even the the judges

1820
01:16:38,709 --> 01:16:35,840
who basically threw it all out because

1821
01:16:42,470 --> 01:16:38,719
what the what the ruling was that

1822
01:16:45,510 --> 01:16:42,480
secrecy is more important than

1823
01:16:48,550 --> 01:16:45,520
civil rights secrecy is more important

1824
01:16:51,189 --> 01:16:48,560
than the very health and well-being

1825
01:16:53,270 --> 01:16:51,199
of people who are involved

1826
01:16:55,750 --> 01:16:53,280
and so

1827
01:16:57,590 --> 01:16:55,760
it was during that time though

1828
01:16:58,709 --> 01:16:57,600
that we were paying more and more

1829
01:17:01,590 --> 01:16:58,719
attention

1830
01:17:04,310 --> 01:17:01,600
to area 52

1831
01:17:07,430 --> 01:17:04,320
which is in utah

1832
01:17:10,630 --> 01:17:07,440
and this was an area that originated

1833
01:17:11,990 --> 01:17:10,640
as a result of all the attempted rocket

1834
01:17:14,550 --> 01:17:12,000
launches

1835
01:17:16,630 --> 01:17:14,560
from white sands proving ground north of

1836
01:17:19,270 --> 01:17:16,640
holloman air force base in alamogordo

1837
01:17:20,229 --> 01:17:19,280
new mexico whenever they were launching

1838
01:18:07,590 --> 01:17:20,239
a

1839
01:18:15,030 --> 01:18:07,600
in

1840
01:18:16,149 --> 01:18:15,040
only do we have first-hand witnesses at

1841
01:18:18,870 --> 01:18:16,159
dugway

1842
01:18:21,430 --> 01:18:18,880
not only do we have high-ranking

1843
01:18:23,669 --> 01:18:21,440
officers who have made that very

1844
01:18:27,189 --> 01:18:23,679
statement that there are bodies at

1845
01:18:29,990 --> 01:18:27,199
dugway but when i even asked

1846
01:18:32,149 --> 01:18:30,000
the late colonel robert friend

1847
01:18:33,750 --> 01:18:32,159
who was the second last director of

1848
01:18:36,709 --> 01:18:33,760
project blue book

1849
01:18:39,430 --> 01:18:36,719
and and friend just passed away

1850
01:18:42,709 --> 01:18:39,440
a couple months ago yeah i heard that

1851
01:18:45,430 --> 01:18:42,719
and last time i had dinner with him

1852
01:18:48,790 --> 01:18:45,440
in los angeles and i asked him

1853
01:18:52,070 --> 01:18:48,800
because uh no matter what i asked

1854
01:18:54,390 --> 01:18:52,080
colonel friend he just was a you know a

1855
01:18:57,910 --> 01:18:54,400
true patriot he just wouldn't admit

1856
01:18:59,270 --> 01:18:57,920
anything just deny deny deny deny

1857
01:19:00,630 --> 01:18:59,280
but i asked him i just said well

1858
01:19:04,630 --> 01:19:00,640
hypothetically

1859
01:19:06,870 --> 01:19:04,640
if you had bodies if you had bodies

1860
01:19:09,510 --> 01:19:06,880
you had unique specimens they weren't

1861
01:19:11,350 --> 01:19:09,520
from here where would you preserve them

1862
01:19:15,030 --> 01:19:11,360
where would you have them today

1863
01:19:16,149 --> 01:19:15,040
and he immediately responded well

1864
01:19:18,870 --> 01:19:16,159
dugway

1865
01:19:21,430 --> 01:19:18,880
utah yeah biological medical research

1866
01:19:25,189 --> 01:19:21,440
facility because they would have them

1867
01:19:30,310 --> 01:19:25,199
wherewith all the means and as he put it

1868
01:19:32,470 --> 01:19:30,320
it would be the perfect hiding facility

1869
01:19:34,070 --> 01:19:32,480
well you know one of the other things

1870
01:19:35,430 --> 01:19:34,080
that i wanted to ask you about it's kind

1871
01:19:37,030 --> 01:19:35,440
of the elephant in the room because

1872
01:19:39,030 --> 01:19:37,040
you've gotten a lot of grief about it

1873
01:19:40,229 --> 01:19:39,040
but i totally agree with the things i've

1874
01:19:41,910 --> 01:19:40,239
heard you say

1875
01:19:43,750 --> 01:19:41,920
previously about it but i still for the

1876
01:19:44,470 --> 01:19:43,760
benefit of my listeners wanted to ask

1877
01:19:46,870 --> 01:19:44,480
you

1878
01:19:48,630 --> 01:19:46,880
about these roswell slide the the

1879
01:19:51,110 --> 01:19:48,640
roswell flat hoax

1880
01:19:53,910 --> 01:19:51,120
because i think you've really been you

1881
01:19:55,910 --> 01:19:53,920
got a lot of grief about it and your

1882
01:19:57,270 --> 01:19:55,920
assessment that you had experts you

1883
01:20:00,070 --> 01:19:57,280
believe you know you talked to the

1884
01:20:01,590 --> 01:20:00,080
experts they said this you know and a

1885
01:20:03,830 --> 01:20:01,600
lot of people uh

1886
01:20:05,669 --> 01:20:03,840
i i think have given you too much grief

1887
01:20:07,830 --> 01:20:05,679
over this can you talk about the roswell

1888
01:20:11,110 --> 01:20:07,840
slides and what happened with them and

1889
01:20:13,270 --> 01:20:11,120
you know absolutely absolutely

1890
01:20:14,550 --> 01:20:13,280
one of the unique

1891
01:20:17,669 --> 01:20:14,560
advantages

1892
01:20:21,110 --> 01:20:17,679
with working on a case like roswell

1893
01:20:23,030 --> 01:20:21,120
just about every other ufo incident

1894
01:20:24,950 --> 01:20:23,040
is is very fleeting

1895
01:20:27,510 --> 01:20:24,960
now you see it now you don't

1896
01:20:29,910 --> 01:20:27,520
dr heineck my site my late scientific

1897
01:20:33,110 --> 01:20:29,920
director used to refer to it as the the

1898
01:20:35,110 --> 01:20:33,120
chess shire cat effect all you have left

1899
01:20:35,910 --> 01:20:35,120
is the smile so to speak

1900
01:20:40,550 --> 01:20:35,920
well

1901
01:20:44,709 --> 01:20:43,110
of ufo incidents all you have is the

1902
01:20:46,550 --> 01:20:44,719
eyewitness

1903
01:20:49,350 --> 01:20:46,560
you might have an occasional photograph

1904
01:20:52,310 --> 01:20:49,360
or some video and uh you know

1905
01:20:55,030 --> 01:20:52,320
very few of them pass the scrutiny of

1906
01:20:58,229 --> 01:20:55,040
the experts so that's it's a great

1907
01:21:00,390 --> 01:20:58,239
example of where experts generally are

1908
01:21:02,870 --> 01:21:00,400
correct in determining

1909
01:21:03,990 --> 01:21:02,880
whether a photograph is legitimate or

1910
01:21:05,669 --> 01:21:04,000
not

1911
01:21:08,149 --> 01:21:05,679
well with roswell

1912
01:21:09,750 --> 01:21:08,159
we have physical remains

1913
01:21:11,430 --> 01:21:09,760
you have wreckage

1914
01:21:14,390 --> 01:21:11,440
you have

1915
01:21:16,229 --> 01:21:14,400
survivor

1916
01:21:18,390 --> 01:21:16,239
you have hundreds of eyewitness

1917
01:21:20,629 --> 01:21:18,400
testimonies you have documents you have

1918
01:21:23,750 --> 01:21:20,639
photographs you have film

1919
01:21:24,629 --> 01:21:23,760
and you have deathbed testimonies i i

1920
01:21:26,950 --> 01:21:24,639
would

1921
01:21:29,270 --> 01:21:26,960
ask you to even ask your audience give

1922
01:21:33,510 --> 01:21:29,280
me an example of any other ufo case that

1923
01:21:39,270 --> 01:21:36,390
roswell's it roswell is about it and and

1924
01:21:42,709 --> 01:21:39,280
the fact that we have dozens okay so

1925
01:21:45,510 --> 01:21:42,719
with all that in the mix

1926
01:21:48,629 --> 01:21:45,520
i can assure you we have had a lot of

1927
01:21:51,350 --> 01:21:48,639
roswell's slide situations we have a lot

1928
01:21:53,189 --> 01:21:51,360
we've had so many false flags in that

1929
01:21:54,790 --> 01:21:53,199
we've had

1930
01:21:57,910 --> 01:21:54,800
no matter what one believes about the

1931
01:22:00,070 --> 01:21:57,920
mj12 documents for example i personally

1932
01:22:02,189 --> 01:22:00,080
believe that if they are

1933
01:22:05,669 --> 01:22:02,199
totally fabricated they are

1934
01:22:07,669 --> 01:22:05,679
disinformation intended to discredit the

1935
01:22:09,990 --> 01:22:07,679
very people who

1936
01:22:12,550 --> 01:22:10,000
were became involved with them okay fine

1937
01:22:15,350 --> 01:22:12,560
but so there's a case of documents we've

1938
01:22:18,629 --> 01:22:15,360
had other uh cases of other documents

1939
01:22:20,870 --> 01:22:18,639
we've had photographs we've had film

1940
01:22:23,910 --> 01:22:20,880
uh stephen i can't tell you how often we

1941
01:22:25,910 --> 01:22:23,920
have had fake material wreckage yeah

1942
01:22:27,669 --> 01:22:25,920
there's an alien autopsy hoax as well

1943
01:22:29,189 --> 01:22:27,679
that's the alien autopsy making the

1944
01:22:30,790 --> 01:22:29,199
rounds again they're always saying that

1945
01:22:32,629 --> 01:22:30,800
was a recreation i still have the

1946
01:22:33,350 --> 01:22:32,639
original that's all it's going to come

1947
01:22:37,430 --> 01:22:33,360
back

1948
01:22:39,669 --> 01:22:37,440
hope this doesn't mean that the slides

1949
01:22:42,070 --> 01:22:39,679
are going to come back god help us but

1950
01:22:44,390 --> 01:22:42,080
the point being that we have to

1951
01:22:45,750 --> 01:22:44,400
investigate we have to perform due

1952
01:22:48,229 --> 01:22:45,760
diligence

1953
01:22:50,390 --> 01:22:48,239
with all of this with the chance the

1954
01:22:53,110 --> 01:22:50,400
possibility that all it's going to take

1955
01:22:55,270 --> 01:22:53,120
is just one time that

1956
01:22:56,709 --> 01:22:55,280
we have that breakthrough one time that

1957
01:22:59,270 --> 01:22:56,719
that fragment

1958
01:23:00,390 --> 01:22:59,280
that that piece of metal will check out

1959
01:23:01,669 --> 01:23:00,400
to be

1960
01:23:04,629 --> 01:23:01,679
exotic

1961
01:23:07,590 --> 01:23:04,639
sure something as far as uh

1962
01:23:09,590 --> 01:23:07,600
beyond as far as earthly comprehension

1963
01:23:10,790 --> 01:23:09,600
that we're going to have you know

1964
01:23:12,790 --> 01:23:10,800
something that

1965
01:23:15,030 --> 01:23:12,800
finally is going to prove the very

1966
01:23:15,990 --> 01:23:15,040
existence that we are not alone

1967
01:23:19,910 --> 01:23:16,000
so

1968
01:23:23,830 --> 01:23:19,920
we had that possibility with the slides

1969
01:23:26,390 --> 01:23:23,840
now i need to emphasize we we were never

1970
01:23:27,750 --> 01:23:26,400
allowed to take the slides in our

1971
01:23:29,990 --> 01:23:27,760
possession

1972
01:23:31,189 --> 01:23:30,000
to have them tested on our own to have

1973
01:23:34,070 --> 01:23:31,199
them

1974
01:23:36,149 --> 01:23:34,080
investigated researched we were only

1975
01:23:37,910 --> 01:23:36,159
provided scams

1976
01:23:41,550 --> 01:23:37,920
from the owners

1977
01:23:43,669 --> 01:23:41,560
and we were originally asked to sign

1978
01:23:46,149 --> 01:23:43,679
non-disclosure agreements with the

1979
01:23:47,350 --> 01:23:46,159
owners that we could not discuss them we

1980
01:23:50,550 --> 01:23:47,360
could not

1981
01:23:53,990 --> 01:23:50,560
uh provide any details any information

1982
01:23:57,110 --> 01:23:54,000
to anyone any of our colleagues before

1983
01:23:59,510 --> 01:23:57,120
the owners the possessors of the slides

1984
01:24:02,550 --> 01:23:59,520
were willing to go public okay

1985
01:24:04,870 --> 01:24:02,560
so all of that as a background

1986
01:24:08,550 --> 01:24:04,880
we then

1987
01:24:10,550 --> 01:24:08,560
relied on as many anthropologists who we

1988
01:24:13,110 --> 01:24:10,560
could contact

1989
01:24:14,870 --> 01:24:13,120
and one by one they were describing to

1990
01:24:18,470 --> 01:24:14,880
us why

1991
01:24:20,550 --> 01:24:18,480
the body in the slide was not human

1992
01:24:23,510 --> 01:24:20,560
that it didn't have the correct number

1993
01:24:25,990 --> 01:24:23,520
of ribs that it didn't have rotator

1994
01:24:27,990 --> 01:24:26,000
cuffs in the shoulders that the carpal

1995
01:24:30,629 --> 01:24:28,000
bones in the wrists

1996
01:24:33,350 --> 01:24:30,639
were different than human beings there

1997
01:24:34,149 --> 01:24:33,360
were that the joints were different

1998
01:24:35,990 --> 01:24:34,159
that

1999
01:24:38,870 --> 01:24:36,000
the the size

2000
01:24:41,830 --> 01:24:38,880
uh in com relationship to the cranium

2001
01:24:45,030 --> 01:24:41,840
the skull was disproportionate to any

2002
01:24:47,030 --> 01:24:45,040
human being no no no not okay so we were

2003
01:24:49,990 --> 01:24:47,040
relying heavily

2004
01:24:51,350 --> 01:24:50,000
on again the scientists

2005
01:24:55,270 --> 01:24:51,360
to tell us

2006
01:24:56,870 --> 01:24:55,280
why this was either one thing or another

2007
01:24:59,030 --> 01:24:56,880
so then

2008
01:25:00,950 --> 01:24:59,040
obviously we were very concerned about

2009
01:25:03,990 --> 01:25:00,960
the placard

2010
01:25:06,790 --> 01:25:04,000
you know

2011
01:25:09,990 --> 01:25:06,800
is decipherable it's readable or it's

2012
01:25:12,709 --> 01:25:10,000
not but if it is it's going to tell us

2013
01:25:13,830 --> 01:25:12,719
exactly what this body is what we're

2014
01:25:17,669 --> 01:25:13,840
dealing with

2015
01:25:20,390 --> 01:25:17,679
well we were provided with scans

2016
01:25:21,669 --> 01:25:20,400
of the placard and low resolution scans

2017
01:25:24,830 --> 01:25:21,679
i should add

2018
01:25:27,430 --> 01:25:24,840
very low resolution very low resolution

2019
01:25:29,669 --> 01:25:27,440
and they were stretched

2020
01:25:32,790 --> 01:25:29,679
which we were not aware of

2021
01:25:36,390 --> 01:25:32,800
in fact it gave in the immediate

2022
01:25:38,310 --> 01:25:36,400
impression that it was script

2023
01:25:39,590 --> 01:25:38,320
handwriting it was hand they were

2024
01:25:40,709 --> 01:25:39,600
handwritten

2025
01:25:41,510 --> 01:25:40,719
okay

2026
01:25:44,390 --> 01:25:41,520
so

2027
01:25:46,870 --> 01:25:44,400
there again we relied on the experts dr

2028
01:25:49,669 --> 01:25:46,880
david rudiak who has spent

2029
01:25:51,830 --> 01:25:49,679
more time on the rainy memo that telex

2030
01:25:55,189 --> 01:25:51,840
that general raymie is holding at the

2031
01:25:57,270 --> 01:25:55,199
balloon press conference rudiak has you

2032
01:25:58,470 --> 01:25:57,280
know spent

2033
01:26:01,590 --> 01:25:58,480
you know

2034
01:26:04,390 --> 01:26:01,600
20 years working on the raimi memo okay

2035
01:26:06,950 --> 01:26:04,400
so we he was our go-to person regarding

2036
01:26:10,310 --> 01:26:06,960
the placard we also went to dr donald

2037
01:26:13,030 --> 01:26:10,320
burleson who also has spent years

2038
01:26:15,669 --> 01:26:13,040
working on the ramy memo we also went to

2039
01:26:18,870 --> 01:26:15,679
studio macbeth which did all the 3d

2040
01:26:21,110 --> 01:26:18,880
imagery on the shroud of turin we went

2041
01:26:23,189 --> 01:26:21,120
to the pentagon and we went to a

2042
01:26:25,910 --> 01:26:23,199
specific colonel there who we have

2043
01:26:30,870 --> 01:26:25,920
worked with in the past and he had some

2044
01:26:31,910 --> 01:26:30,880
of his people who worked at uh

2045
01:26:38,790 --> 01:26:31,920
uh

2046
01:26:41,030 --> 01:26:38,800
um some of the flight control imagery

2047
01:26:44,070 --> 01:26:41,040
where they relied as far as on computer

2048
01:26:46,390 --> 01:26:44,080
enhancement imagery and so we were

2049
01:26:48,629 --> 01:26:46,400
looking again for their opinion

2050
01:26:50,790 --> 01:26:48,639
as far as on the placard

2051
01:26:53,030 --> 01:26:50,800
we worked as far as even overseas with

2052
01:26:55,510 --> 01:26:53,040
the summer of sources we had worked with

2053
01:26:58,070 --> 01:26:55,520
in the back so the point being stephen

2054
01:27:00,550 --> 01:26:58,080
nobody was able to read the placard

2055
01:27:03,990 --> 01:27:00,560
didn't matter who because the consensus

2056
01:27:06,310 --> 01:27:04,000
was this is script it's hand written

2057
01:27:09,189 --> 01:27:06,320
there's just no way that you're going to

2058
01:27:11,430 --> 01:27:09,199
be able to decipher uh hand

2059
01:27:13,669 --> 01:27:11,440
writing unless you know exactly who the

2060
01:27:15,910 --> 01:27:13,679
handwriting the handwriter was and if

2061
01:27:17,270 --> 01:27:15,920
you had more examples from that very

2062
01:27:18,550 --> 01:27:17,280
person okay

2063
01:27:21,030 --> 01:27:18,560
so

2064
01:27:23,910 --> 01:27:21,040
again we accepted the position the

2065
01:27:26,629 --> 01:27:23,920
unanimous position of all the scientists

2066
01:27:27,910 --> 01:27:26,639
all the experts that we had called on

2067
01:27:30,870 --> 01:27:27,920
well

2068
01:27:33,510 --> 01:27:30,880
mexico city and then we find out

2069
01:27:35,669 --> 01:27:33,520
well you guys weren't shown or you were

2070
01:27:36,950 --> 01:27:35,679
provided all the slides there was a

2071
01:27:39,750 --> 01:27:36,960
third slide

2072
01:27:41,669 --> 01:27:39,760
and it shows a museum setting a museum

2073
01:27:44,229 --> 01:27:41,679
background

2074
01:27:45,669 --> 01:27:44,239
and then you weren't shown the actual

2075
01:27:49,669 --> 01:27:45,679
placard

2076
01:27:52,310 --> 01:27:49,679
text

2077
01:27:53,110 --> 01:27:52,320
it's easily red

2078
01:27:54,149 --> 01:27:53,120
so

2079
01:27:55,270 --> 01:27:54,159
we were

2080
01:27:58,950 --> 01:27:55,280
lied to

2081
01:28:01,510 --> 01:27:58,960
we were scammed from the beginning

2082
01:28:03,189 --> 01:28:01,520
and the people who own the slides

2083
01:28:07,750 --> 01:28:03,199
received a

2084
01:28:10,550 --> 01:28:07,760
big a high amount of money

2085
01:28:12,950 --> 01:28:10,560
and it was never recovered

2086
01:28:14,390 --> 01:28:12,960
so then that makes us

2087
01:28:18,310 --> 01:28:14,400
also question

2088
01:28:21,510 --> 01:28:18,320
if the very people who staged who put on

2089
01:28:23,430 --> 01:28:21,520
the entire affair in mexico city were

2090
01:28:25,669 --> 01:28:23,440
also in on it

2091
01:28:27,750 --> 01:28:25,679
yeah absolutely and honestly when i

2092
01:28:29,910 --> 01:28:27,760
heard who was running that i had i had a

2093
01:28:32,149 --> 01:28:29,920
lot of skepticism right away

2094
01:28:33,750 --> 01:28:32,159
he uh and not mentioning his name

2095
01:28:35,590 --> 01:28:33,760
because it's not going to come back to

2096
01:28:38,790 --> 01:28:35,600
me that don why did you say that well

2097
01:28:41,510 --> 01:28:38,800
the point being okay then why did you

2098
01:28:44,470 --> 01:28:41,520
not go after the owners of the slides

2099
01:28:47,270 --> 01:28:44,480
and recover your losses your money i

2100
01:28:50,550 --> 01:28:47,280
mean you paid them tens of thousands of

2101
01:28:53,590 --> 01:28:50,560
dollars and after the fact you said well

2102
01:28:54,790 --> 01:28:53,600
i guess i just truck it up to a law well

2103
01:28:57,910 --> 01:28:54,800
no no

2104
01:29:00,310 --> 01:28:57,920
if you were just as much a victim as we

2105
01:29:02,390 --> 01:29:00,320
were then why didn't you sue them why

2106
01:29:03,750 --> 01:29:02,400
didn't you go after them so then we

2107
01:29:06,229 --> 01:29:03,760
realized

2108
01:29:07,669 --> 01:29:06,239
that they were all in on it they were

2109
01:29:11,110 --> 01:29:07,679
all in on it

2110
01:29:13,189 --> 01:29:11,120
and um

2111
01:29:15,430 --> 01:29:13,199
the whole event was pretty unfortunate

2112
01:29:17,350 --> 01:29:15,440
and it comes down to like a pay-per-view

2113
01:29:18,470 --> 01:29:17,360
event where they made a lot of money

2114
01:29:19,270 --> 01:29:18,480
everybody

2115
01:29:21,030 --> 01:29:19,280
you know

2116
01:29:23,590 --> 01:29:21,040
these these people that were running the

2117
01:29:26,629 --> 01:29:23,600
con made a great deal of money it's very

2118
01:29:28,470 --> 01:29:26,639
evident about that it's unfortunate but

2119
01:29:29,910 --> 01:29:28,480
they made money awesome

2120
01:29:33,910 --> 01:29:29,920
they made a lot more money off of the

2121
01:29:35,910 --> 01:29:33,920
live stream we did not make a dime um

2122
01:29:38,950 --> 01:29:35,920
i was owed money

2123
01:29:40,709 --> 01:29:38,960
from a previous uh

2124
01:29:43,510 --> 01:29:40,719
documentary

2125
01:29:44,629 --> 01:29:43,520
and a lecture i had lectured in mexico

2126
01:29:46,550 --> 01:29:44,639
city

2127
01:29:49,350 --> 01:29:46,560
and it was under the agreement that i

2128
01:29:51,510 --> 01:29:49,360
would be paid a specific honorarium

2129
01:29:54,470 --> 01:29:51,520
i was not paid

2130
01:29:56,709 --> 01:29:54,480
so i was paid in mexico city so i

2131
01:30:01,510 --> 01:29:56,719
recovered that portion of it this

2132
01:30:02,390 --> 01:30:01,520
documentary i mentioned they had agreed

2133
01:30:06,149 --> 01:30:02,400
that

2134
01:30:08,629 --> 01:30:06,159
if they could film an archaeological dig

2135
01:30:10,310 --> 01:30:08,639
it was the fourth one we had at the

2136
01:30:14,470 --> 01:30:10,320
debris field site

2137
01:30:17,669 --> 01:30:14,480
and because we funded it on our own

2138
01:30:20,470 --> 01:30:17,679
the same person agreed that he would pay

2139
01:30:23,189 --> 01:30:20,480
a portion of that project

2140
01:30:26,310 --> 01:30:23,199
provided we would allow them

2141
01:30:27,270 --> 01:30:26,320
an exclusive filming of the event which

2142
01:30:30,390 --> 01:30:27,280
i did

2143
01:30:33,270 --> 01:30:30,400
and so i was also that was part i was

2144
01:30:36,310 --> 01:30:33,280
all the other part of the the pay that i

2145
01:30:37,270 --> 01:30:36,320
was provided for mexico city so i broke

2146
01:30:41,990 --> 01:30:37,280
even

2147
01:30:44,229 --> 01:30:42,000
i got my money that i was owed

2148
01:30:46,950 --> 01:30:44,239
and the point is they made a lot of

2149
01:30:49,590 --> 01:30:46,960
money off of the event for putting on

2150
01:30:52,149 --> 01:30:49,600
this carnival for putting on this circus

2151
01:30:54,709 --> 01:30:52,159
and perpetrating this hoax and ladies

2152
01:30:56,149 --> 01:30:54,719
and gentlemen i put out a public apology

2153
01:30:58,070 --> 01:30:56,159
it was a hoax

2154
01:31:00,950 --> 01:30:58,080
we did we performed due diligence

2155
01:31:01,750 --> 01:31:00,960
because we relied on the scientists who

2156
01:31:11,669 --> 01:31:01,760
were

2157
01:31:13,669 --> 01:31:11,679
victims i should say of the same folks

2158
01:31:15,110 --> 01:31:13,679
yeah it's unfortunate and i i honestly i

2159
01:31:16,629 --> 01:31:15,120
think you got a really bad rap

2160
01:31:18,310 --> 01:31:16,639
considering all the incredible work that

2161
01:31:20,149 --> 01:31:18,320
you did and the fact that you're relying

2162
01:31:23,030 --> 01:31:20,159
on these experts that are saying hey

2163
01:31:24,070 --> 01:31:23,040
looks looks genuine we're you know what

2164
01:31:30,470 --> 01:31:24,080
i survived

2165
01:31:33,030 --> 01:31:30,480
put out a public apology and uh

2166
01:31:35,030 --> 01:31:33,040
i i i think i'm better for it

2167
01:31:39,350 --> 01:31:35,040
in that i'm more wary

2168
01:31:40,709 --> 01:31:39,360
i'm i realize that science is not the

2169
01:31:43,590 --> 01:31:40,719
last word

2170
01:31:46,550 --> 01:31:43,600
that i i'm much more skeptical of the

2171
01:31:48,709 --> 01:31:46,560
scientific community i think that's good

2172
01:31:52,550 --> 01:31:48,719
because i think there's a long track

2173
01:31:53,910 --> 01:31:52,560
record of scientists who have fallen

2174
01:31:55,430 --> 01:31:53,920
for

2175
01:31:58,629 --> 01:31:55,440
such

2176
01:32:01,189 --> 01:31:58,639
efforts throughout history and did not

2177
01:32:05,110 --> 01:32:01,199
survive they did not recover from it and

2178
01:32:07,030 --> 01:32:05,120
i have i have i uh you know our roswell

2179
01:32:11,110 --> 01:32:07,040
work has continued

2180
01:32:13,430 --> 01:32:11,120
unabated and it's mainly because okay

2181
01:32:15,030 --> 01:32:13,440
you got us on that one but it's not

2182
01:32:17,510 --> 01:32:15,040
going to disqualify

2183
01:32:18,390 --> 01:32:17,520
all the witnesses all the death beds all

2184
01:32:21,430 --> 01:32:18,400
the

2185
01:32:24,310 --> 01:32:21,440
additional research we have

2186
01:32:26,550 --> 01:32:24,320
legitimately conducted on on the subject

2187
01:32:28,149 --> 01:32:26,560
and um

2188
01:32:31,910 --> 01:32:28,159
you know um

2189
01:32:34,149 --> 01:32:31,920
i'm a survivor i'm a survivor and um and

2190
01:32:35,990 --> 01:32:34,159
you'll always win

2191
01:32:37,990 --> 01:32:36,000
well and i don't like to lose yeah i

2192
01:32:39,910 --> 01:32:38,000
think i think like i said when i saw

2193
01:32:42,629 --> 01:32:39,920
this whole thing happen i listened to a

2194
01:32:43,990 --> 01:32:42,639
couple of uh you know i was following it

2195
01:32:45,270 --> 01:32:44,000
really closely and i listened to a

2196
01:32:46,790 --> 01:32:45,280
couple of things that you said and i

2197
01:32:49,270 --> 01:32:46,800
said well why is he gonna be in rap

2198
01:32:51,110 --> 01:32:49,280
because he just it's not deserve it it's

2199
01:32:52,470 --> 01:32:51,120
really not deserve it so

2200
01:32:54,149 --> 01:32:52,480
you're very quiet you're very kind

2201
01:32:55,990 --> 01:32:54,159
stephen yeah i'm sorry that you i'm

2202
01:32:58,229 --> 01:32:56,000
sorry that you went through that because

2203
01:32:59,910 --> 01:32:58,239
oh that's it's really not fair it's

2204
01:33:02,310 --> 01:32:59,920
really not fair there's so many people

2205
01:33:03,030 --> 01:33:02,320
out there that are pushing hoaxes

2206
01:33:05,270 --> 01:33:03,040
and

2207
01:33:06,950 --> 01:33:05,280
boy i could talk to you in so much

2208
01:33:08,950 --> 01:33:06,960
length about some stuff

2209
01:33:10,950 --> 01:33:08,960
and they know it's a hoax well you

2210
01:33:12,709 --> 01:33:10,960
mentioned it they're told it's a hoax

2211
01:33:15,030 --> 01:33:12,719
that's proven it's a hoax they're still

2212
01:33:17,110 --> 01:33:15,040
out there selling it you you got you got

2213
01:33:19,270 --> 01:33:17,120
kind of caught up in this thing a lot of

2214
01:33:20,149 --> 01:33:19,280
people did including richard dolan a few

2215
01:33:23,669 --> 01:33:20,159
others

2216
01:33:26,070 --> 01:33:23,679
very credible people and and i was very

2217
01:33:27,669 --> 01:33:26,080
respectful that you had the you know

2218
01:33:29,910 --> 01:33:27,679
that you you said hey here's what

2219
01:33:32,629 --> 01:33:29,920
happened this is my explanation i

2220
01:33:34,229 --> 01:33:32,639
apologize and let's move on and i think

2221
01:33:37,270 --> 01:33:34,239
that's great that you could do that and

2222
01:33:39,030 --> 01:33:37,280
that's that's the way it should be and

2223
01:33:41,750 --> 01:33:39,040
just a few other comments

2224
01:33:42,950 --> 01:33:41,760
no one is ever going to find anywhere in

2225
01:33:45,189 --> 01:33:42,960
print

2226
01:33:47,750 --> 01:33:45,199
or on tape

2227
01:33:49,189 --> 01:33:47,760
that uh that i stated

2228
01:33:50,390 --> 01:33:49,199
that this had anything to do with

2229
01:33:52,790 --> 01:33:50,400
roswell

2230
01:33:54,550 --> 01:33:52,800
no one is going to find anywhere that i

2231
01:33:58,229 --> 01:33:54,560
made the claim that this was an alien

2232
01:34:00,870 --> 01:33:58,239
body no one is going to find anywhere

2233
01:34:01,910 --> 01:34:00,880
that i ever said that this was a smoking

2234
01:34:05,110 --> 01:34:01,920
gun

2235
01:34:06,870 --> 01:34:05,120
i kept i continually used the word if it

2236
01:34:09,750 --> 01:34:06,880
could be proven

2237
01:34:13,430 --> 01:34:09,760
if it could be established if

2238
01:34:16,790 --> 01:34:13,440
the entire providence of the slides

2239
01:34:19,430 --> 01:34:16,800
could be finally determined then and

2240
01:34:22,390 --> 01:34:19,440
only then would i be willing to accept

2241
01:34:23,750 --> 01:34:22,400
that this was something extraordinary

2242
01:34:27,030 --> 01:34:23,760
i was very

2243
01:34:29,750 --> 01:34:27,040
cautious throughout in fact my partner

2244
01:34:32,790 --> 01:34:29,760
tom carey could describe

2245
01:34:35,750 --> 01:34:32,800
in detail how in january before the may

2246
01:34:38,070 --> 01:34:35,760
event in mexico city i seriously talked

2247
01:34:39,669 --> 01:34:38,080
to him about bailing i was having more

2248
01:34:42,629 --> 01:34:39,679
and more doubts

2249
01:34:45,350 --> 01:34:42,639
because i felt we were not

2250
01:34:47,830 --> 01:34:45,360
being provided with accurate information

2251
01:34:50,629 --> 01:34:47,840
by the owners of the slides

2252
01:34:53,669 --> 01:34:50,639
and so uh he could also tell you that at

2253
01:34:54,470 --> 01:34:53,679
the very event itself if you were to go

2254
01:34:57,830 --> 01:34:54,480
back

2255
01:35:00,390 --> 01:34:57,840
and actually watch the presentation

2256
01:35:02,550 --> 01:35:00,400
of tom carrey and myself

2257
01:35:04,790 --> 01:35:02,560
he says almost i mean he puts on almost

2258
01:35:06,550 --> 01:35:04,800
the entire presentation

2259
01:35:08,950 --> 01:35:06,560
i say very little

2260
01:35:10,550 --> 01:35:08,960
because i'm standing there sick to my

2261
01:35:13,109 --> 01:35:10,560
stomach

2262
01:35:15,590 --> 01:35:13,119
and then the next day in jaime messiah

2263
01:35:18,870 --> 01:35:15,600
i'll put it this way i was in his office

2264
01:35:20,870 --> 01:35:18,880
the very next day and i demanded to see

2265
01:35:22,229 --> 01:35:20,880
the third slide that we have never been

2266
01:35:23,990 --> 01:35:22,239
shown before

2267
01:35:26,709 --> 01:35:24,000
and he immediately asked

2268
01:35:31,030 --> 01:35:26,719
why do you need to see it

2269
01:35:33,430 --> 01:35:31,040
and i said just show it to me

2270
01:35:35,270 --> 01:35:33,440
and i knew right there and then it was

2271
01:35:36,470 --> 01:35:35,280
it was over it was done

2272
01:35:41,109 --> 01:35:36,480
we had

2273
01:35:42,950 --> 01:35:41,119
yeah it's awful that that happened but

2274
01:35:45,189 --> 01:35:42,960
i'm glad that you're moving forward and

2275
01:35:45,990 --> 01:35:45,199
continuing with great research and great

2276
01:35:50,390 --> 01:35:46,000
work

2277
01:35:51,830 --> 01:35:50,400
this every day can you tell us can you

2278
01:35:53,669 --> 01:35:51,840
tell me what is it that you've been

2279
01:35:55,189 --> 01:35:53,679
working on lately because i don't think

2280
01:35:56,950 --> 01:35:55,199
that i've heard you talk about what's

2281
01:35:59,030 --> 01:35:56,960
been going on lately with you and what

2282
01:36:01,030 --> 01:35:59,040
is what is keeping you going and what

2283
01:36:03,510 --> 01:36:01,040
are you working on

2284
01:36:04,950 --> 01:36:03,520
there are still

2285
01:36:07,430 --> 01:36:04,960
high

2286
01:36:09,189 --> 01:36:07,440
hopes that

2287
01:36:12,550 --> 01:36:09,199
there's a piece of physical evidence out

2288
01:36:15,270 --> 01:36:12,560
there and i'm not talking about within

2289
01:36:17,510 --> 01:36:15,280
government possession

2290
01:36:18,390 --> 01:36:17,520
whether it be corporate

2291
01:36:19,910 --> 01:36:18,400
or

2292
01:36:22,470 --> 01:36:19,920
privately

2293
01:36:23,750 --> 01:36:22,480
that there is still a piece of that holy

2294
01:36:26,629 --> 01:36:23,760
grail

2295
01:36:29,270 --> 01:36:26,639
that would again prove this overnight

2296
01:36:31,750 --> 01:36:29,280
so we are constantly working on

2297
01:36:35,189 --> 01:36:31,760
different leads within different

2298
01:36:38,550 --> 01:36:35,199
families who are originally involved and

2299
01:36:42,070 --> 01:36:38,560
we can't we we just keep you know

2300
01:36:44,709 --> 01:36:42,080
staying in contact we keep trying to you

2301
01:36:46,470 --> 01:36:44,719
know stir the pot every so often just to

2302
01:36:49,830 --> 01:36:46,480
get reactions

2303
01:36:50,629 --> 01:36:49,840
and see if we are correct

2304
01:36:59,910 --> 01:36:50,639
in

2305
01:37:02,870 --> 01:36:59,920
uh operation paper clip

2306
01:37:05,350 --> 01:37:02,880
involved all the the german scientists

2307
01:37:06,470 --> 01:37:05,360
that were brought over to the united

2308
01:37:08,709 --> 01:37:06,480
states

2309
01:37:11,350 --> 01:37:08,719
after world war ii

2310
01:37:13,510 --> 01:37:11,360
and we're finding more and more

2311
01:37:16,070 --> 01:37:13,520
of these specific

2312
01:37:17,270 --> 01:37:16,080
individuals who were brought in the

2313
01:37:19,109 --> 01:37:17,280
roswell

2314
01:37:22,229 --> 01:37:19,119
to look at the

2315
01:37:23,189 --> 01:37:22,239
evidence to examine the wreckage

2316
01:37:25,350 --> 01:37:23,199
we

2317
01:37:27,590 --> 01:37:25,360
recount some of that in the current book

2318
01:37:30,149 --> 01:37:27,600
on right path and even since the book

2319
01:37:33,510 --> 01:37:30,159
has come out we're finding additional

2320
01:37:36,310 --> 01:37:33,520
family testimony who received deathbed

2321
01:37:39,669 --> 01:37:36,320
confirmation that yes

2322
01:37:43,270 --> 01:37:39,679
their fathers their grandfathers

2323
01:37:45,990 --> 01:37:43,280
conceded before passing that they were

2324
01:37:47,590 --> 01:37:46,000
brought over to roswell to examine the

2325
01:37:50,390 --> 01:37:47,600
wreckage

2326
01:37:53,430 --> 01:37:50,400
so we're we're finding a whole new angle

2327
01:37:54,229 --> 01:37:53,440
of involvement that they risk bringing

2328
01:37:58,070 --> 01:37:54,239
in

2329
01:38:01,510 --> 01:37:58,080
the nazi scientists to also take a look

2330
01:38:02,950 --> 01:38:01,520
at this wreckage at roswell in 1947 when

2331
01:38:04,149 --> 01:38:02,960
nobody was supposed to know they were

2332
01:38:05,830 --> 01:38:04,159
even here

2333
01:38:08,229 --> 01:38:05,840
that was just you know the one of the

2334
01:38:11,350 --> 01:38:08,239
ultimate secrets of all time the fact

2335
01:38:12,790 --> 01:38:11,360
that we took all those nazi german

2336
01:38:15,430 --> 01:38:12,800
scientists

2337
01:38:16,790 --> 01:38:15,440
and we brought them here i was i always

2338
01:38:18,629 --> 01:38:16,800
found this paper clip thing to be

2339
01:38:20,070 --> 01:38:18,639
extremely interesting especially because

2340
01:38:23,030 --> 01:38:20,080
they formed the backbone of what would

2341
01:38:24,709 --> 01:38:23,040
become nasa later first scooped them up

2342
01:38:25,510 --> 01:38:24,719
and we said you're going to work for us

2343
01:38:27,830 --> 01:38:25,520
now

2344
01:38:30,229 --> 01:38:27,840
exactly

2345
01:38:32,550 --> 01:38:30,239
past and forget about you being a nazi

2346
01:38:34,709 --> 01:38:32,560
we'll give you a new name in some cases

2347
01:38:38,470 --> 01:38:34,719
they did that and it was it's incredible

2348
01:38:41,430 --> 01:38:38,480
absolutely and now that we can also make

2349
01:38:43,510 --> 01:38:41,440
a roswell connection to paperclip and it

2350
01:38:44,390 --> 01:38:43,520
is again it isn't just speculation on

2351
01:38:46,790 --> 01:38:44,400
our part

2352
01:38:49,109 --> 01:38:46,800
it's firsthand it's second hand it's

2353
01:38:52,629 --> 01:38:49,119
from the very families who were involved

2354
01:38:55,109 --> 01:38:52,639
and so we're we're honing that

2355
01:38:56,950 --> 01:38:55,119
more and more as we continue to track

2356
01:38:59,109 --> 01:38:56,960
down more and more of those surviving

2357
01:39:01,189 --> 01:38:59,119
families and

2358
01:39:03,590 --> 01:39:01,199
we still continue we still are in

2359
01:39:05,750 --> 01:39:03,600
contact with the very families

2360
01:39:08,229 --> 01:39:05,760
who were involved the reluctant

2361
01:39:09,109 --> 01:39:08,239
witnesses with the hope that

2362
01:39:18,629 --> 01:39:09,119
the

2363
01:39:21,669 --> 01:39:18,639
yes my dad did finally admit yes my my

2364
01:39:23,270 --> 01:39:21,679
husband did finally confess

2365
01:39:26,709 --> 01:39:23,280
and so

2366
01:39:29,430 --> 01:39:26,719
we keep again a short list and then us a

2367
01:39:31,189 --> 01:39:29,440
secondary list as we keep we continue to

2368
01:39:33,590 --> 01:39:31,199
target these people

2369
01:39:34,790 --> 01:39:33,600
and we keep we continue to get leads as

2370
01:39:35,750 --> 01:39:34,800
i mentioned at the beginning of the

2371
01:39:37,910 --> 01:39:35,760
program

2372
01:39:39,750 --> 01:39:37,920
that even today again we were working on

2373
01:39:43,109 --> 01:39:39,760
two new leads and we followed up with

2374
01:39:45,430 --> 01:39:43,119
phone calls and we acquired some

2375
01:39:48,070 --> 01:39:45,440
corroborative information

2376
01:39:51,350 --> 01:39:48,080
of what we really already knew but it

2377
01:39:54,870 --> 01:39:51,360
was further a verification on on that

2378
01:39:57,830 --> 01:39:54,880
piece of the puzzle so to speak we we

2379
01:40:00,149 --> 01:39:57,840
continue even uh working on some freedom

2380
01:40:04,310 --> 01:40:00,159
of information act requests not

2381
01:40:08,229 --> 01:40:04,320
specifically on roswell but when we have

2382
01:40:10,870 --> 01:40:08,239
a specific little tidbit of information

2383
01:40:14,070 --> 01:40:10,880
regarding some involvement with some

2384
01:40:18,229 --> 01:40:14,080
other project within the military

2385
01:40:20,870 --> 01:40:18,239
and if it helps us further verify that

2386
01:40:22,550 --> 01:40:20,880
said individual was

2387
01:40:24,709 --> 01:40:22,560
then involved

2388
01:40:26,149 --> 01:40:24,719
with that project and then vis-a-vis

2389
01:40:27,189 --> 01:40:26,159
then they would have been involved with

2390
01:40:29,270 --> 01:40:27,199
roswell

2391
01:40:31,910 --> 01:40:29,280
we can we can then

2392
01:40:36,310 --> 01:40:31,920
draw that we can draw the two together

2393
01:40:38,229 --> 01:40:36,320
so it you see how it again it involves

2394
01:40:40,310 --> 01:40:38,239
like i keep saying i use the analogy

2395
01:40:41,910 --> 01:40:40,320
it's like we're investigating a crime

2396
01:40:43,830 --> 01:40:41,920
minus a crime

2397
01:40:45,750 --> 01:40:43,840
that it's like we have this unsolved

2398
01:40:48,870 --> 01:40:45,760
this cold case

2399
01:40:50,870 --> 01:40:48,880
now over 70 years old and we're still

2400
01:40:53,750 --> 01:40:50,880
trying to solve it

2401
01:40:57,030 --> 01:40:53,760
it's still a fluid investigation in that

2402
01:41:00,070 --> 01:40:57,040
regard as we discussed earlier the the

2403
01:41:03,510 --> 01:41:00,080
undertaker has just about taken away

2404
01:41:04,550 --> 01:41:03,520
every final firsthand source that we've

2405
01:41:07,189 --> 01:41:04,560
had

2406
01:41:11,669 --> 01:41:07,199
and i i can't tell you stephen how often

2407
01:41:14,470 --> 01:41:11,679
the frustration when you finally track

2408
01:41:18,229 --> 01:41:14,480
down the whereabouts of someone

2409
01:41:20,550 --> 01:41:18,239
significant someone who was was truly or

2410
01:41:22,950 --> 01:41:20,560
most likely involved and you find out

2411
01:41:25,590 --> 01:41:22,960
they just died a year before

2412
01:41:28,390 --> 01:41:25,600
yeah that's a terrible law justice die

2413
01:41:31,270 --> 01:41:28,400
terrible law that's four months before

2414
01:41:32,390 --> 01:41:31,280
or in one case we call up one witnesses

2415
01:41:33,990 --> 01:41:32,400
family

2416
01:41:35,910 --> 01:41:34,000
and they were just returning from the

2417
01:41:38,950 --> 01:41:35,920
funeral

2418
01:41:41,910 --> 01:41:38,960
so it's gone forever whatever

2419
01:41:43,990 --> 01:41:41,920
information they had and that's the just

2420
01:41:46,550 --> 01:41:44,000
the ultimate that's another thing that

2421
01:41:48,950 --> 01:41:46,560
most people have never experienced when

2422
01:41:50,149 --> 01:41:48,960
you lose someone

2423
01:41:54,310 --> 01:41:50,159
just

2424
01:41:57,990 --> 01:41:54,320
as far as at that stage in their lives

2425
01:42:00,470 --> 01:41:58,000
and to then have to accept

2426
01:42:04,550 --> 01:42:00,480
it's gone forever

2427
01:42:06,709 --> 01:42:04,560
yeah i suppose unless they spoke to

2428
01:42:09,030 --> 01:42:06,719
their family you're right it's just gone

2429
01:42:11,430 --> 01:42:09,040
it's definitely gone and it's i think

2430
01:42:12,229 --> 01:42:11,440
it's a huge loss because each one of

2431
01:42:14,790 --> 01:42:12,239
those

2432
01:42:17,510 --> 01:42:14,800
pieces that puzzle could be the final

2433
01:42:20,950 --> 01:42:17,520
piece to put it all together or you know

2434
01:42:26,709 --> 01:42:23,750
i guess uh you know i wanted to ask you

2435
01:42:30,229 --> 01:42:26,719
uh about where my listeners can buy your

2436
01:42:32,550 --> 01:42:30,239
books and where they can contact you

2437
01:42:35,350 --> 01:42:32,560
well i'll be happy to

2438
01:42:38,070 --> 01:42:35,360
give all that information first of all

2439
01:42:40,070 --> 01:42:38,080
certainly amazon books

2440
01:42:42,550 --> 01:42:40,080
certainly barnes and noble

2441
01:42:44,390 --> 01:42:42,560
any fine bookstores

2442
01:42:45,590 --> 01:42:44,400
throughout the country

2443
01:42:49,270 --> 01:42:45,600
and

2444
01:42:52,550 --> 01:42:49,280
our website is roswell investigator one

2445
01:42:55,189 --> 01:42:52,560
word roswell investigator.com

2446
01:42:57,189 --> 01:42:55,199
and then i always i also recommend that

2447
01:42:59,030 --> 01:42:57,199
you can also get our books

2448
01:43:02,950 --> 01:42:59,040
at the virtual store at the

2449
01:43:03,830 --> 01:43:02,960
international ufo museum and research

2450
01:43:06,550 --> 01:43:03,840
center

2451
01:43:09,990 --> 01:43:06,560
so our museum in roswell

2452
01:43:11,830 --> 01:43:10,000
which draws a quarter million people a

2453
01:43:15,669 --> 01:43:11,840
year

2454
01:43:17,510 --> 01:43:15,679
so another reason that even post roswell

2455
01:43:20,550 --> 01:43:17,520
and i don't call them roswell slides

2456
01:43:23,910 --> 01:43:20,560
that was another thing that we tried to

2457
01:43:26,070 --> 01:43:23,920
you know dip in the bud very early on

2458
01:43:28,390 --> 01:43:26,080
because it was the skeptics

2459
01:43:29,510 --> 01:43:28,400
who were quickly trying to create the

2460
01:43:32,229 --> 01:43:29,520
domain

2461
01:43:35,590 --> 01:43:32,239
of roswell slides to make sure that they

2462
01:43:37,430 --> 01:43:35,600
always had the final word on the

2463
01:43:39,189 --> 01:43:37,440
situation

2464
01:43:41,030 --> 01:43:39,199
roswell had nothing to do with those

2465
01:43:43,109 --> 01:43:41,040
slides and even

2466
01:43:45,990 --> 01:43:43,119
less than ever as far as

2467
01:43:47,830 --> 01:43:46,000
just a final caveat on that and the

2468
01:43:49,990 --> 01:43:47,840
other thing um

2469
01:43:51,510 --> 01:43:50,000
is if anybody wants to contact me

2470
01:43:57,149 --> 01:43:51,520
personally

2471
01:44:00,430 --> 01:43:58,950
s-c-h-m-i-t-t

2472
01:44:06,870 --> 01:44:00,440
at

2473
01:44:08,629 --> 01:44:06,880
every question i get

2474
01:44:10,310 --> 01:44:08,639
well i just want to take a moment to

2475
01:44:12,470 --> 01:44:10,320
thank you so much for taking the time to

2476
01:44:15,189 --> 01:44:12,480
talk to me you said you never lose you

2477
01:44:18,149 --> 01:44:15,199
don't like losing this is one time when

2478
01:44:19,590 --> 01:44:18,159
i truly hope you win

2479
01:44:21,910 --> 01:44:19,600
well it's

2480
01:44:24,950 --> 01:44:21,920
very much appreciated stephen let's do

2481
01:44:28,070 --> 01:44:24,960
it again sometime in the the future and

2482
01:44:30,390 --> 01:44:28,080
i'll guarantee that uh we'll have

2483
01:44:31,590 --> 01:44:30,400
more material more information more to

2484
01:44:35,109 --> 01:44:31,600
discuss

2485
01:44:38,390 --> 01:44:35,119
and uh as one final comment

2486
01:44:39,510 --> 01:44:38,400
it it's never mattered to me

2487
01:44:40,629 --> 01:44:39,520
being

2488
01:44:43,189 --> 01:44:40,639
the winner

2489
01:44:44,470 --> 01:44:43,199
the ultimate winner because no matter

2490
01:44:45,830 --> 01:44:44,480
who wins

2491
01:44:48,390 --> 01:44:45,840
we all win

2492
01:44:50,709 --> 01:44:48,400
whoever wins this whoever succeeds and

2493
01:44:53,270 --> 01:44:50,719
pile up and finally proving this we all

2494
01:44:55,830 --> 01:44:53,280
win i just want to be at the finish line

2495
01:44:59,189 --> 01:44:55,840
that's all i ask

2496
01:45:02,709 --> 01:44:59,199
well mr schmidt i for one hope that you

2497
01:45:04,790 --> 01:45:02,719
get there and i hope you win

2498
01:45:07,430 --> 01:45:04,800
you've done an incredible amount of work

2499
01:45:08,310 --> 01:45:07,440
into this case more than anyone that i

2500
01:45:09,910 --> 01:45:08,320
know

2501
01:45:11,669 --> 01:45:09,920
and i'm so thankful that you could be

2502
01:45:14,390 --> 01:45:11,679
here on our show and share your

2503
01:45:18,070 --> 01:45:14,400
tremendous knowledge and expertise into

2504
01:45:23,430 --> 01:45:18,080
this roswell mystery with me and my

2505
01:45:29,430 --> 01:45:26,229
greetings and salutations and thank you

2506
01:45:30,390 --> 01:45:29,440
for being here for the 75th roswell

2507
01:45:33,109 --> 01:45:30,400
anniversary

2508
01:45:34,709 --> 01:45:33,119
truth seeker special deep dive

2509
01:45:36,310 --> 01:45:34,719
if you're new to the channel please be

2510
01:45:38,870 --> 01:45:36,320
sure to subscribe and hit that

2511
01:45:40,790 --> 01:45:38,880
notification bell so you too will know

2512
01:45:43,189 --> 01:45:40,800
about future special events you can

2513
01:45:45,510 --> 01:45:43,199
attend here i wanted to take a moment to

2514
01:45:47,669 --> 01:45:45,520
thank all of our kind and generous

2515
01:45:50,709 --> 01:45:47,679
benefactors because people all over the

2516
01:45:53,510 --> 01:45:50,719
world send a few bucks in in pledges

2517
01:45:55,910 --> 01:45:53,520
either through paypal or through the

2518
01:45:58,550 --> 01:45:55,920
super chat down there in the live chat

2519
01:46:01,910 --> 01:45:58,560
the money button super stickers

2520
01:46:03,590 --> 01:46:01,920
we have and take cash at pledges as well

2521
01:46:05,750 --> 01:46:03,600
i want to thank everybody who has signed

2522
01:46:07,510 --> 01:46:05,760
up to be a patreon member because for as

2523
01:46:10,229 --> 01:46:07,520
little as a dollar a month you can get

2524
01:46:12,470 --> 01:46:10,239
some extra content from us here

2525
01:46:15,350 --> 01:46:12,480
additionally i'd like to thank the

2526
01:46:17,510 --> 01:46:15,360
channel members who get a bunch of

2527
01:46:19,669 --> 01:46:17,520
youtube benefits as well as all the

2528
01:46:21,109 --> 01:46:19,679
patreon benefits for as little as five

2529
01:46:24,149 --> 01:46:21,119
dollars a month

2530
01:46:24,830 --> 01:46:24,159
i also wanted to mention uh that i have

2531
01:46:27,990 --> 01:46:24,840
uh

2532
01:46:30,709 --> 01:46:28,000
something strange for my friends these

2533
01:46:32,629 --> 01:46:30,719
are roswell

2534
01:46:33,590 --> 01:46:32,639
wreckage replicas

2535
01:46:35,910 --> 01:46:33,600
uh

2536
01:46:38,390 --> 01:46:35,920
which i have been making here i also

2537
01:46:41,510 --> 01:46:38,400
wanted to mention that for today's

2538
01:46:44,229 --> 01:46:41,520
special event we have prizes for those

2539
01:46:46,950 --> 01:46:44,239
of you pledging thirty dollars or more

2540
01:46:47,910 --> 01:46:46,960
either through cash app paypal or super

2541
01:46:48,950 --> 01:46:47,920
chat

2542
01:46:50,550 --> 01:46:48,960
uh and

2543
01:46:52,470 --> 01:46:50,560
this is a

2544
01:46:56,470 --> 01:46:52,480
gift that we will be sending everybody

2545
01:46:58,550 --> 01:46:56,480
who pledges 30 or more this is a roswell

2546
01:47:01,430 --> 01:46:58,560
debris replica

2547
01:47:05,510 --> 01:47:01,440
and it's designed to look exactly as

2548
01:47:08,709 --> 01:47:05,520
jesse marcel and his son had described

2549
01:47:09,990 --> 01:47:08,719
this is the so-called ib

2550
01:47:13,270 --> 01:47:10,000
wreckage

2551
01:47:15,750 --> 01:47:13,280
uh this is a replica of course uh and

2552
01:47:19,910 --> 01:47:15,760
i'm happy that i'll be able to offer

2553
01:47:22,149 --> 01:47:19,920
these to anybody pledging 30 or more

2554
01:47:23,990 --> 01:47:22,159
to our show today this is a just a

2555
01:47:26,310 --> 01:47:24,000
special free gift that we're going to be

2556
01:47:28,550 --> 01:47:26,320
giving you kind and generous people for

2557
01:47:35,010 --> 01:47:28,560
supporting our show

2558
01:48:20,670 --> 01:47:54,250
[Music]

2559
01:48:29,990 --> 01:48:20,680
[Applause]

2560
01:49:50,149 --> 01:48:30,000
[Music]

2561
01:49:54,149 --> 01:49:52,470
well greetings and salutations friends

2562
01:49:57,669 --> 01:49:54,159
and welcome back to truth seekers

2563
01:50:01,430 --> 01:49:57,679
tonight is another of our special events

2564
01:50:04,149 --> 01:50:01,440
in our new series revisiting roswell

2565
01:50:07,109 --> 01:50:04,159
i uh selfishly thought that i could use

2566
01:50:09,669 --> 01:50:07,119
the show here as a passport to talk to

2567
01:50:11,510 --> 01:50:09,679
some of the world's greatest experts on

2568
01:50:14,550 --> 01:50:11,520
the roswell event

2569
01:50:17,109 --> 01:50:14,560
so far we've heard from kalkor

2570
01:50:19,510 --> 01:50:17,119
we've heard from dr kevin randle

2571
01:50:22,310 --> 01:50:19,520
and walter bosley each with their own

2572
01:50:24,870 --> 01:50:22,320
perspective and beliefs

2573
01:50:26,149 --> 01:50:24,880
and research about just what might have

2574
01:50:29,750 --> 01:50:26,159
crashed

2575
01:50:31,270 --> 01:50:29,760
in 1947 in roswell new mexico

2576
01:50:32,950 --> 01:50:31,280
um

2577
01:50:35,109 --> 01:50:32,960
the two other people that i really

2578
01:50:39,109 --> 01:50:35,119
wanted to talk to i'm happy to say that

2579
01:50:42,629 --> 01:50:39,119
tonight we have uh mr tom carey and uh

2580
01:50:44,070 --> 01:50:42,639
uh coming up we'll have also uh his

2581
01:50:47,990 --> 01:50:44,080
writing partner

2582
01:50:49,669 --> 01:50:48,000
mr don schmidt on a future event here uh

2583
01:50:51,750 --> 01:50:49,679
without further ado i want to bring in

2584
01:50:53,589 --> 01:50:51,760
tonight's very special guest he's one of

2585
01:50:56,470 --> 01:50:53,599
my favorite authors you guys have heard

2586
01:50:59,030 --> 01:50:56,480
me mention these two books uh that he

2587
01:51:01,109 --> 01:50:59,040
was i wrote with mr schmidt called

2588
01:51:03,350 --> 01:51:01,119
witness to roswell and children of

2589
01:51:06,390 --> 01:51:03,360
roswell among others but those are two

2590
01:51:08,390 --> 01:51:06,400
of my favorite books on the event uh so

2591
01:51:11,270 --> 01:51:08,400
let's welcome him in here

2592
01:51:13,910 --> 01:51:11,280
there you go mr tom carey good to see

2593
01:51:15,750 --> 01:51:13,920
you good evening steven it's nice to be

2594
01:51:17,990 --> 01:51:15,760
with you this evening

2595
01:51:20,550 --> 01:51:18,000
i can't tell you how happy i am having

2596
01:51:23,030 --> 01:51:20,560
read a bunch of your books and listen to

2597
01:51:25,350 --> 01:51:23,040
uh so many of your interviews that i get

2598
01:51:27,109 --> 01:51:25,360
to to have you on my show it's a dream

2599
01:51:29,669 --> 01:51:27,119
come true for me thank you so much for

2600
01:51:32,629 --> 01:51:29,679
agreeing to do this first of all

2601
01:51:34,790 --> 01:51:32,639
well i hope i don't uh disappoint

2602
01:51:36,709 --> 01:51:34,800
no it's not always grumpy to talk about

2603
01:51:37,990 --> 01:51:36,719
roswell

2604
01:51:40,550 --> 01:51:38,000
i don't think that's that that's

2605
01:51:42,790 --> 01:51:40,560
possible so listen

2606
01:51:44,550 --> 01:51:42,800
we we there that people are hotly

2607
01:51:45,830 --> 01:51:44,560
debating everything in the live chat

2608
01:51:47,750 --> 01:51:45,840
already

2609
01:51:49,990 --> 01:51:47,760
one of the one of the things in our

2610
01:51:52,149 --> 01:51:50,000
series here that a lot of people

2611
01:51:55,109 --> 01:51:52,159
had a problem with including me

2612
01:51:56,870 --> 01:51:55,119
uh was mr kalkorf uh you know he wrote

2613
01:51:59,030 --> 01:51:56,880
the book the truth about roswell and he

2614
01:52:00,870 --> 01:51:59,040
claims it was just a mogul balloon and

2615
01:52:03,430 --> 01:52:00,880
all these stories were embellished or

2616
01:52:06,629 --> 01:52:03,440
made up i have a real problem with his

2617
01:52:08,390 --> 01:52:06,639
assertion of that mostly because i read

2618
01:52:11,030 --> 01:52:08,400
your two books especially witness to

2619
01:52:12,950 --> 01:52:11,040
roswell and children of roswell

2620
01:52:16,149 --> 01:52:12,960
i want you to talk about some of the

2621
01:52:18,229 --> 01:52:16,159
first-hand witnesses that you spoke with

2622
01:52:20,149 --> 01:52:18,239
and whether or not they were that you

2623
01:52:22,550 --> 01:52:20,159
believe that they were telling you the

2624
01:52:24,470 --> 01:52:22,560
truth or making up stories

2625
01:52:27,109 --> 01:52:24,480
as some people believe

2626
01:52:29,830 --> 01:52:27,119
well well stephen we uh don schmidt and

2627
01:52:33,270 --> 01:52:29,840
i have interviewed

2628
01:52:35,830 --> 01:52:33,280
over 600 first and second hand witnesses

2629
01:52:38,310 --> 01:52:35,840
to roswell

2630
01:52:45,910 --> 01:52:43,030
i can tell you as a fact that

2631
01:52:48,149 --> 01:52:45,920
most or all of the first-hand witnesses

2632
01:52:50,709 --> 01:52:48,159
uh are gone now

2633
01:52:53,510 --> 01:52:50,719
and uh we're only left with uh second

2634
01:52:56,149 --> 01:52:53,520
and third-hand witnesses mostly mostly

2635
01:52:59,189 --> 01:52:56,159
mostly uh children

2636
01:53:01,030 --> 01:52:59,199
and grandchildren

2637
01:53:04,470 --> 01:53:01,040
so

2638
01:53:07,109 --> 01:53:04,480
it's um to pick out the the best

2639
01:53:09,109 --> 01:53:07,119
witnesses uh it's uh

2640
01:53:11,750 --> 01:53:09,119
the way we look at it

2641
01:53:14,229 --> 01:53:11,760
is that uh

2642
01:53:15,830 --> 01:53:14,239
each witness is a little a little piece

2643
01:53:18,229 --> 01:53:15,840
of the puzzle

2644
01:53:20,870 --> 01:53:18,239
some are bigger pieces and others are

2645
01:53:23,270 --> 01:53:20,880
smaller pieces but nevertheless they all

2646
01:53:25,030 --> 01:53:23,280
fit into the the puzzle to make a

2647
01:53:28,149 --> 01:53:25,040
picture

2648
01:53:30,950 --> 01:53:28,159
and uh with 600 first and second hand

2649
01:53:32,629 --> 01:53:30,960
witnesses uh we believe that we have the

2650
01:53:35,030 --> 01:53:32,639
the picture

2651
01:53:39,910 --> 01:53:35,040
uh complete

2652
01:53:42,310 --> 01:53:39,920
or nearly 99 complete the the only thing

2653
01:53:45,430 --> 01:53:42,320
the only piece that we're missing

2654
01:53:46,709 --> 01:53:45,440
is an incontrovertible piece of physical

2655
01:53:48,310 --> 01:53:46,719
evidence

2656
01:53:51,030 --> 01:53:48,320
and that's the only thing that's missing

2657
01:53:53,430 --> 01:53:51,040
otherwise we do have the story

2658
01:53:55,510 --> 01:53:53,440
some of the most notable witnesses that

2659
01:53:57,430 --> 01:53:55,520
we interviewed

2660
01:53:59,830 --> 01:53:57,440
um

2661
01:54:02,709 --> 01:53:59,840
i would say uh

2662
01:54:05,750 --> 01:54:02,719
certainly certainly mac brazil's son the

2663
01:54:09,669 --> 01:54:05,760
rancher's son bill brazel

2664
01:54:12,629 --> 01:54:09,679
had a lot to tell us so edwin easley the

2665
01:54:14,870 --> 01:54:12,639
base provost marshall

2666
01:54:17,270 --> 01:54:14,880
was a key witness

2667
01:54:19,669 --> 01:54:17,280
and that was interviewed he was

2668
01:54:22,790 --> 01:54:19,679
interviewed by kevin randle

2669
01:54:24,470 --> 01:54:22,800
before i actually became an official

2670
01:54:27,910 --> 01:54:24,480
part of the team

2671
01:54:31,350 --> 01:54:27,920
along about 1991

2672
01:54:35,030 --> 01:54:31,360
and the thing about though edwin easley

2673
01:54:39,669 --> 01:54:36,790
was that uh

2674
01:54:40,950 --> 01:54:39,679
he was interviewed by randall at a time

2675
01:54:42,390 --> 01:54:40,960
when they were

2676
01:54:44,629 --> 01:54:42,400
still wondering

2677
01:54:47,830 --> 01:54:44,639
if they were really on the right track

2678
01:54:50,870 --> 01:54:47,840
of investigating roswell

2679
01:54:51,910 --> 01:54:50,880
as a ufo event and not not something

2680
01:54:54,149 --> 01:54:51,920
else

2681
01:54:56,790 --> 01:54:54,159
and uh

2682
01:54:59,910 --> 01:54:56,800
randall so randall interviews easily

2683
01:55:04,709 --> 01:55:02,790
and to every one of kevin's questions

2684
01:55:08,070 --> 01:55:04,719
easily answers like

2685
01:55:10,310 --> 01:55:08,080
i can't answer that i'm sworn to secrecy

2686
01:55:11,270 --> 01:55:10,320
i'm sworn to secret so every question

2687
01:55:12,070 --> 01:55:11,280
every

2688
01:55:13,910 --> 01:55:12,080
er

2689
01:55:15,589 --> 01:55:13,920
myself i would have given up at that

2690
01:55:17,189 --> 01:55:15,599
point

2691
01:55:20,390 --> 01:55:17,199
yeah

2692
01:55:22,709 --> 01:55:20,400
but uh kevin to his credit everlasting

2693
01:55:25,270 --> 01:55:22,719
credit he says um

2694
01:55:27,830 --> 01:55:25,280
he asks easily he says well

2695
01:55:30,149 --> 01:55:27,840
major easley i guess he's retired he's

2696
01:55:31,430 --> 01:55:30,159
retired as a lieutenant colonel doesn't

2697
01:55:32,950 --> 01:55:31,440
matter

2698
01:55:34,709 --> 01:55:32,960
but um

2699
01:55:37,510 --> 01:55:34,719
he says well can you tell us if we're on

2700
01:55:40,950 --> 01:55:37,520
the right track or not and easily

2701
01:55:43,430 --> 01:55:40,960
pauses for a second and he says uh

2702
01:55:45,430 --> 01:55:43,440
what do you mean by that and kevin says

2703
01:55:49,470 --> 01:55:45,440
well that it was a

2704
01:55:51,109 --> 01:55:49,480
that were investigating a ufo crash from

2705
01:55:53,750 --> 01:55:51,119
1947

2706
01:55:56,390 --> 01:55:53,760
so there's a long pause

2707
01:55:57,430 --> 01:55:56,400
and eastley says

2708
01:56:00,390 --> 01:55:57,440
well

2709
01:56:02,310 --> 01:56:00,400
let me say this you're not going on the

2710
01:56:05,270 --> 01:56:02,320
wrong track

2711
01:56:07,189 --> 01:56:05,280
exactly yeah so that at that point in

2712
01:56:09,350 --> 01:56:07,199
time in the investigation that was

2713
01:56:10,870 --> 01:56:09,360
absolutely critical

2714
01:56:13,990 --> 01:56:10,880
you have a

2715
01:56:16,950 --> 01:56:14,000
a fella who was on the base he was the

2716
01:56:19,910 --> 01:56:16,960
head of the mp unit there and

2717
01:56:22,310 --> 01:56:19,920
yeah he was at all the crash sites

2718
01:56:24,470 --> 01:56:22,320
there were three of them involved and he

2719
01:56:26,629 --> 01:56:24,480
uh

2720
01:56:29,430 --> 01:56:26,639
he was the head he was the provost

2721
01:56:31,430 --> 01:56:29,440
marshal head of the mp unit on the base

2722
01:56:33,510 --> 01:56:31,440
and so all of his

2723
01:56:35,350 --> 01:56:33,520
uh charges were

2724
01:56:37,830 --> 01:56:35,360
the ones that uh

2725
01:56:40,709 --> 01:56:37,840
cordoned off the uh area

2726
01:56:42,550 --> 01:56:40,719
surrounded the crash area and kept

2727
01:56:44,390 --> 01:56:42,560
people away from it so he

2728
01:56:49,350 --> 01:56:44,400
he was right there

2729
01:56:54,830 --> 01:56:51,910
was when he was on his deathbed

2730
01:57:00,950 --> 01:56:57,910
1992 and uh

2731
01:57:02,310 --> 01:57:00,960
he's been interviewed

2732
01:57:05,030 --> 01:57:02,320
by

2733
01:57:07,430 --> 01:57:05,040
uh i guess kevin randle and don schmidt

2734
01:57:08,870 --> 01:57:07,440
i i'm guessing both were there i'm not

2735
01:57:12,870 --> 01:57:08,880
sure

2736
01:57:14,950 --> 01:57:12,880
and uh parkland hospital in dallas texas

2737
01:57:17,270 --> 01:57:14,960
uh that's where president kennedy was

2738
01:57:19,430 --> 01:57:17,280
taken after he was assassinated when you

2739
01:57:22,149 --> 01:57:19,440
know when he was shot they removed him

2740
01:57:23,430 --> 01:57:22,159
to parkland hospital

2741
01:57:25,910 --> 01:57:23,440
so uh

2742
01:57:27,990 --> 01:57:25,920
all right he's gonna be breaking up

2743
01:57:29,189 --> 01:57:28,000
huh

2744
01:57:30,950 --> 01:57:29,199
i'm sorry

2745
01:57:33,189 --> 01:57:30,960
no it's okay you're back now you were

2746
01:57:36,830 --> 01:57:33,199
kind of breaking up there for a moment

2747
01:57:39,430 --> 01:57:38,390
uh

2748
01:57:41,510 --> 01:57:39,440
so

2749
01:57:44,550 --> 01:57:41,520
let me try let me try

2750
01:57:47,189 --> 01:57:44,560
easley's on his deathbed

2751
01:57:49,189 --> 01:57:47,199
and uh

2752
01:57:50,830 --> 01:57:49,199
randall and schmidt had just

2753
01:57:56,310 --> 01:57:50,840
published a book called the

2754
01:58:00,390 --> 01:57:56,320
truth about the ufo crash at roswell

2755
01:58:01,750 --> 01:58:00,400
and uh this is 19 uh well no i guess

2756
01:58:03,430 --> 01:58:01,760
they hadn't at that time if this was

2757
01:58:05,910 --> 01:58:03,440
1992

2758
01:58:08,390 --> 01:58:05,920
they still had the first book that they

2759
01:58:11,910 --> 01:58:08,400
had written together called ufo crash at

2760
01:58:13,270 --> 01:58:11,920
roswell a huge bestseller

2761
01:58:15,109 --> 01:58:13,280
and uh

2762
01:58:17,750 --> 01:58:15,119
so

2763
01:58:20,390 --> 01:58:17,760
easley's granddaughter comes in with the

2764
01:58:23,189 --> 01:58:20,400
copy of ufo crash at roswell

2765
01:58:25,270 --> 01:58:23,199
she holds it up to

2766
01:58:27,589 --> 01:58:25,280
the major

2767
01:58:30,070 --> 01:58:27,599
he's sitting up in his in his hospital

2768
01:58:31,750 --> 01:58:30,080
bed and he holds it up the cover of the

2769
01:58:33,669 --> 01:58:31,760
book

2770
01:58:35,669 --> 01:58:33,679
and he goes oh

2771
01:58:41,270 --> 01:58:35,679
the creatures

2772
01:58:44,149 --> 01:58:41,280
so he's talking about the bodies

2773
01:58:47,030 --> 01:58:44,159
so coming from edwin easily

2774
01:58:49,910 --> 01:58:47,040
you have the crashers ufo

2775
01:58:56,229 --> 01:58:52,870
so he is a key witness at least in my my

2776
01:58:59,430 --> 01:58:56,239
humble opinion he was a key witness

2777
01:59:02,709 --> 01:58:59,440
and there were others walter howe the

2778
01:59:05,109 --> 01:59:02,719
base uh public information officer

2779
01:59:07,589 --> 01:59:05,119
finally told everything that he knew in

2780
01:59:10,709 --> 01:59:07,599
a sealed statement after he passed away

2781
01:59:13,189 --> 01:59:10,719
in 2005.

2782
01:59:15,109 --> 01:59:13,199
uh let's see mack brazza was already

2783
01:59:19,189 --> 01:59:15,119
gone

2784
01:59:21,669 --> 01:59:19,199
did he died when they say that these

2785
01:59:24,390 --> 01:59:21,679
witnesses

2786
01:59:33,589 --> 01:59:25,990
yeah i was i was just

2787
01:59:37,189 --> 01:59:35,430
it doesn't make any sense to me

2788
01:59:39,030 --> 01:59:37,199
that somebody would be on their deathbed

2789
01:59:41,109 --> 01:59:39,040
and and suddenly start talking about

2790
01:59:44,390 --> 01:59:41,119
aliens

2791
01:59:47,750 --> 01:59:44,400
well uh stephen uh i can't answer for

2792
01:59:49,750 --> 01:59:47,760
the critics uh i don't think

2793
01:59:52,310 --> 01:59:49,760
if you're just sitting back in your

2794
01:59:55,830 --> 01:59:52,320
living room in an easy chair and uh

2795
01:59:59,990 --> 01:59:55,840
reading things you don't have a sense

2796
02:00:02,149 --> 02:00:00,000
from speaking with the actual witnesses

2797
02:00:03,750 --> 02:00:02,159
and if you interview enough of them you

2798
02:00:07,030 --> 02:00:03,760
get a sense

2799
02:00:09,750 --> 02:00:07,040
of what is true and what is not true

2800
02:00:11,270 --> 02:00:09,760
and that only comes with experience

2801
02:00:12,870 --> 02:00:11,280
so

2802
02:00:14,790 --> 02:00:12,880
i don't know what yeah and yours your

2803
02:00:16,870 --> 02:00:14,800
sense was that they were all being very

2804
02:00:18,470 --> 02:00:16,880
truthful right i mean you didn't you you

2805
02:00:20,950 --> 02:00:18,480
wouldn't include them in a book and talk

2806
02:00:21,910 --> 02:00:20,960
about them for years and their testimony

2807
02:00:23,990 --> 02:00:21,920
if you thought they were just

2808
02:00:26,870 --> 02:00:24,000
embellishing or making up stories

2809
02:00:28,950 --> 02:00:26,880
fantastical stories right we we do we do

2810
02:00:31,750 --> 02:00:28,960
mention a few

2811
02:00:35,270 --> 02:00:31,760
um what would you call them uh

2812
02:00:37,510 --> 02:00:35,280
disinformation people or uh

2813
02:00:40,870 --> 02:00:37,520
we we do mention a few of them in our

2814
02:00:43,109 --> 02:00:40,880
books most notably a fellow by the name

2815
02:00:45,750 --> 02:00:43,119
of frank kaufman

2816
02:00:47,669 --> 02:00:45,760
who really who really spun us some

2817
02:00:49,910 --> 02:00:47,679
stories

2818
02:00:54,470 --> 02:00:49,920
about being right in the eye of the

2819
02:00:59,430 --> 02:00:54,480
hurricane he was he and it was all

2820
02:01:05,350 --> 02:01:02,629
and tell and and determine that they're

2821
02:01:08,629 --> 02:01:05,360
not telling the truth are those

2822
02:01:10,629 --> 02:01:08,639
who were on the scene

2823
02:01:12,470 --> 02:01:10,639
pretty near the time so that they know

2824
02:01:15,189 --> 02:01:12,480
the lay of the land that they just plug

2825
02:01:19,350 --> 02:01:15,199
themselves into the story

2826
02:01:22,470 --> 02:01:19,360
and the two come to mind right away

2827
02:01:24,709 --> 02:01:22,480
what is frank kaufman

2828
02:01:26,709 --> 02:01:24,719
who was a

2829
02:01:29,189 --> 02:01:26,719
personnel clerk

2830
02:01:30,950 --> 02:01:29,199
he was a sergeant he was a personnel

2831
02:01:32,870 --> 02:01:30,960
clerk on the base

2832
02:01:34,870 --> 02:01:32,880
at the time

2833
02:01:37,910 --> 02:01:34,880
and he knew pretty much everybody on the

2834
02:01:40,629 --> 02:01:37,920
base so he could speak with a

2835
02:01:44,070 --> 02:01:40,639
offhand experience oh yeah i i knew

2836
02:01:46,390 --> 02:01:44,080
marcel i knew this guy i knew that guy i

2837
02:01:49,430 --> 02:01:46,400
know where that's at and you say oh my

2838
02:01:50,470 --> 02:01:49,440
god this guy he knows everything

2839
02:01:52,870 --> 02:01:50,480
well

2840
02:01:54,950 --> 02:01:52,880
uh it took us a while

2841
02:01:57,990 --> 02:01:54,960
but we finally

2842
02:01:59,189 --> 02:01:58,000
came to the conclusion he was full of it

2843
02:02:01,430 --> 02:01:59,199
that

2844
02:02:05,750 --> 02:02:01,440
he was spinning a tail

2845
02:02:08,310 --> 02:02:05,760
he put himself into it uh he

2846
02:02:11,030 --> 02:02:08,320
he never came across to me as an officer

2847
02:02:13,510 --> 02:02:11,040
but he said he was like a high officer

2848
02:02:16,390 --> 02:02:13,520
i was in the air force and

2849
02:02:19,589 --> 02:02:16,400
you know i i know a enlisted person from

2850
02:02:20,550 --> 02:02:19,599
an officer and he was not an officer

2851
02:02:22,070 --> 02:02:20,560
yeah

2852
02:02:24,149 --> 02:02:22,080
sometimes you can definitely tell the

2853
02:02:26,149 --> 02:02:24,159
difference between it was a grunt and a

2854
02:02:27,669 --> 02:02:26,159
guy who was an officer just by their

2855
02:02:30,390 --> 02:02:27,679
mannerisms and things like that i

2856
02:02:32,070 --> 02:02:30,400
remember my father was in the navy and

2857
02:02:33,990 --> 02:02:32,080
one time we're at some barbecue or

2858
02:02:36,870 --> 02:02:34,000
something and some guy was telling

2859
02:02:38,709 --> 02:02:36,880
stories about being like uh a captain of

2860
02:02:40,390 --> 02:02:38,719
a ship and my dad was like there's no

2861
02:02:42,790 --> 02:02:40,400
way on god's green earth that guy was a

2862
02:02:46,070 --> 02:02:42,800
captain he was yeah he was you know

2863
02:02:49,109 --> 02:02:46,080
enlisted man you can tell you can tell

2864
02:02:50,709 --> 02:02:49,119
the other thing he said was

2865
02:02:52,550 --> 02:02:50,719
the ones

2866
02:02:54,790 --> 02:02:52,560
crash site that

2867
02:02:57,109 --> 02:02:54,800
even the air force agreed that was a

2868
02:02:58,790 --> 02:02:57,119
that was the crash site the so-called

2869
02:03:00,629 --> 02:02:58,800
the so-called

2870
02:03:03,270 --> 02:03:00,639
debris field site

2871
02:03:05,189 --> 02:03:03,280
on the foster ranch even the air force

2872
02:03:07,510 --> 02:03:05,199
agreed that was the site

2873
02:03:09,990 --> 02:03:07,520
or the main site well

2874
02:03:12,310 --> 02:03:10,000
kaufman said well that was a salted site

2875
02:03:13,990 --> 02:03:12,320
meaning one that was uh

2876
02:03:16,070 --> 02:03:14,000
artificial people went there and they

2877
02:03:18,070 --> 02:03:16,080
threw things on the ground

2878
02:03:19,990 --> 02:03:18,080
metal pieces to make it appear that that

2879
02:03:23,189 --> 02:03:20,000
was a crash site and we're thinking what

2880
02:03:25,270 --> 02:03:23,199
is this guy talking about

2881
02:03:26,950 --> 02:03:25,280
we've got witnesses that tell us that

2882
02:03:28,790 --> 02:03:26,960
this is the site and even the air force

2883
02:03:32,390 --> 02:03:28,800
agrees that it was and he's trying to

2884
02:03:37,030 --> 02:03:35,030
so uh it just

2885
02:03:39,189 --> 02:03:37,040
from that point on we we finally said

2886
02:03:40,709 --> 02:03:39,199
what is what was he talking about and on

2887
02:03:43,750 --> 02:03:40,719
his deathbed

2888
02:03:47,589 --> 02:03:43,760
he died of bone cancer

2889
02:03:49,109 --> 02:03:47,599
don schmidt and i went to and said frank

2890
02:03:52,149 --> 02:03:49,119
why did you do it

2891
02:03:54,069 --> 02:03:52,159
tales

2892
02:03:56,550 --> 02:03:54,079
he said well

2893
02:03:59,109 --> 02:03:56,560
i didn't mean to it i didn't mean for it

2894
02:04:00,550 --> 02:03:59,119
to go this far but it got out of out of

2895
02:04:02,149 --> 02:04:00,560
control

2896
02:04:03,990 --> 02:04:02,159
so i guess he meant that he was going to

2897
02:04:06,470 --> 02:04:04,000
tell a little fib and then it just got

2898
02:04:08,790 --> 02:04:06,480
it mushroomed and got bigger and bigger

2899
02:04:10,709 --> 02:04:08,800
and bigger and he had tv cameras

2900
02:04:12,790 --> 02:04:10,719
knocking on his door

2901
02:04:14,550 --> 02:04:12,800
his name was known all over the place

2902
02:04:16,629 --> 02:04:14,560
they were offering him

2903
02:04:19,510 --> 02:04:16,639
many dollars to be interviewed and it

2904
02:04:21,830 --> 02:04:19,520
just just got out of control

2905
02:04:23,750 --> 02:04:21,840
and he also

2906
02:04:24,870 --> 02:04:23,760
the third thing was he pointed he took

2907
02:04:26,870 --> 02:04:24,880
us to

2908
02:04:28,310 --> 02:04:26,880
what he said was the so-called impact

2909
02:04:31,750 --> 02:04:28,320
site where the

2910
02:04:33,910 --> 02:04:31,760
final part of the ship came to rest

2911
02:04:36,470 --> 02:04:33,920
and he said this is the it was on the

2912
02:04:38,390 --> 02:04:36,480
core hubcorn ranch and

2913
02:04:39,750 --> 02:04:38,400
we had the tv cameras there and

2914
02:04:41,030 --> 02:04:39,760
everything

2915
02:04:43,990 --> 02:04:41,040
and uh

2916
02:04:45,990 --> 02:04:44,000
even phil class the great uh

2917
02:04:49,189 --> 02:04:46,000
uh yeah yeah

2918
02:04:52,069 --> 02:04:49,199
even he went there with us and uh

2919
02:04:54,069 --> 02:04:52,079
uh we're saying wait a minute there's no

2920
02:04:55,990 --> 02:04:54,079
way you can get a fire truck in here

2921
02:04:58,790 --> 02:04:56,000
because it was supposedly all these fire

2922
02:05:01,030 --> 02:04:58,800
trucks came and this thing was so

2923
02:05:02,310 --> 02:05:01,040
in the rugged terrain

2924
02:05:04,229 --> 02:05:02,320
uh

2925
02:05:06,550 --> 02:05:04,239
there's no way you could get fire trucks

2926
02:05:07,910 --> 02:05:06,560
in there this was a load

2927
02:05:09,669 --> 02:05:07,920
so uh

2928
02:05:11,270 --> 02:05:09,679
plus we might have been it must have

2929
02:05:13,510 --> 02:05:11,280
been really disappointing for you to

2930
02:05:15,830 --> 02:05:13,520
first think you had this expert witness

2931
02:05:16,550 --> 02:05:15,840
that was you know plugged in and and

2932
02:05:18,390 --> 02:05:16,560
knew

2933
02:05:19,109 --> 02:05:18,400
everything about the event because he

2934
02:05:22,870 --> 02:05:19,119
was

2935
02:05:25,030 --> 02:05:22,880
his background and went well this seems

2936
02:05:27,350 --> 02:05:25,040
like a good witness right but it must

2937
02:05:29,270 --> 02:05:27,360
have been disappointing for you well it

2938
02:05:30,229 --> 02:05:29,280
was disappointing

2939
02:05:31,669 --> 02:05:30,239
uh

2940
02:05:34,310 --> 02:05:31,679
to the case

2941
02:05:37,510 --> 02:05:34,320
because oh we got a ball look at this

2942
02:05:39,990 --> 02:05:37,520
car this game look we got a big we got a

2943
02:05:42,310 --> 02:05:40,000
a hoaxer here they're all hoaxers you

2944
02:05:45,589 --> 02:05:42,320
know that's the that's what happens uh

2945
02:05:47,589 --> 02:05:45,599
it wasn't it was disappointing

2946
02:05:50,149 --> 02:05:47,599
uh that when we realized that he was

2947
02:05:51,910 --> 02:05:50,159
lying you know why why are you feeling

2948
02:05:54,550 --> 02:05:51,920
that you have to lie

2949
02:05:57,109 --> 02:05:54,560
but if he doesn't change the case any it

2950
02:05:59,669 --> 02:05:57,119
i mean take him out of the case it's we

2951
02:06:02,069 --> 02:05:59,679
still have the case yeah it's not 600

2952
02:06:03,750 --> 02:06:02,079
other witnesses right so one's bad

2953
02:06:05,990 --> 02:06:03,760
that's sort of like i've heard a lot of

2954
02:06:08,069 --> 02:06:06,000
debunkers and negative people saying

2955
02:06:10,550 --> 02:06:08,079
mention him and say like see that guy

2956
02:06:13,030 --> 02:06:10,560
lied they all lied well that one out of

2957
02:06:15,030 --> 02:06:13,040
600 and you know it's like that old

2958
02:06:17,189 --> 02:06:15,040
saying one one rotten apple doesn't

2959
02:06:19,750 --> 02:06:17,199
spoil the basket you know that's right

2960
02:06:22,229 --> 02:06:19,760
they they uh the naysayers like to say

2961
02:06:24,790 --> 02:06:22,239
oh my goodness look at this guy he they

2962
02:06:26,629 --> 02:06:24,800
gay there's a hoaxer they're all hoaxers

2963
02:06:29,030 --> 02:06:26,639
and i've heard that so many times you

2964
02:06:32,310 --> 02:06:29,040
know what what can you say so instead of

2965
02:06:33,189 --> 02:06:32,320
600 witnesses we have 599

2966
02:06:34,229 --> 02:06:33,199
okay

2967
02:06:36,310 --> 02:06:34,239
so

2968
02:06:38,470 --> 02:06:36,320
yeah yeah it doesn't really discount the

2969
02:06:40,229 --> 02:06:38,480
rest of it right you know and then i

2970
02:06:43,030 --> 02:06:40,239
wanted to also talk

2971
02:06:44,870 --> 02:06:43,040
just dive into this children of roswell

2972
02:06:46,229 --> 02:06:44,880
book because again back to this point

2973
02:06:47,990 --> 02:06:46,239
that i'm trying to make when people say

2974
02:06:50,149 --> 02:06:48,000
that people just made this stuff up i

2975
02:06:51,430 --> 02:06:50,159
have a real problem with that because

2976
02:06:53,189 --> 02:06:51,440
you know like i don't know about other

2977
02:06:54,790 --> 02:06:53,199
people's parents but my parents

2978
02:06:56,550 --> 02:06:54,800
especially when they were near death

2979
02:06:58,790 --> 02:06:56,560
wouldn't just start making up stories

2980
02:07:01,510 --> 02:06:58,800
about alien bodies and stuff you know

2981
02:07:03,750 --> 02:07:01,520
what i mean they it just seems it seems

2982
02:07:05,589 --> 02:07:03,760
just so ridiculous that somebody walk

2983
02:07:07,350 --> 02:07:05,599
near death would start telling their

2984
02:07:09,830 --> 02:07:07,360
children these stories

2985
02:07:12,470 --> 02:07:09,840
about alien bodies and things like that

2986
02:07:13,910 --> 02:07:12,480
so i found that a lot of the testimony

2987
02:07:16,229 --> 02:07:13,920
in that book to be

2988
02:07:18,149 --> 02:07:16,239
very compelling because whose parents

2989
02:07:19,189 --> 02:07:18,159
would just start talking about alien

2990
02:07:21,430 --> 02:07:19,199
bodies

2991
02:07:22,709 --> 02:07:21,440
right before they died or or even the

2992
02:07:25,830 --> 02:07:22,719
ones that weren't that told their

2993
02:07:27,669 --> 02:07:25,840
children earlier in life you know like

2994
02:07:30,069 --> 02:07:27,679
you don't tell your children these fake

2995
02:07:32,310 --> 02:07:30,079
stories it just doesn't make sense to me

2996
02:07:35,910 --> 02:07:32,320
i'll i'll tell you something stephen

2997
02:07:38,229 --> 02:07:35,920
this doesn't have to do with ufos but

2998
02:07:40,550 --> 02:07:38,239
when i was a little kid my father told

2999
02:07:42,390 --> 02:07:40,560
me these two stories uh he was from

3000
02:07:45,830 --> 02:07:42,400
boston

3001
02:07:49,030 --> 02:07:45,840
and he was born in 1901

3002
02:07:50,950 --> 02:07:49,040
so uh back in those days not everybody

3003
02:07:53,589 --> 02:07:50,960
had an automobile they

3004
02:07:55,990 --> 02:07:53,599
people were still using a horse-drawn

3005
02:07:57,270 --> 02:07:56,000
cat carts and carriages they were still

3006
02:07:59,589 --> 02:07:57,280
using them

3007
02:08:01,430 --> 02:07:59,599
and he told me a story

3008
02:08:04,629 --> 02:08:01,440
of being out in uh i guess you would

3009
02:08:07,430 --> 02:08:04,639
call it a buck board a horse-drawn

3010
02:08:09,510 --> 02:08:07,440
flatbed you know something like that

3011
02:08:12,550 --> 02:08:09,520
and he said it started it started

3012
02:08:13,990 --> 02:08:12,560
raining frogs little frogs

3013
02:08:14,870 --> 02:08:14,000
and i'm thinking

3014
02:08:17,750 --> 02:08:14,880
what

3015
02:08:19,510 --> 02:08:17,760
it's raining frogs he says yes

3016
02:08:21,669 --> 02:08:19,520
and the thing that i he says the thing

3017
02:08:24,069 --> 02:08:21,679
that i remember about it

3018
02:08:25,990 --> 02:08:24,079
were the wagon wheels

3019
02:08:28,069 --> 02:08:26,000
running over their little crushing their

3020
02:08:31,109 --> 02:08:28,079
little bodies

3021
02:08:33,189 --> 02:08:31,119
in this storm crushing these little

3022
02:08:35,270 --> 02:08:33,199
uh little bagus

3023
02:08:37,750 --> 02:08:35,280
baby frogs or whatever they were the

3024
02:08:39,750 --> 02:08:37,760
wagon wheels running over and crushing

3025
02:08:41,350 --> 02:08:39,760
their little bones he said that's the

3026
02:08:43,030 --> 02:08:41,360
thing he remembered about it and i'm

3027
02:08:44,709 --> 02:08:43,040
thinking wow

3028
02:08:46,229 --> 02:08:44,719
i've never heard of that

3029
02:08:47,669 --> 02:08:46,239
and he said

3030
02:08:50,470 --> 02:08:47,679
there was one he said there was one

3031
02:08:53,350 --> 02:08:50,480
other thing he said

3032
02:08:56,149 --> 02:08:53,360
when he was a teenager

3033
02:08:58,629 --> 02:08:56,159
he was out in a row boat with i guess

3034
02:09:01,189 --> 02:08:58,639
his parents or something out in the

3035
02:09:03,030 --> 02:09:01,199
one of the you know boston is near the

3036
02:09:04,470 --> 02:09:03,040
ocean and then they were out in the bay

3037
02:09:07,510 --> 02:09:04,480
i guess

3038
02:09:09,669 --> 02:09:07,520
and he said this huge

3039
02:09:13,109 --> 02:09:09,679
he called it a sea serpent but he said

3040
02:09:15,910 --> 02:09:13,119
it was like a a large snake

3041
02:09:17,350 --> 02:09:15,920
with a horse with a horse a head that

3042
02:09:19,589 --> 02:09:17,360
looked like a horse

3043
02:09:22,550 --> 02:09:19,599
just slithered by the boats

3044
02:09:25,189 --> 02:09:22,560
i i said i said how big was it was it he

3045
02:09:29,030 --> 02:09:25,199
said oh it was it was huge it was a

3046
02:09:32,149 --> 02:09:29,040
round you know huge body but it just

3047
02:09:34,870 --> 02:09:32,159
it just went like right by the boat

3048
02:09:36,470 --> 02:09:34,880
and it was like a snake

3049
02:09:39,990 --> 02:09:36,480
but it would had a

3050
02:09:41,910 --> 02:09:40,000
horse head type head i'm thinking wow

3051
02:09:44,310 --> 02:09:41,920
i i don't know i don't know what he's

3052
02:09:45,990 --> 02:09:44,320
telling me here but this doesn't

3053
02:09:48,229 --> 02:09:46,000
i ca i can't you know i'm only like

3054
02:09:50,629 --> 02:09:48,239
eight nine years old and hearing this

3055
02:09:51,750 --> 02:09:50,639
and i think i've never heard of this

3056
02:09:53,189 --> 02:09:51,760
well

3057
02:09:55,589 --> 02:09:53,199
guess what

3058
02:09:57,830 --> 02:09:55,599
on uh some of the uh i don't know the

3059
02:10:00,790 --> 02:09:57,840
science channel history channel one of

3060
02:10:03,109 --> 02:10:00,800
you know one of the cable channels it

3061
02:10:04,550 --> 02:10:03,119
they redo report that

3062
02:10:07,430 --> 02:10:04,560
there are

3063
02:10:09,750 --> 02:10:07,440
rainstorms or such squalls where little

3064
02:10:11,669 --> 02:10:09,760
little animals come down and one of the

3065
02:10:14,310 --> 02:10:11,679
one of the types of animals that they

3066
02:10:16,229 --> 02:10:14,320
cited was the little frogs

3067
02:10:18,149 --> 02:10:16,239
and this was on the

3068
02:10:19,830 --> 02:10:18,159
one of the cable channels yeah i know

3069
02:10:21,990 --> 02:10:19,840
that can happen during hurricanes or

3070
02:10:22,870 --> 02:10:22,000
something like that yeah we're like yeah

3071
02:10:26,870 --> 02:10:22,880
it's like

3072
02:10:28,790 --> 02:10:26,880
squall and i don't understand the

3073
02:10:30,870 --> 02:10:28,800
mechanics of under the atmosphere yeah

3074
02:10:33,750 --> 02:10:30,880
that's an odd occurrence for sure but

3075
02:10:35,109 --> 02:10:33,760
it's been reported and also

3076
02:10:37,830 --> 02:10:35,119
they uh

3077
02:10:40,069 --> 02:10:37,840
on one of the shows they talked about a

3078
02:10:42,790 --> 02:10:40,079
sea monster

3079
02:10:44,629 --> 02:10:42,800
in the in i don't know narragansett bay

3080
02:10:47,030 --> 02:10:44,639
or something like that up there in in

3081
02:10:49,109 --> 02:10:47,040
the boston area and they drew a picture

3082
02:10:51,350 --> 02:10:49,119
of it and it was just exactly what my

3083
02:10:53,270 --> 02:10:51,360
father was telling me

3084
02:10:55,589 --> 02:10:53,280
so i'm thinking oh my goodness

3085
02:10:57,589 --> 02:10:55,599
and i said then i thought to myself my

3086
02:11:00,550 --> 02:10:57,599
father wouldn't lie to me

3087
02:11:01,350 --> 02:11:00,560
he would he wouldn't he never lied to me

3088
02:11:05,030 --> 02:11:01,360
so

3089
02:11:06,870 --> 02:11:05,040
i just passed that on as far as parents

3090
02:11:09,350 --> 02:11:06,880
telling their children

3091
02:11:11,430 --> 02:11:09,360
things like that

3092
02:11:13,510 --> 02:11:11,440
especially when they're small they they

3093
02:11:15,270 --> 02:11:13,520
wouldn't lie to them like that

3094
02:11:16,149 --> 02:11:15,280
because when you're older you can tell

3095
02:11:18,390 --> 02:11:16,159
oh

3096
02:11:19,109 --> 02:11:18,400
dad's spinning another one here but you

3097
02:11:21,189 --> 02:11:19,119
know

3098
02:11:21,990 --> 02:11:21,199
yeah yeah when you're a little kid you

3099
02:11:31,109 --> 02:11:22,000
you

3100
02:11:33,350 --> 02:11:31,119
took an awful lot of flak for it is that

3101
02:11:35,430 --> 02:11:33,360
you know you're well aware that so many

3102
02:11:38,149 --> 02:11:35,440
people have tacked on hoaxes onto the

3103
02:11:39,910 --> 02:11:38,159
roswell event we've had alien autopsy

3104
02:11:42,550 --> 02:11:39,920
the roswell rock

3105
02:11:44,470 --> 02:11:42,560
and of course the roswell slides and i

3106
02:11:47,030 --> 02:11:44,480
wouldn't be doing my job if i didn't now

3107
02:11:48,950 --> 02:11:47,040
you're straight you're striking home

3108
02:11:50,629 --> 02:11:48,960
yeah but you know listen i have

3109
02:11:52,629 --> 02:11:50,639
tremendous respect for you and the way

3110
02:11:55,030 --> 02:11:52,639
that both you and mr schmidt handled it

3111
02:11:56,950 --> 02:11:55,040
i talked to him about this previously

3112
02:11:59,430 --> 02:11:56,960
uh but i wouldn't be doing my job if i

3113
02:12:01,350 --> 02:11:59,440
didn't ask you some questions about that

3114
02:12:02,390 --> 02:12:01,360
yeah and one of the things i wanted to

3115
02:12:04,310 --> 02:12:02,400
ask is

3116
02:12:05,910 --> 02:12:04,320
when you when you first heard about

3117
02:12:07,750 --> 02:12:05,920
these roswell slides and for those that

3118
02:12:10,390 --> 02:12:07,760
don't know they reported to be

3119
02:12:11,270 --> 02:12:10,400
slides of an alien from the roswell

3120
02:12:14,069 --> 02:12:11,280
event

3121
02:12:16,069 --> 02:12:14,079
or that's what they were hyped as

3122
02:12:17,510 --> 02:12:16,079
did you think that you had the smoking

3123
02:12:19,910 --> 02:12:17,520
gun that you were finally going to get

3124
02:12:21,910 --> 02:12:19,920
that smoking gun yes right yes so this

3125
02:12:25,270 --> 02:12:21,920
must have been even more disappointing

3126
02:12:27,830 --> 02:12:25,280
than frank kaufman right i was i was

3127
02:12:29,430 --> 02:12:27,840
i was in disbelief uh

3128
02:12:30,149 --> 02:12:29,440
stephen the uh

3129
02:12:34,709 --> 02:12:30,159
we

3130
02:12:37,430 --> 02:12:34,719
years

3131
02:12:40,390 --> 02:12:37,440
and doing due diligence on them

3132
02:12:41,350 --> 02:12:40,400
and uh we went as far as we could with

3133
02:12:43,669 --> 02:12:41,360
them

3134
02:12:45,589 --> 02:12:43,679
and everything pointed

3135
02:12:46,830 --> 02:12:45,599
to that they were the

3136
02:12:51,270 --> 02:12:46,840
it was a

3137
02:12:53,189 --> 02:12:51,280
slide of one of the ross roswell bodies

3138
02:12:55,990 --> 02:12:53,199
because the

3139
02:12:59,270 --> 02:12:56,000
the uh

3140
02:13:04,229 --> 02:12:59,280
slide stock the the film itself

3141
02:13:06,069 --> 02:13:04,239
was from 1947 according to the coding

3142
02:13:07,589 --> 02:13:06,079
and all of the other pictures in this

3143
02:13:09,589 --> 02:13:07,599
collection

3144
02:13:12,229 --> 02:13:09,599
that were shown to us

3145
02:13:14,229 --> 02:13:12,239
were from the 1940s

3146
02:13:18,390 --> 02:13:14,239
yes it had to be tantalizing right you

3147
02:13:23,750 --> 02:13:21,109
everything else was from the 1940s the

3148
02:13:24,709 --> 02:13:23,760
little code on the slide the side of the

3149
02:13:27,350 --> 02:13:24,719
slide

3150
02:13:28,830 --> 02:13:27,360
uh without going all into it we

3151
02:13:33,830 --> 02:13:28,840
it was from

3152
02:13:37,030 --> 02:13:33,840
1947. and this body on the slide

3153
02:13:39,990 --> 02:13:37,040
looked exactly like i envisioned the

3154
02:13:43,189 --> 02:13:40,000
roswell bodies looked

3155
02:13:46,310 --> 02:13:43,199
it looked exactly like that

3156
02:13:48,229 --> 02:13:46,320
and uh everything pointed to this is one

3157
02:13:52,709 --> 02:13:48,239
of the roswell

3158
02:13:55,669 --> 02:13:52,719
bodies now the the kicker here was

3159
02:13:59,109 --> 02:13:55,679
at the foot of this body in the slide

3160
02:14:01,510 --> 02:13:59,119
was a flat was a placard

3161
02:14:05,350 --> 02:14:01,520
it was a

3162
02:14:08,390 --> 02:14:05,360
oblong placard with writing on it

3163
02:14:11,109 --> 02:14:08,400
we for three years we sent it out we

3164
02:14:14,790 --> 02:14:11,119
tried us nobody could read that writing

3165
02:14:17,189 --> 02:14:14,800
which would obviously have told us

3166
02:14:19,270 --> 02:14:17,199
what was what what was lying there on

3167
02:14:21,270 --> 02:14:19,280
the slab

3168
02:14:22,709 --> 02:14:21,280
it could it would have said okay this is

3169
02:14:24,790 --> 02:14:22,719
so-and-so and so

3170
02:14:27,030 --> 02:14:24,800
we tried for three years we sent it out

3171
02:14:30,550 --> 02:14:27,040
to uh

3172
02:14:32,870 --> 02:14:30,560
various places even the army uh

3173
02:14:34,229 --> 02:14:32,880
photo interpretation unit they couldn't

3174
02:14:36,950 --> 02:14:34,239
break this

3175
02:14:38,390 --> 02:14:36,960
cursive writing so i figured well that's

3176
02:14:43,430 --> 02:14:38,400
it

3177
02:14:45,510 --> 02:14:43,440
everything was everything pointed to

3178
02:14:47,189 --> 02:14:45,520
uh this is a roswell

3179
02:14:49,510 --> 02:14:47,199
cadaver well

3180
02:14:52,629 --> 02:14:49,520
no sooner did we have this big affair in

3181
02:14:57,589 --> 02:14:55,030
when a day or two later

3182
02:15:00,229 --> 02:14:57,599
here comes the slide somebody somebody

3183
02:15:01,109 --> 02:15:00,239
has cracked the uh the writing i'm

3184
02:15:03,990 --> 02:15:01,119
thinking

3185
02:15:05,669 --> 02:15:04,000
oh my god how can that be we tried for

3186
02:15:08,149 --> 02:15:05,679
three years and couldn't do it here

3187
02:15:10,790 --> 02:15:08,159
comes somebody

3188
02:15:13,109 --> 02:15:10,800
that that where it says it's the uh it's

3189
02:15:14,390 --> 02:15:13,119
the mummified body of a

3190
02:15:17,030 --> 02:15:14,400
i don't know six-year-old or

3191
02:15:17,830 --> 02:15:17,040
nine-year-old boy

3192
02:15:19,990 --> 02:15:17,840
yeah

3193
02:15:22,390 --> 02:15:20,000
i said this i remember this and i was so

3194
02:15:24,470 --> 02:15:22,400
disappointed but then i had my own

3195
02:15:26,149 --> 02:15:24,480
suspicions because jaime moussan was

3196
02:15:28,870 --> 02:15:26,159
involved and jaime musan for those that

3197
02:15:31,109 --> 02:15:28,880
don't know was sort of like

3198
02:15:34,950 --> 02:15:31,119
he had this marmoset monkey for a while

3199
02:15:39,830 --> 02:15:36,629
jaime had nothing to do with the

3200
02:15:42,229 --> 02:15:39,840
analysis he just provided the venue

3201
02:15:44,229 --> 02:15:42,239
sure but just because but just because

3202
02:15:45,910 --> 02:15:44,239
he was involved and he was hyping it i

3203
02:15:48,390 --> 02:15:45,920
thought this may be a hoax because of

3204
02:15:51,109 --> 02:15:48,400
his involvement so i was cautiously

3205
02:15:52,709 --> 02:15:51,119
hopeful that this was real but i

3206
02:15:54,149 --> 02:15:52,719
remember uh

3207
02:15:55,030 --> 02:15:54,159
i remember

3208
02:15:57,189 --> 02:15:55,040
you know

3209
02:15:58,950 --> 02:15:57,199
how fast that this thing fell apart they

3210
02:16:00,550 --> 02:15:58,960
did so they did this big pay-per-view

3211
02:16:02,870 --> 02:16:00,560
with me

3212
02:16:06,790 --> 02:16:02,880
i thought i was dreaming

3213
02:16:09,669 --> 02:16:06,800
can't be true because we we did

3214
02:16:12,550 --> 02:16:09,679
everything we could for three years

3215
02:16:14,790 --> 02:16:12,560
to break this and we couldn't

3216
02:16:16,550 --> 02:16:14,800
and here especially when somebody and

3217
02:16:19,109 --> 02:16:16,560
they're right there on the

3218
02:16:20,950 --> 02:16:19,119
foot of the uh at the foot of the the

3219
02:16:23,510 --> 02:16:20,960
body is this

3220
02:16:25,510 --> 02:16:23,520
mummified body of a six-year-old or

3221
02:16:27,830 --> 02:16:25,520
nine-year-old boy i don't forget how old

3222
02:16:29,910 --> 02:16:27,840
it was and i'm thinking that's got to be

3223
02:16:32,230 --> 02:16:29,920
a hoax because we tried for three years

3224
02:16:33,509 --> 02:16:32,240
how can somebody in two days come up

3225
02:16:35,589 --> 02:16:33,519
with

3226
02:16:38,070 --> 02:16:35,599
break it maybe yeah but apparently they

3227
02:16:40,870 --> 02:16:38,080
had much cleaner scans or higher they

3228
02:16:44,230 --> 02:16:40,880
had it they had a different slide

3229
02:16:46,469 --> 02:16:44,240
because i i only saw one slide

3230
02:16:47,910 --> 02:16:46,479
apparently there were

3231
02:16:51,270 --> 02:16:47,920
more

3232
02:16:53,750 --> 02:16:51,280
and somehow this i don't know who it was

3233
02:16:54,790 --> 02:16:53,760
got a hold of one of the other slides

3234
02:16:59,750 --> 02:16:54,800
where

3235
02:17:02,150 --> 02:16:59,760
someone and i i i suspect who it was now

3236
02:17:05,429 --> 02:17:02,160
uh scrambled the letters to where they

3237
02:17:08,469 --> 02:17:05,439
couldn't be that you couldn't break them

3238
02:17:11,110 --> 02:17:08,479
and so we didn't i didn't know that that

3239
02:17:13,509 --> 02:17:11,120
there was another slide that that you

3240
02:17:15,429 --> 02:17:13,519
could unscramble the letters

3241
02:17:17,190 --> 02:17:15,439
because the only slide we had was this

3242
02:17:18,549 --> 02:17:17,200
one

3243
02:17:20,309 --> 02:17:18,559
and uh

3244
02:17:22,870 --> 02:17:20,319
i would i was in

3245
02:17:24,629 --> 02:17:22,880
i was in disbelief but uh that

3246
02:17:28,150 --> 02:17:24,639
that's what happened that's what

3247
02:17:30,230 --> 02:17:28,160
happened my own my own uh looking back

3248
02:17:31,270 --> 02:17:30,240
on it now

3249
02:17:33,349 --> 02:17:31,280
i was

3250
02:17:35,509 --> 02:17:33,359
captivated by

3251
02:17:39,030 --> 02:17:35,519
what i was seeing

3252
02:17:43,270 --> 02:17:39,040
plus the fact that it was a 1947

3253
02:17:44,870 --> 02:17:43,280
photos from 1947 kodak photo stock yeah

3254
02:17:45,990 --> 02:17:44,880
so in other words

3255
02:17:49,270 --> 02:17:46,000
the film

3256
02:17:51,750 --> 02:17:49,280
dated correctly to to what was purported

3257
02:17:53,669 --> 02:17:51,760
to be on the slide and it made sense

3258
02:17:56,790 --> 02:17:53,679
like okay so this

3259
02:17:59,349 --> 02:17:56,800
film stock that this slide was from is

3260
02:18:01,190 --> 02:17:59,359
from 1947 so that's pretty tantalizing

3261
02:18:04,629 --> 02:18:01,200
and convincing evidence that it just may

3262
02:18:07,270 --> 02:18:04,639
be from the roswell plus the body

3263
02:18:09,270 --> 02:18:07,280
the body looked exactly like i expected

3264
02:18:12,389 --> 02:18:09,280
it to look

3265
02:18:13,349 --> 02:18:12,399
yeah and uh that just uh that overtook

3266
02:18:15,230 --> 02:18:13,359
me

3267
02:18:19,030 --> 02:18:15,240
because i could uh you know looking at

3268
02:18:21,509 --> 02:18:19,040
1947 stock and we went to kodak

3269
02:18:22,870 --> 02:18:21,519
the the uh the fella at kodak who was

3270
02:18:27,910 --> 02:18:22,880
the expert

3271
02:18:30,950 --> 02:18:27,920
on uh slide stock back in the 40s

3272
02:18:34,469 --> 02:18:30,960
uh he said no there's this this is okay

3273
02:18:36,790 --> 02:18:34,479
there's this i don't see any uh

3274
02:18:38,389 --> 02:18:36,800
any shenanigans going on here so that

3275
02:18:40,629 --> 02:18:38,399
was it

3276
02:18:42,870 --> 02:18:40,639
and so we went public with that

3277
02:18:46,070 --> 02:18:42,880
within two days somebody says this is a

3278
02:18:48,389 --> 02:18:46,080
six year this is a mummified body

3279
02:18:51,349 --> 02:18:48,399
of a boy

3280
02:18:52,870 --> 02:18:51,359
let's say uh two years old yeah two

3281
02:18:55,990 --> 02:18:52,880
years old

3282
02:18:58,629 --> 02:18:56,000
and uh i did not believe that until i

3283
02:19:01,509 --> 02:18:58,639
actually saw we had another fella

3284
02:19:04,790 --> 02:19:01,519
who we've been working with and uh

3285
02:19:06,629 --> 02:19:04,800
he looked he went online and he found

3286
02:19:09,030 --> 02:19:06,639
he found that body

3287
02:19:10,950 --> 02:19:09,040
when it was still what as they say in

3288
02:19:13,509 --> 02:19:10,960
situ it was still

3289
02:19:16,230 --> 02:19:13,519
in in at the site when they discovered

3290
02:19:18,629 --> 02:19:16,240
it and and it was the same body same

3291
02:19:20,389 --> 02:19:18,639
body so at that point

3292
02:19:22,709 --> 02:19:20,399
when i saw the real

3293
02:19:25,190 --> 02:19:22,719
when the body was when it was still

3294
02:19:27,110 --> 02:19:25,200
being excavated it had the same little

3295
02:19:29,669 --> 02:19:27,120
thing around its neck it had the same

3296
02:19:32,389 --> 02:19:29,679
look on its face but the thing that was

3297
02:19:34,150 --> 02:19:32,399
different about it stephen was that you

3298
02:19:37,509 --> 02:19:34,160
know when you're at the site it looks

3299
02:19:41,110 --> 02:19:37,519
all dried out the mummified body

3300
02:19:42,870 --> 02:19:41,120
looks all dried out yes

3301
02:19:43,910 --> 02:19:42,880
and uh

3302
02:19:46,389 --> 02:19:43,920
but

3303
02:19:49,349 --> 02:19:46,399
you could see you can see in the picture

3304
02:19:51,830 --> 02:19:49,359
they they cleaned it up somehow

3305
02:19:55,429 --> 02:19:51,840
and uh made it look like it wasn't a

3306
02:19:57,190 --> 02:19:55,439
mummy because i've seen mummies before

3307
02:19:58,870 --> 02:19:57,200
i'm sorry friends i'm having some

3308
02:20:00,870 --> 02:19:58,880
technical issues i was trying to share

3309
02:20:02,710 --> 02:20:00,880
the pictures of the slides anybody can

3310
02:20:04,630 --> 02:20:02,720
google the roswell slides and you'll see

3311
02:20:06,870 --> 02:20:04,640
pictures of this body and you have to

3312
02:20:09,190 --> 02:20:06,880
admit if you look at the pictures this

3313
02:20:11,429 --> 02:20:09,200
looks like a typical what you would

3314
02:20:13,670 --> 02:20:11,439
think of roswell alien look like after

3315
02:20:15,590 --> 02:20:13,680
seeing all these drawings and witness

3316
02:20:17,590 --> 02:20:15,600
descriptions over the years and things

3317
02:20:19,910 --> 02:20:17,600
like that i've seen i've seen the

3318
02:20:22,469 --> 02:20:19,920
mummified bodies and they they all look

3319
02:20:23,750 --> 02:20:22,479
shriveled up and desiccated that dried

3320
02:20:25,670 --> 02:20:23,760
out you know

3321
02:20:28,710 --> 02:20:25,680
this thing didn't look dried out it

3322
02:20:30,550 --> 02:20:28,720
looked like it had been alive not too

3323
02:20:31,429 --> 02:20:30,560
long before that's what it looked like

3324
02:20:33,990 --> 02:20:31,439
to me

3325
02:20:35,190 --> 02:20:34,000
so everything fell in line

3326
02:20:35,910 --> 02:20:35,200
that it was

3327
02:21:10,830 --> 02:20:35,920
a

3328
02:21:14,230 --> 02:21:10,840
speech

3329
02:21:16,630 --> 02:21:14,240
of whatever he wanted

3330
02:21:18,230 --> 02:21:16,640
to you know to add credence to our to

3331
02:21:20,230 --> 02:21:18,240
our show

3332
02:21:23,110 --> 02:21:20,240
and jaime

3333
02:21:24,630 --> 02:21:23,120
provided the venue which was magnificent

3334
02:21:26,790 --> 02:21:24,640
it was the

3335
02:21:30,550 --> 02:21:26,800
national auditorium and yeah it was like

3336
02:21:31,830 --> 02:21:30,560
a big stadium right because yes uh 8 000

3337
02:21:33,990 --> 02:21:31,840
people

3338
02:21:36,070 --> 02:21:34,000
uh it was the national auditorium in the

3339
02:21:38,309 --> 02:21:36,080
biggest auditorium in mexico you can't

3340
02:21:40,070 --> 02:21:38,319
beat that well between that and the

3341
02:21:42,469 --> 02:21:40,080
pay-per-views somebody made an awful lot

3342
02:21:45,190 --> 02:21:42,479
of money yes and it wasn't it wasn't it

3343
02:21:46,790 --> 02:21:45,200
wasn't don schmidt and myself no i

3344
02:21:48,389 --> 02:21:46,800
that's why i wanted to make clear like

3345
02:21:50,469 --> 02:21:48,399
somebody made an awful lot of money out

3346
02:21:52,870 --> 02:21:50,479
of that event between the pay-per-view

3347
02:21:55,349 --> 02:21:52,880
and the tickets to see the live event 8

3348
02:21:57,110 --> 02:21:55,359
000 people and nobody's ever given any

3349
02:21:58,790 --> 02:21:57,120
of that money back after it was proven

3350
02:22:01,510 --> 02:21:58,800
it was a hoax so to me that's just

3351
02:22:04,550 --> 02:22:01,520
consumer fraud they uh you know those

3352
02:22:06,710 --> 02:22:04,560
those two fellas disappeared on us

3353
02:22:08,710 --> 02:22:06,720
lickety-split

3354
02:22:10,389 --> 02:22:08,720
yeah i could imagine you know and

3355
02:22:13,030 --> 02:22:10,399
there's been some talk somebody

3356
02:22:16,070 --> 02:22:13,040
mentioned to me or claimed to me that

3357
02:22:18,309 --> 02:22:16,080
you still even after the revelation that

3358
02:22:21,030 --> 02:22:18,319
it was that it was uh mommy and it was

3359
02:22:24,070 --> 02:22:21,040
fake refused to let it go for a while is

3360
02:22:27,030 --> 02:22:24,080
that accurate or did you i let i refused

3361
02:22:29,349 --> 02:22:27,040
to let go until i saw the the body that

3362
02:22:32,790 --> 02:22:29,359
i was just telling you about sure that

3363
02:22:35,030 --> 02:22:32,800
was when it was uh when i saw the body

3364
02:22:37,830 --> 02:22:35,040
at the time it was discovered i i said

3365
02:22:40,230 --> 02:22:37,840
okay that's that's it so i let it go at

3366
02:22:42,469 --> 02:22:40,240
that point but up until that uh stephen

3367
02:22:44,870 --> 02:22:42,479
i thought that the

3368
02:22:47,429 --> 02:22:44,880
the the translation

3369
02:22:50,870 --> 02:22:47,439
of the placard itself was a hoax because

3370
02:22:53,670 --> 02:22:50,880
we tried for three years to to uh

3371
02:22:55,030 --> 02:22:53,680
translate it to to learn what it said we

3372
02:22:57,110 --> 02:22:55,040
couldn't do it

3373
02:22:58,870 --> 02:22:57,120
and uh it wasn't just don schmidt and

3374
02:23:00,630 --> 02:22:58,880
myself we sent out at the different

3375
02:23:04,950 --> 02:23:00,640
parties uh

3376
02:23:08,630 --> 02:23:04,960
uh even david rudiak who was the chief

3377
02:23:10,790 --> 02:23:08,640
investigator on the so-called raimi memo

3378
02:23:13,030 --> 02:23:10,800
uh we sent it to him and he couldn't he

3379
02:23:14,469 --> 02:23:13,040
couldn't read it so that was a big thing

3380
02:23:16,389 --> 02:23:14,479
to us while we

3381
02:23:18,230 --> 02:23:16,399
it's beyond being read and then here

3382
02:23:20,550 --> 02:23:18,240
comes somebody and you could actually

3383
02:23:22,870 --> 02:23:20,560
read the words and i said this this

3384
02:23:24,230 --> 02:23:22,880
can't be true because we tried so hard

3385
02:23:27,670 --> 02:23:24,240
for three years

3386
02:23:29,190 --> 02:23:27,680
so i held on to it until i actually saw

3387
02:23:31,349 --> 02:23:29,200
the body

3388
02:23:33,910 --> 02:23:31,359
when it was still an archaeological

3389
02:23:36,469 --> 02:23:33,920
still at the archaeology site it was

3390
02:23:37,910 --> 02:23:36,479
obviously the same body and at that

3391
02:23:40,710 --> 02:23:37,920
point i said okay

3392
02:23:42,230 --> 02:23:40,720
this is this is in fact a mummy

3393
02:23:44,790 --> 02:23:42,240
i don't know what they did to it to

3394
02:23:47,670 --> 02:23:44,800
clean it up i really don't but

3395
02:23:49,510 --> 02:23:47,680
uh yeah well i i think i did some work

3396
02:23:50,710 --> 02:23:49,520
on that back when that happened believe

3397
02:23:53,110 --> 02:23:50,720
it or not i have a background in

3398
02:23:55,830 --> 02:23:53,120
computer science and i was trying to

3399
02:23:57,750 --> 02:23:55,840
decipher what the placard said from the

3400
02:23:59,750 --> 02:23:57,760
from the screenshot that somebody put on

3401
02:24:00,710 --> 02:23:59,760
a website which was extremely low low

3402
02:24:03,110 --> 02:24:00,720
res

3403
02:24:05,110 --> 02:24:03,120
but after the event somebody posted a

3404
02:24:08,950 --> 02:24:05,120
much higher resolution

3405
02:24:11,750 --> 02:24:08,960
uh scan or photo or whatever of of the

3406
02:24:13,429 --> 02:24:11,760
mummy and the placard and i was almost

3407
02:24:15,830 --> 02:24:13,439
able to do it somebody beat me to it

3408
02:24:17,429 --> 02:24:15,840
though they were so fast it was because

3409
02:24:19,990 --> 02:24:17,439
there's only so many pixels and if you

3410
02:24:21,190 --> 02:24:20,000
get extremely low res it's going to be

3411
02:24:22,870 --> 02:24:21,200
too garbled you're not going to be able

3412
02:24:24,710 --> 02:24:22,880
to read it but once you get that higher

3413
02:24:26,630 --> 02:24:24,720
res image

3414
02:24:28,469 --> 02:24:26,640
yeah it's going to be quick and easy but

3415
02:24:31,270 --> 02:24:28,479
you didn't have the higher res you had

3416
02:24:32,230 --> 02:24:31,280
the low res like preview

3417
02:24:33,910 --> 02:24:32,240
image

3418
02:24:35,510 --> 02:24:33,920
instead of the higher order there was

3419
02:24:37,270 --> 02:24:35,520
another higher resolution after the

3420
02:24:39,510 --> 02:24:37,280
event you know and there's probably a

3421
02:24:42,469 --> 02:24:39,520
reason for that they knew they knew i

3422
02:24:44,790 --> 02:24:42,479
think they knew what that placard said

3423
02:24:47,750 --> 02:24:44,800
yes uh we didn't know but the the

3424
02:24:50,230 --> 02:24:47,760
possessors in retrospect now

3425
02:24:52,790 --> 02:24:50,240
i believe the possessors uh scrambled

3426
02:24:54,070 --> 02:24:52,800
the words or they did something to the

3427
02:24:57,190 --> 02:24:54,080
placard

3428
02:24:58,870 --> 02:24:57,200
that uh on the one slide on the one

3429
02:25:02,309 --> 02:24:58,880
slide that we had

3430
02:25:04,469 --> 02:25:02,319
that uh made it impossible to read

3431
02:25:06,309 --> 02:25:04,479
because somebody got a hold and i don't

3432
02:25:08,469 --> 02:25:06,319
know how that happened so i finally got

3433
02:25:10,870 --> 02:25:08,479
it up here so because i'm sorry

3434
02:25:12,469 --> 02:25:10,880
i'm never in firefox but there's some

3435
02:25:14,230 --> 02:25:12,479
weirdness going on with the software to

3436
02:25:16,309 --> 02:25:14,240
run the show and i had to use firefox

3437
02:25:18,870 --> 02:25:16,319
tonight so to share the screen is was

3438
02:25:21,910 --> 02:25:18,880
was difficult so here's the picture

3439
02:25:24,630 --> 02:25:21,920
and yeah the placard once clearly

3440
02:25:27,349 --> 02:25:24,640
visible you know it says this mummy of a

3441
02:25:29,670 --> 02:25:27,359
two-year-old uh

3442
02:25:32,710 --> 02:25:29,680
found uh

3443
02:25:34,630 --> 02:25:32,720
on the front of the second store of

3444
02:25:36,550 --> 02:25:34,640
montezuma castle or something like that

3445
02:25:38,710 --> 02:25:36,560
yeah so the placard is pretty clear once

3446
02:25:40,790 --> 02:25:38,720
you have the good the good image you

3447
02:25:43,110 --> 02:25:40,800
know but the original image

3448
02:25:46,150 --> 02:25:43,120
not so much and there was so much you

3449
02:25:48,070 --> 02:25:46,160
know people people even like biologists

3450
02:25:51,030 --> 02:25:48,080
looked at this thing and said there's

3451
02:25:53,830 --> 02:25:51,040
not enough ribs or you know

3452
02:25:56,870 --> 02:25:53,840
there's the head and the eyes this can't

3453
02:25:57,910 --> 02:25:56,880
be a human you know

3454
02:26:00,230 --> 02:25:57,920
and here's a more accurate

3455
02:26:02,389 --> 02:26:00,240
representation of what the original you

3456
02:26:03,349 --> 02:26:02,399
couldn't see anything on the placard at

3457
02:26:05,510 --> 02:26:03,359
first

3458
02:26:08,070 --> 02:26:05,520
in the upper right hand look the upper

3459
02:26:10,389 --> 02:26:08,080
right hand corner that's the

3460
02:26:12,710 --> 02:26:10,399
that's what i was looking at

3461
02:26:14,070 --> 02:26:12,720
and uh if you notice

3462
02:26:15,910 --> 02:26:14,080
on the

3463
02:26:17,510 --> 02:26:15,920
put up the right that one yeah in the

3464
02:26:20,550 --> 02:26:17,520
upper right hand corner see if i could

3465
02:26:22,710 --> 02:26:20,560
get a better image of it yeah maybe not

3466
02:26:24,550 --> 02:26:22,720
oh and

3467
02:26:25,670 --> 02:26:24,560
and this was the

3468
02:26:27,670 --> 02:26:25,680
there you go

3469
02:26:29,830 --> 02:26:27,680
this was the clincher for me here's what

3470
02:26:32,870 --> 02:26:29,840
the clincher was

3471
02:26:35,990 --> 02:26:32,880
we had a first-hand witness

3472
02:26:38,230 --> 02:26:36,000
uh his name was dan dwyer

3473
02:26:40,550 --> 02:26:38,240
he was a fireman

3474
02:26:42,790 --> 02:26:40,560
for the roswell fire department he got

3475
02:26:44,790 --> 02:26:42,800
out to the site before the military got

3476
02:26:47,510 --> 02:26:44,800
there

3477
02:26:49,349 --> 02:26:47,520
and he saw the the the bodies on the

3478
02:26:50,630 --> 02:26:49,359
ground and there was one that was still

3479
02:26:52,950 --> 02:26:50,640
alive

3480
02:26:55,670 --> 02:26:52,960
okay so there were two dead and one

3481
02:26:57,830 --> 02:26:55,680
still alive at this uh

3482
02:26:59,110 --> 02:26:57,840
crash site

3483
02:27:01,750 --> 02:26:59,120
and uh

3484
02:27:03,830 --> 02:27:01,760
we got the story from his daughter

3485
02:27:06,550 --> 02:27:03,840
frankie rowe

3486
02:27:08,710 --> 02:27:06,560
because dan dwyer was already dead by

3487
02:27:11,030 --> 02:27:08,720
the time we got on the case

3488
02:27:13,429 --> 02:27:11,040
but when he got home that night he told

3489
02:27:16,230 --> 02:27:13,439
his family about being out at this crash

3490
02:27:18,309 --> 02:27:16,240
site where a flying saucer had crashed

3491
02:27:20,070 --> 02:27:18,319
and there were bodies and one was still

3492
02:27:21,830 --> 02:27:20,080
alive

3493
02:27:23,830 --> 02:27:21,840
and they the first thing we wanted they

3494
02:27:25,750 --> 02:27:23,840
wanted to know was well dad what did it

3495
02:27:27,590 --> 02:27:25,760
look like

3496
02:27:29,750 --> 02:27:27,600
and all he said was

3497
02:27:35,110 --> 02:27:29,760
child of the earth

3498
02:27:36,710 --> 02:27:35,120
that doesn't mean i don't know you know

3499
02:27:38,870 --> 02:27:36,720
i'm from philadelphia i don't know what

3500
02:27:44,710 --> 02:27:38,880
that means

3501
02:27:50,070 --> 02:27:47,590
put the picture back up

3502
02:27:55,750 --> 02:27:50,080
oh i'm sorry uh

3503
02:27:59,190 --> 02:27:56,830
with me

3504
02:28:01,270 --> 02:27:59,200
here i'm going to tell you what the

3505
02:28:03,429 --> 02:28:01,280
clincher was

3506
02:28:07,349 --> 02:28:03,439
yeah

3507
02:28:11,510 --> 02:28:10,309
waiting for the picture

3508
02:28:12,550 --> 02:28:11,520
there you go

3509
02:28:14,870 --> 02:28:12,560
okay

3510
02:28:16,630 --> 02:28:14,880
so uh dan dwyer

3511
02:28:18,469 --> 02:28:16,640
they wanted to know what it looked like

3512
02:28:20,550 --> 02:28:18,479
and he didn't say well allah had a big

3513
02:28:23,349 --> 02:28:20,560
head blah blah blah blah

3514
02:28:24,790 --> 02:28:23,359
he just said child of the earth

3515
02:28:27,830 --> 02:28:24,800
and they said oh

3516
02:28:30,230 --> 02:28:27,840
well child of the earth to people living

3517
02:28:32,710 --> 02:28:30,240
in new mexico means

3518
02:28:35,190 --> 02:28:32,720
a little it's a little another name for

3519
02:28:37,910 --> 02:28:35,200
it it's a potato bug or the jerusalem

3520
02:28:40,950 --> 02:28:37,920
cricket it's a little insect

3521
02:28:43,270 --> 02:28:40,960
that has a head on it that reminds them

3522
02:28:44,550 --> 02:28:43,280
of a newborn child

3523
02:28:45,910 --> 02:28:44,560
okay

3524
02:28:50,389 --> 02:28:45,920
the head

3525
02:28:52,630 --> 02:28:50,399
earth

3526
02:28:55,110 --> 02:28:52,640
has a head on it that reminds them of a

3527
02:28:56,150 --> 02:28:55,120
newborn child okay so what am i talking

3528
02:28:59,110 --> 02:28:56,160
about

3529
02:29:02,070 --> 02:28:59,120
well a newborn child

3530
02:29:04,309 --> 02:29:02,080
has markings on its head

3531
02:29:06,870 --> 02:29:04,319
because the bones of the skull the

3532
02:29:09,590 --> 02:29:06,880
parietals and the frontal bones they

3533
02:29:12,070 --> 02:29:09,600
have it they haven't come together yet

3534
02:29:14,550 --> 02:29:12,080
so you have dark markings on the head of

3535
02:29:16,469 --> 02:29:14,560
this newborn infant so that's why they

3536
02:29:18,550 --> 02:29:16,479
call this potato bug

3537
02:29:20,230 --> 02:29:18,560
that you're the child of the earth now

3538
02:29:22,469 --> 02:29:20,240
if you look at that picture what do you

3539
02:29:23,510 --> 02:29:22,479
see on the top of the head of that that

3540
02:29:25,830 --> 02:29:23,520
picture

3541
02:29:32,070 --> 02:29:25,840
there's dark markings

3542
02:29:33,750 --> 02:29:32,080
of that cadaver and to me i'm saying

3543
02:29:35,590 --> 02:29:33,760
there's nobody that could have hoped

3544
02:29:36,630 --> 02:29:35,600
that they wouldn't have known about it

3545
02:29:38,710 --> 02:29:36,640
because

3546
02:29:41,510 --> 02:29:38,720
nobody that i've ever talked to knows

3547
02:29:43,750 --> 02:29:41,520
about that what the markings on the head

3548
02:29:45,750 --> 02:29:43,760
and that cadaver has markings on the

3549
02:29:48,550 --> 02:29:45,760
head and i said oh my goodness

3550
02:29:50,469 --> 02:29:48,560
that's what dan dwyer was talking about

3551
02:29:52,389 --> 02:29:50,479
the markings on the head why they call

3552
02:29:55,990 --> 02:29:52,399
it the child of the earth and for me

3553
02:30:01,429 --> 02:29:56,870
yeah

3554
02:30:03,750 --> 02:30:01,439
happened i didn't blame you or anybody

3555
02:30:04,870 --> 02:30:03,760
else involved one bit and it's a shame

3556
02:30:07,270 --> 02:30:04,880
that people

3557
02:30:09,030 --> 02:30:07,280
you know were nasty about it after the

3558
02:30:10,710 --> 02:30:09,040
event but i think there was a lot of

3559
02:30:12,550 --> 02:30:10,720
people that were hopeful and then

3560
02:30:14,389 --> 02:30:12,560
disappointed i mean it's a nature of a

3561
02:30:17,030 --> 02:30:14,399
good hoax that people

3562
02:30:19,190 --> 02:30:17,040
you know want to believe they think this

3563
02:30:20,389 --> 02:30:19,200
might be the smoking gun proof and and

3564
02:30:22,790 --> 02:30:20,399
the evidence

3565
02:30:24,630 --> 02:30:22,800
and then you get your bubble burst like

3566
02:30:26,550 --> 02:30:24,640
my bubble got burst it was a big

3567
02:30:28,550 --> 02:30:26,560
disappointment to me it was i thought

3568
02:30:30,469 --> 02:30:28,560
this might be the smoking gun we might

3569
02:30:33,750 --> 02:30:30,479
actually have the proof now it was

3570
02:30:36,790 --> 02:30:33,760
unbelievable it was uh steven based on

3571
02:30:39,510 --> 02:30:36,800
the information we had

3572
02:30:42,150 --> 02:30:39,520
when we went public with it i would have

3573
02:30:44,550 --> 02:30:42,160
had to come to the same conclusion

3574
02:30:46,710 --> 02:30:44,560
because we could not read that placard

3575
02:30:50,469 --> 02:30:46,720
we tried for three years

3576
02:30:53,590 --> 02:30:50,479
we sent it to adobe we sent it to the us

3577
02:30:55,110 --> 02:30:53,600
army photo interpretation unit

3578
02:30:58,230 --> 02:30:55,120
uh

3579
02:31:00,550 --> 02:30:58,240
david rudiak who's an expert in that

3580
02:31:02,150 --> 02:31:00,560
a couple other places and i tried myself

3581
02:31:04,550 --> 02:31:02,160
with my own

3582
02:31:06,230 --> 02:31:04,560
uh photographic software over three

3583
02:31:10,550 --> 02:31:06,240
years i would try it a couple times a

3584
02:31:12,309 --> 02:31:10,560
week well maybe i could break it today

3585
02:31:14,950 --> 02:31:12,319
i did the same thing i was doing the

3586
02:31:16,790 --> 02:31:14,960
same thing and i even went to a friend i

3587
02:31:18,870 --> 02:31:16,800
even went to a friend of mine who's an

3588
02:31:20,710 --> 02:31:18,880
image analyst like

3589
02:31:23,270 --> 02:31:20,720
you know like a serious image analyst

3590
02:31:24,309 --> 02:31:23,280
he's testified in court and things and

3591
02:31:27,270 --> 02:31:24,319
done

3592
02:31:30,309 --> 02:31:27,280
photo analysis and image enhancement for

3593
02:31:31,830 --> 02:31:30,319
police and things like that and he just

3594
02:31:33,349 --> 02:31:31,840
sent me back a message that said there's

3595
02:31:34,950 --> 02:31:33,359
just not enough pixels there you're

3596
02:31:37,429 --> 02:31:34,960
never going to read this

3597
02:31:40,550 --> 02:31:37,439
but that of course was the original

3598
02:31:42,710 --> 02:31:40,560
release which was just a low res grainy

3599
02:31:45,590 --> 02:31:42,720
ass you know terrible

3600
02:31:48,150 --> 02:31:45,600
terrible quality picture yeah so once

3601
02:31:50,070 --> 02:31:48,160
once the event happened then the hoaxers

3602
02:31:52,710 --> 02:31:50,080
got their money i guess you know then

3603
02:31:53,990 --> 02:31:52,720
somebody uploaded that day the day of

3604
02:31:55,510 --> 02:31:54,000
the event i think it happened or the

3605
02:31:57,990 --> 02:31:55,520
night of the event

3606
02:32:00,630 --> 02:31:58,000
somebody posted a really high quality

3607
02:32:02,230 --> 02:32:00,640
picture on a blog and then within hours

3608
02:32:05,270 --> 02:32:02,240
people people were able to crack the

3609
02:32:06,710 --> 02:32:05,280
code of that placard

3610
02:32:09,590 --> 02:32:06,720
we uh

3611
02:32:11,670 --> 02:32:09,600
we were now we were never able to we

3612
02:32:12,630 --> 02:32:11,680
were never able to and when that was

3613
02:32:14,950 --> 02:32:12,640
cracked

3614
02:32:17,750 --> 02:32:14,960
i thought that itself

3615
02:32:18,790 --> 02:32:17,760
was a hoax until i actually saw

3616
02:32:19,910 --> 02:32:18,800
uh

3617
02:32:22,230 --> 02:32:19,920
the body

3618
02:32:25,030 --> 02:32:22,240
that before it was removed from the

3619
02:32:27,030 --> 02:32:25,040
archaeological site it was it was that

3620
02:32:28,950 --> 02:32:27,040
was it i mean it was the same

3621
02:32:30,870 --> 02:32:28,960
mummy yeah and for those that don't know

3622
02:32:34,150 --> 02:32:30,880
just to wrap up what happened to this

3623
02:32:36,150 --> 02:32:34,160
poor two-year-old child eventually

3624
02:32:37,510 --> 02:32:36,160
museums and and things in the united

3625
02:32:38,389 --> 02:32:37,520
states went you know it's really

3626
02:32:41,190 --> 02:32:38,399
disrespectful

3627
02:32:42,870 --> 02:32:41,200
to a human cadaver to put it on display

3628
02:32:44,790 --> 02:32:42,880
so we're going to bury it and that's

3629
02:32:46,950 --> 02:32:44,800
what they did they they gave it like a

3630
02:32:48,950 --> 02:32:46,960
regular you know they buried it with

3631
02:32:50,790 --> 02:32:48,960
respect because it's a human being and

3632
02:32:52,550 --> 02:32:50,800
you you know it's kind of disrespectful

3633
02:32:53,750 --> 02:32:52,560
to stick it in a case and let everybody

3634
02:32:56,070 --> 02:32:53,760
talk at it

3635
02:32:59,190 --> 02:32:56,080
so they eventually i think it was in the

3636
02:33:02,630 --> 02:32:59,200
50s or 60s maybe they they took it and

3637
02:33:04,389 --> 02:33:02,640
so this picture was taken in around 1947

3638
02:33:07,190 --> 02:33:04,399
or 48 and then

3639
02:33:09,750 --> 02:33:07,200
decades later because of the change in

3640
02:33:11,429 --> 02:33:09,760
thought and policy and i think pressure

3641
02:33:12,550 --> 02:33:11,439
from native american groups and other

3642
02:33:14,550 --> 02:33:12,560
things they

3643
02:33:16,070 --> 02:33:14,560
they took the body out of the museum and

3644
02:33:19,270 --> 02:33:16,080
they buried it so

3645
02:33:23,510 --> 02:33:19,280
yeah it was originally found

3646
02:33:25,830 --> 02:33:23,520
in either 1936 or 1939 i'm not sure

3647
02:33:28,630 --> 02:33:25,840
which way but it was in the

3648
02:33:32,230 --> 02:33:28,640
30s by a fella and a fellow by the name

3649
02:33:34,710 --> 02:33:32,240
s l palmer of san francisco had it

3650
02:33:36,630 --> 02:33:34,720
uh where it is today i couldn't tell you

3651
02:33:39,110 --> 02:33:36,640
but this i believe it's still buried

3652
02:33:41,590 --> 02:33:39,120
from the from what i know i i believe

3653
02:33:44,070 --> 02:33:41,600
they buried it after a certain time okay

3654
02:33:46,150 --> 02:33:44,080
and uh and that's what it was at the

3655
02:33:47,190 --> 02:33:46,160
montezuma's castle or something like

3656
02:33:48,469 --> 02:33:47,200
that in

3657
02:33:49,750 --> 02:33:48,479
new mexico

3658
02:33:51,270 --> 02:33:49,760
for a while

3659
02:33:52,630 --> 02:33:51,280
yeah what an interesting what an

3660
02:33:54,790 --> 02:33:52,640
interesting part of the history of

3661
02:33:57,110 --> 02:33:54,800
roswell just like all these other you

3662
02:33:58,630 --> 02:33:57,120
know i've often joked that if you want

3663
02:34:01,349 --> 02:33:58,640
it seems to me that hoaxers are

3664
02:34:03,190 --> 02:34:01,359
sometimes very crafty because they know

3665
02:34:05,510 --> 02:34:03,200
that there's a there's a already

3666
02:34:07,830 --> 02:34:05,520
believed mythology of roswell that there

3667
02:34:09,830 --> 02:34:07,840
were some bodies there was a crash

3668
02:34:12,309 --> 02:34:09,840
so these people they're doing hoaxes

3669
02:34:15,110 --> 02:34:12,319
they tack their hoax onto something

3670
02:34:17,750 --> 02:34:15,120
people already believe which is that

3671
02:34:18,630 --> 02:34:17,760
bodies may have crashed at roswell and

3672
02:34:20,950 --> 02:34:18,640
that

3673
02:34:22,630 --> 02:34:20,960
lends some legitimacy to their hoax

3674
02:34:23,670 --> 02:34:22,640
right

3675
02:34:25,990 --> 02:34:23,680
yeah

3676
02:34:27,750 --> 02:34:26,000
uh the other thing was that well i you

3677
02:34:29,670 --> 02:34:27,760
know i have a background in physical

3678
02:34:30,389 --> 02:34:29,680
anthropology

3679
02:34:33,670 --> 02:34:30,399
so

3680
02:34:34,870 --> 02:34:33,680
uh i made a number of calls

3681
02:34:37,990 --> 02:34:34,880
to

3682
02:34:39,830 --> 02:34:38,000
physical anthropologists

3683
02:34:40,630 --> 02:34:39,840
because i wanted them to take a look at

3684
02:34:44,469 --> 02:34:40,640
this

3685
02:34:46,630 --> 02:34:44,479
and tell me what they thought it was

3686
02:34:48,790 --> 02:34:46,640
and every one of them

3687
02:34:51,110 --> 02:34:48,800
what the first thing they wanted to know

3688
02:34:52,070 --> 02:34:51,120
was okay what's the background story to

3689
02:34:53,910 --> 02:34:52,080
this

3690
02:34:55,750 --> 02:34:53,920
as soon as they heard roswell they

3691
02:34:56,950 --> 02:34:55,760
couldn't they couldn't hang up fast

3692
02:34:57,910 --> 02:34:56,960
enough

3693
02:34:59,510 --> 02:34:57,920
yeah they don't want their name

3694
02:35:02,710 --> 02:34:59,520
associated with that because that could

3695
02:35:05,349 --> 02:35:02,720
be they wouldn't hang up fast enough

3696
02:35:08,150 --> 02:35:05,359
and uh but there were certainly some

3697
02:35:10,630 --> 02:35:08,160
medical and pathologists or physical

3698
02:35:15,190 --> 02:35:10,640
anthropologists that did did offer some

3699
02:35:20,550 --> 02:35:18,550
they were now phds but former fellow

3700
02:35:22,710 --> 02:35:20,560
graduate students along with me at the

3701
02:35:25,429 --> 02:35:22,720
university of toronto

3702
02:35:26,630 --> 02:35:25,439
so i knew them and

3703
02:35:28,510 --> 02:35:26,640
i knew that they were physical

3704
02:35:31,190 --> 02:35:28,520
anthropologists uh one was a

3705
02:35:32,950 --> 02:35:31,200
primatologist and the other was a uh

3706
02:35:34,550 --> 02:35:32,960
geneticist

3707
02:35:35,670 --> 02:35:34,560
and they offered me

3708
02:35:39,030 --> 02:35:35,680
uh

3709
02:35:41,910 --> 02:35:39,040
opinions the the primatologist said well

3710
02:35:44,230 --> 02:35:41,920
it's uh it's not a non-human primate

3711
02:35:45,830 --> 02:35:44,240
that's as that's as far as uh

3712
02:35:48,230 --> 02:35:45,840
she would go

3713
02:35:51,349 --> 02:35:48,240
uh she didn't know what what it was but

3714
02:35:52,950 --> 02:35:51,359
she said it's not uh not human

3715
02:35:54,389 --> 02:35:52,960
that's as far as she would go and the

3716
02:35:56,309 --> 02:35:54,399
other one

3717
02:35:58,550 --> 02:35:56,319
we used on the show

3718
02:36:00,790 --> 02:35:58,560
he still believes i mean i'm still in

3719
02:36:03,510 --> 02:36:00,800
touch with him he still believes that

3720
02:36:07,110 --> 02:36:03,520
it's from another planet because

3721
02:36:11,030 --> 02:36:07,120
uh he says the bone the bone

3722
02:36:13,910 --> 02:36:11,040
uh structure of it is is uh there's a

3723
02:36:15,990 --> 02:36:13,920
lot different than humans and he still

3724
02:36:17,830 --> 02:36:16,000
believes that but uh

3725
02:36:19,349 --> 02:36:17,840
well maybe it could be like a could it

3726
02:36:21,910 --> 02:36:19,359
be like a human

3727
02:36:24,070 --> 02:36:21,920
deformed human like this anakama that

3728
02:36:26,550 --> 02:36:24,080
stephen greer was pushing for so long

3729
02:36:27,590 --> 02:36:26,560
right yeah the one the one that got me

3730
02:36:32,950 --> 02:36:27,600
was

3731
02:36:35,750 --> 02:36:32,960
a website

3732
02:36:37,830 --> 02:36:35,760
and his uh big pitch is

3733
02:36:41,030 --> 02:36:37,840
if you have a any

3734
02:36:43,910 --> 02:36:41,040
any uh anthropological mysteries is it

3735
02:36:44,870 --> 02:36:43,920
please contact me i love anthropological

3736
02:36:46,469 --> 02:36:44,880
mystery

3737
02:36:49,110 --> 02:36:46,479
oh i heard to talk about this before

3738
02:36:51,590 --> 02:36:49,120
yeah so i called him up

3739
02:36:54,469 --> 02:36:51,600
and uh say oh yeah as soon as he heard

3740
02:36:56,469 --> 02:36:54,479
roswell oh oh oh uncle uncle i'm heading

3741
02:36:58,309 --> 02:36:56,479
over to africa i'm going to be back and

3742
02:37:02,230 --> 02:36:58,319
forth between here and africa for the

3743
02:37:03,830 --> 02:37:02,240
next year so i'm sorry i uh goodbye

3744
02:37:06,950 --> 02:37:03,840
yeah he didn't want to get involved yeah

3745
02:37:08,790 --> 02:37:06,960
mr mystery right yeah yeah what what an

3746
02:37:11,910 --> 02:37:08,800
interesting part of the

3747
02:37:13,750 --> 02:37:11,920
of the mythology right uh that this that

3748
02:37:16,790 --> 02:37:13,760
this whole event happened and i remember

3749
02:37:18,630 --> 02:37:16,800
like everybody was was tuned into this

3750
02:37:20,950 --> 02:37:18,640
waiting to see what would happen if the

3751
02:37:23,110 --> 02:37:20,960
proof would would finally come out and i

3752
02:37:26,790 --> 02:37:23,120
remember there was talk of like

3753
02:37:28,790 --> 02:37:26,800
uh finding it and you know getting dna

3754
02:37:30,950 --> 02:37:28,800
samples but nobody really knew where it

3755
02:37:33,270 --> 02:37:30,960
was because all we had was the slides

3756
02:37:34,150 --> 02:37:33,280
and it was a big huge story

3757
02:37:36,950 --> 02:37:34,160
yeah

3758
02:37:40,389 --> 02:37:36,960
well we uh we didn't have a slide that

3759
02:37:44,070 --> 02:37:40,399
you could uh crack the crack that

3760
02:37:46,070 --> 02:37:44,080
uh placard that was the biggest problem

3761
02:37:47,990 --> 02:37:46,080
apparently somebody got a hold of it i

3762
02:37:49,750 --> 02:37:48,000
don't know how they did to be honest

3763
02:37:51,750 --> 02:37:49,760
with you steve i don't know how they got

3764
02:37:53,349 --> 02:37:51,760
a hold of it we didn't get it wasn't

3765
02:37:55,510 --> 02:37:53,359
given to us

3766
02:37:58,790 --> 02:37:55,520
and uh you're right somebody made some

3767
02:38:01,910 --> 02:37:58,800
money on it on the uh the video uh they

3768
02:38:04,950 --> 02:38:01,920
had a big uh you could uh stream it live

3769
02:38:06,630 --> 02:38:04,960
live stream it on your computer

3770
02:38:08,870 --> 02:38:06,640
yeah i think it was like twenty dollars

3771
02:38:11,030 --> 02:38:08,880
it was like 20 dollars yeah it was like

3772
02:38:12,469 --> 02:38:11,040
twenty dollars to watch the live stream

3773
02:38:15,190 --> 02:38:12,479
and then they had it in multiple

3774
02:38:17,349 --> 02:38:15,200
languages even for the international

3775
02:38:20,950 --> 02:38:17,359
audience so yeah you're right somebody

3776
02:38:23,349 --> 02:38:20,960
made a ton of money on this on this

3777
02:38:25,910 --> 02:38:23,359
it wasn't us

3778
02:38:27,270 --> 02:38:25,920
yeah well let's let's see if we can move

3779
02:38:29,750 --> 02:38:27,280
on now because i have a whole bunch of

3780
02:38:31,990 --> 02:38:29,760
questions left and i'd like to leave

3781
02:38:33,990 --> 02:38:32,000
some time for the live chat to ask you

3782
02:38:35,910 --> 02:38:34,000
some questions if you don't mind i

3783
02:38:37,910 --> 02:38:35,920
wanted to get into

3784
02:38:41,110 --> 02:38:37,920
cal and i have another big disagreement

3785
02:38:43,510 --> 02:38:41,120
and that is on the debris switch because

3786
02:38:45,990 --> 02:38:43,520
cal's the whole issue with the debris

3787
02:38:48,070 --> 02:38:46,000
switch is that stan freeman made that up

3788
02:38:50,950 --> 02:38:48,080
there was no debris switch and for those

3789
02:38:53,830 --> 02:38:50,960
unaware those famous pictures of

3790
02:38:57,110 --> 02:38:53,840
you know uh people holding the debris

3791
02:38:59,590 --> 02:38:57,120
and then you know uh okay it's just it's

3792
02:39:02,710 --> 02:38:59,600
just weather balloon debris but later

3793
02:39:04,950 --> 02:39:02,720
marcel said that marcel both marcel and

3794
02:39:06,790 --> 02:39:04,960
dubose both who were in the room at the

3795
02:39:08,070 --> 02:39:06,800
time those famous pictures were taken

3796
02:39:10,230 --> 02:39:08,080
later said

3797
02:39:11,590 --> 02:39:10,240
that there was a debris switch the

3798
02:39:13,990 --> 02:39:11,600
debris that they held up in those

3799
02:39:16,870 --> 02:39:14,000
pictures was not the debris that they

3800
02:39:18,309 --> 02:39:16,880
picked up from the from the ranch right

3801
02:39:20,550 --> 02:39:18,319
can you talk a little bit about the

3802
02:39:21,670 --> 02:39:20,560
debris switch and what do you think

3803
02:39:25,270 --> 02:39:21,680
of

3804
02:39:27,270 --> 02:39:25,280
mr corp's assertion or bologna

3805
02:39:29,750 --> 02:39:27,280
the debris switch was just made up by

3806
02:39:31,830 --> 02:39:29,760
stan freeman to sell books

3807
02:39:32,870 --> 02:39:31,840
no uh

3808
02:39:38,469 --> 02:39:32,880
marcel

3809
02:39:40,550 --> 02:39:38,479
and uh friedman well it was uh

3810
02:39:43,510 --> 02:39:40,560
berlin and not for a litter but uh

3811
02:39:48,070 --> 02:39:43,520
berlitz and moore he says

3812
02:39:50,230 --> 02:39:48,080
he says it was switched his son jesse jr

3813
02:39:51,349 --> 02:39:50,240
who we also interviewed said it was

3814
02:39:52,790 --> 02:39:51,359
switched

3815
02:39:55,830 --> 02:39:52,800
and jesse

3816
02:39:58,309 --> 02:39:55,840
i never met jesse senior

3817
02:40:01,190 --> 02:39:58,319
uh i don't i don't know if don or kevin

3818
02:40:02,710 --> 02:40:01,200
did but i didn't i never met uh jesse

3819
02:40:04,630 --> 02:40:02,720
senior but his son

3820
02:40:06,950 --> 02:40:04,640
jesse jr

3821
02:40:09,270 --> 02:40:06,960
he he held pieces of the debris in his

3822
02:40:12,550 --> 02:40:09,280
hand especially the i-beam with the

3823
02:40:17,349 --> 02:40:15,269
he also said yes you know

3824
02:40:22,230 --> 02:40:17,359
he was there when his father came home

3825
02:40:23,190 --> 02:40:22,240
at 2am in the morning of july the 8th

3826
02:40:31,990 --> 02:40:23,200
with

3827
02:40:36,070 --> 02:40:32,000
had picked up on the foster ranch

3828
02:40:38,469 --> 02:40:36,080
and so he showed his son and his wife uh

3829
02:40:43,670 --> 02:40:38,479
i can't pronounce her last name via i

3830
02:40:47,269 --> 02:40:45,990
but he showed his wife and his son this

3831
02:40:49,750 --> 02:40:47,279
wreckage

3832
02:40:51,670 --> 02:40:49,760
and jesse jr who was a firsthand witness

3833
02:40:53,910 --> 02:40:51,680
to the record said it was he'd never

3834
02:40:56,550 --> 02:40:53,920
seen anything like it i mean he was 11

3835
02:40:59,349 --> 02:40:56,560
years old at the time granted but

3836
02:41:01,110 --> 02:40:59,359
he knew about aircraft to the planes and

3837
02:41:02,950 --> 02:41:01,120
things like that

3838
02:41:05,269 --> 02:41:02,960
they said there was this one piece it

3839
02:41:07,190 --> 02:41:05,279
was it looked like an uh an eye beam if

3840
02:41:09,349 --> 02:41:07,200
you looked at it sideways it had all

3841
02:41:11,670 --> 02:41:09,359
this funny writing on it

3842
02:41:13,429 --> 02:41:11,680
and uh he saw the wreckage

3843
02:41:16,710 --> 02:41:13,439
and it was not uh

3844
02:41:19,510 --> 02:41:16,720
it was not tin foil like a a ray wind

3845
02:41:20,309 --> 02:41:19,520
target it was not a balloon

3846
02:41:23,030 --> 02:41:20,319
so

3847
02:41:24,950 --> 02:41:23,040
uh you have him and his father saying

3848
02:41:27,670 --> 02:41:24,960
that record that's not what was seen in

3849
02:41:30,469 --> 02:41:27,680
the photographs

3850
02:41:31,349 --> 02:41:30,479
so i don't know what i don't know what

3851
02:41:33,990 --> 02:41:31,359
uh

3852
02:41:35,750 --> 02:41:34,000
whoever's talking about that is saying

3853
02:41:37,990 --> 02:41:35,760
yeah and one of the other things about

3854
02:41:38,790 --> 02:41:38,000
those pictures those famous pictures is

3855
02:41:43,269 --> 02:41:38,800
the

3856
02:41:44,630 --> 02:41:43,279
you know he's holding uh he's holding up

3857
02:41:47,030 --> 02:41:44,640
can you tell us a little bit about that

3858
02:41:50,309 --> 02:41:47,040
and what are your thoughts on

3859
02:41:51,670 --> 02:41:50,319
on whether or not that memo says bodies

3860
02:41:52,870 --> 02:41:51,680
and and

3861
02:41:54,950 --> 02:41:52,880
recovered

3862
02:41:57,510 --> 02:41:54,960
saucer and things like that do you think

3863
02:41:59,670 --> 02:41:57,520
that that is really good evidence or do

3864
02:42:01,510 --> 02:41:59,680
you think that people are reading into

3865
02:42:03,349 --> 02:42:01,520
that okay

3866
02:42:05,269 --> 02:42:03,359
just before i get to that stephen i want

3867
02:42:08,469 --> 02:42:05,279
to finish with this uh

3868
02:42:11,030 --> 02:42:08,479
certainly certainly uh there's a

3869
02:42:12,389 --> 02:42:11,040
another uh somebody another

3870
02:42:14,870 --> 02:42:12,399
investigators

3871
02:42:16,630 --> 02:42:14,880
trying to make a big issue

3872
02:42:19,590 --> 02:42:16,640
out of this so-called you know what the

3873
02:42:20,870 --> 02:42:19,600
the concept of chain of custody is

3874
02:42:22,790 --> 02:42:20,880
sure

3875
02:42:24,710 --> 02:42:22,800
you know you're like you have a you have

3876
02:42:27,030 --> 02:42:24,720
a murder weapon in it

3877
02:42:28,309 --> 02:42:27,040
in a criminal case what's the chain of

3878
02:42:31,670 --> 02:42:28,319
custody

3879
02:42:34,790 --> 02:42:31,680
who who who had access to that

3880
02:42:37,110 --> 02:42:34,800
murder weapon that by the time i got you

3881
02:42:39,590 --> 02:42:37,120
so they're trying to say that because

3882
02:42:42,309 --> 02:42:39,600
jesse marcel

3883
02:42:45,590 --> 02:42:42,319
stopped at his home

3884
02:42:47,670 --> 02:42:45,600
on the way back to the base

3885
02:42:50,230 --> 02:42:47,680
with that wreckage well it

3886
02:42:52,150 --> 02:42:50,240
it broke the chain of custody oh wow

3887
02:42:53,110 --> 02:42:52,160
jeez be still my heart

3888
02:42:57,670 --> 02:42:53,120
uh

3889
02:42:59,910 --> 02:42:57,680
of chain of custody is a recent legal

3890
02:43:01,830 --> 02:42:59,920
doctrine jesse marcel didn't know

3891
02:43:04,790 --> 02:43:01,840
anything about a so-called chain of

3892
02:43:06,830 --> 02:43:04,800
custody doctrine yeah not unfortunately

3893
02:43:09,429 --> 02:43:06,840
sure he wanted to show his

3894
02:43:11,349 --> 02:43:09,439
family something that they had never

3895
02:43:12,630 --> 02:43:11,359
seen before and we'll probably never see

3896
02:43:14,630 --> 02:43:12,640
again

3897
02:43:16,630 --> 02:43:14,640
and besides

3898
02:43:18,309 --> 02:43:16,640
legally today you would say oh yeah he

3899
02:43:20,150 --> 02:43:18,319
did break the chain of custody because

3900
02:43:22,230 --> 02:43:20,160
he didn't come straight back to the base

3901
02:43:24,790 --> 02:43:22,240
he stopped at home first oh so what did

3902
02:43:27,110 --> 02:43:24,800
he do he what did he do change a weather

3903
02:43:28,710 --> 02:43:27,120
balloon into a piece of a spaceship is

3904
02:43:30,710 --> 02:43:28,720
that what you're saying yeah it doesn't

3905
02:43:32,070 --> 02:43:30,720
make any sense it doesn't make any sense

3906
02:43:33,030 --> 02:43:32,080
and also

3907
02:43:35,429 --> 02:43:33,040
uh

3908
02:43:37,110 --> 02:43:35,439
you have a whole field a whole sheet

3909
02:43:39,349 --> 02:43:37,120
pasture full of

3910
02:43:41,510 --> 02:43:39,359
the wreckage out there this is only a

3911
02:43:45,030 --> 02:43:41,520
small portion of the wreckage you have a

3912
02:43:47,750 --> 02:43:45,040
whole three crash sites full of wreckage

3913
02:43:50,550 --> 02:43:47,760
that we do know the chain of custody so

3914
02:43:53,349 --> 02:43:50,560
but we can take we could take marcel out

3915
02:43:55,590 --> 02:43:53,359
of the picture and we still have a the

3916
02:43:58,070 --> 02:43:55,600
the roswell case

3917
02:43:59,590 --> 02:43:58,080
it's it's absolutely silly who's ever

3918
02:44:03,110 --> 02:43:59,600
making that

3919
02:44:05,030 --> 02:44:03,120
that uh argument absolutely

3920
02:44:06,389 --> 02:44:05,040
just one more point on the debris you

3921
02:44:08,469 --> 02:44:06,399
know these

3922
02:44:10,150 --> 02:44:08,479
marcel was an art he was army

3923
02:44:13,110 --> 02:44:10,160
intelligence he would have been familiar

3924
02:44:14,150 --> 02:44:13,120
with weather balloons and things so yeah

3925
02:44:21,190 --> 02:44:14,160
he knew

3926
02:44:24,710 --> 02:44:21,200
not going to make a mistake

3927
02:44:26,870 --> 02:44:24,720
of confusing a ray wind weather target

3928
02:44:28,870 --> 02:44:26,880
with a spaceship that traveled from

3929
02:44:30,710 --> 02:44:28,880
another planet that

3930
02:44:33,110 --> 02:44:30,720
yeah he famously said the thing the

3931
02:44:35,190 --> 02:44:33,120
material that i saw was not of this

3932
02:44:37,269 --> 02:44:35,200
earth that's what he said that's right

3933
02:44:39,670 --> 02:44:37,279
he said that impressed with it he said

3934
02:44:43,670 --> 02:44:39,680
it came to earth but it was not from

3935
02:44:45,510 --> 02:44:43,680
this earth it was from another planet uh

3936
02:44:47,750 --> 02:44:45,520
something like that

3937
02:44:49,670 --> 02:44:47,760
yeah so he he knew when he stopped at

3938
02:44:52,150 --> 02:44:49,680
home

3939
02:44:54,870 --> 02:44:52,160
on his way back to the base his son said

3940
02:44:57,670 --> 02:44:54,880
he was already talking about it as

3941
02:44:59,910 --> 02:44:57,680
pieces of a flying saucer he was already

3942
02:45:02,550 --> 02:44:59,920
talking about it even before he got back

3943
02:45:03,670 --> 02:45:02,560
to the base

3944
02:45:05,910 --> 02:45:03,680
wow

3945
02:45:07,670 --> 02:45:05,920
yeah so and then on to the raimi memo

3946
02:45:09,830 --> 02:45:07,680
because a lot has been oh yeah has been

3947
02:45:11,590 --> 02:45:09,840
said about the rainy memo and for those

3948
02:45:13,590 --> 02:45:11,600
that don't know in the in the famous

3949
02:45:15,349 --> 02:45:13,600
pictures that were taken of the roswell

3950
02:45:18,790 --> 02:45:15,359
debris

3951
02:45:20,710 --> 02:45:18,800
there's he's holding a a

3952
02:45:23,429 --> 02:45:20,720
a piece a sheet of paper

3953
02:45:26,070 --> 02:45:23,439
and a lot of people have claimed that

3954
02:45:28,230 --> 02:45:26,080
they were able to decipher exactly what

3955
02:45:31,670 --> 02:45:28,240
is on that piece of paper and it talked

3956
02:45:34,150 --> 02:45:31,680
about recovering alien bodies and a

3957
02:45:36,389 --> 02:45:34,160
crashed saucer what do you think of the

3958
02:45:37,910 --> 02:45:36,399
validity of that as evidence and do you

3959
02:45:40,070 --> 02:45:37,920
think that that

3960
02:45:41,510 --> 02:45:40,080
case will ever be cracked with better

3961
02:45:44,469 --> 02:45:41,520
energy software

3962
02:45:47,190 --> 02:45:44,479
i can tell you firsthand

3963
02:45:51,110 --> 02:45:47,200
uh this is even before i heard of david

3964
02:45:53,349 --> 02:45:51,120
rudiak who did most of the work on this

3965
02:45:56,230 --> 02:45:53,359
most of the best work

3966
02:45:59,830 --> 02:45:56,240
um

3967
02:46:02,070 --> 02:45:59,840
stanton friedman had gone to

3968
02:46:05,990 --> 02:46:02,080
the uh

3969
02:46:06,870 --> 02:46:06,000
bettman archives at the um

3970
02:46:12,150 --> 02:46:06,880
uh

3971
02:46:15,269 --> 02:46:12,160
images are stored the

3972
02:46:17,910 --> 02:46:15,279
university of texas at arlington

3973
02:46:19,990 --> 02:46:17,920
archives that's where the photo images

3974
02:46:21,429 --> 02:46:20,000
are stored and he had a

3975
02:46:23,670 --> 02:46:21,439
he had the

3976
02:46:26,469 --> 02:46:23,680
photo in question

3977
02:46:28,230 --> 02:46:26,479
a photograph

3978
02:46:29,190 --> 02:46:28,240
and he made a

3979
02:46:31,750 --> 02:46:29,200
uh

3980
02:46:35,030 --> 02:46:31,760
cd disc out of it

3981
02:46:39,750 --> 02:46:35,040
uh dvd or cd i

3982
02:46:40,950 --> 02:46:39,760
you know with images of the of of the uh

3983
02:46:44,070 --> 02:46:40,960
memo

3984
02:46:45,590 --> 02:46:44,080
so i called up stan i said you know

3985
02:46:48,150 --> 02:46:45,600
i'm good for the money i'll send you he

3986
02:46:49,990 --> 02:46:48,160
was selling it for 25 i said

3987
02:46:52,790 --> 02:46:50,000
send it to me and the check is in the

3988
02:46:55,750 --> 02:46:52,800
mail so the stand sent set here

3989
02:46:58,150 --> 02:46:55,760
yeah i got one of those too yeah so here

3990
02:47:01,110 --> 02:46:58,160
i have it on a shelf over here

3991
02:47:03,750 --> 02:47:01,120
i do before he died i i got to interview

3992
02:47:05,269 --> 02:47:03,760
him about a year ago two years before he

3993
02:47:07,830 --> 02:47:05,279
died and one of the things we talked

3994
02:47:09,990 --> 02:47:07,840
about off there was that was that high

3995
02:47:11,590 --> 02:47:10,000
quality scan and i said i'm a computer

3996
02:47:13,030 --> 02:47:11,600
science guy send it to me i might be

3997
02:47:14,950 --> 02:47:13,040
able to get something out of it i wasn't

3998
02:47:17,590 --> 02:47:14,960
able to do any better than mister what

3999
02:47:19,110 --> 02:47:17,600
was rudiac right here's here's what

4000
02:47:21,750 --> 02:47:19,120
happened to me

4001
02:47:23,349 --> 02:47:21,760
so i had not heard of david rudiak i

4002
02:47:24,150 --> 02:47:23,359
didn't know what the i didn't know what

4003
02:47:28,950 --> 02:47:24,160
the

4004
02:47:33,110 --> 02:47:30,790
at um

4005
02:47:37,269 --> 02:47:33,120
so i put it in my computer

4006
02:47:39,590 --> 02:47:37,279
and within 10 seconds stephen i read

4007
02:47:41,670 --> 02:47:39,600
the victims of the wreck you forwarded

4008
02:47:44,550 --> 02:47:41,680
to and then raymie's thumb is in the

4009
02:47:47,429 --> 02:47:44,560
picture at fort worth texas within 10

4010
02:47:49,510 --> 02:47:47,439
seconds i read the victims of the wreck

4011
02:47:51,269 --> 02:47:49,520
you forwarded to

4012
02:47:53,190 --> 02:47:51,279
fort worth texas

4013
02:47:55,510 --> 02:47:53,200
that's no lie

4014
02:47:57,910 --> 02:47:55,520
and other words that i could looking

4015
02:48:00,469 --> 02:47:57,920
down i i read

4016
02:48:02,950 --> 02:48:00,479
i could read meaning of the story i

4017
02:48:05,269 --> 02:48:02,960
could read meaning of the story

4018
02:48:06,550 --> 02:48:05,279
and i could also read whether balloons

4019
02:48:09,190 --> 02:48:06,560
would bake

4020
02:48:11,830 --> 02:48:09,200
or whether balloons would fare

4021
02:48:13,830 --> 02:48:11,840
and something and the last sentence was

4022
02:48:18,710 --> 02:48:13,840
uh

4023
02:48:21,510 --> 02:48:18,720
crews though something cruz work crews

4024
02:48:22,630 --> 02:48:21,520
demo crews something about uh crews

4025
02:48:25,590 --> 02:48:22,640
[Music]

4026
02:48:28,630 --> 02:48:25,600
and uh oh i could also see the word

4027
02:48:32,230 --> 02:48:28,640
something in or on the disc the word

4028
02:48:34,710 --> 02:48:32,240
disc was in quote quotation marks

4029
02:48:37,750 --> 02:48:34,720
so that's what i could read

4030
02:48:39,830 --> 02:48:37,760
and uh david rudiak who's a uh doctor of

4031
02:48:42,230 --> 02:48:39,840
optometry

4032
02:48:44,550 --> 02:48:42,240
yeah he's got he's got a better uh he's

4033
02:48:47,429 --> 02:48:44,560
got a better resume than me but i still

4034
02:48:49,429 --> 02:48:47,439
thought i'd give it a shot i i did and i

4035
02:48:52,230 --> 02:48:49,439
wasn't able to do any better but i

4036
02:48:54,710 --> 02:48:52,240
probably did worse than him

4037
02:48:56,630 --> 02:48:54,720
david rudiak it was able to get more out

4038
02:48:59,269 --> 02:48:56,640
of it because he worked

4039
02:49:01,990 --> 02:48:59,279
you know feverishly on it and he was

4040
02:49:05,110 --> 02:49:02,000
able to translate more of it

4041
02:49:08,389 --> 02:49:05,120
and uh what it's talking about it's uh

4042
02:49:09,670 --> 02:49:08,399
talking about a second site

4043
02:49:14,790 --> 02:49:09,680
uh

4044
02:49:17,190 --> 02:49:14,800
ray win

4045
02:49:20,150 --> 02:49:17,200
demonstrations and they did the

4046
02:49:21,750 --> 02:49:20,160
the on july starting on july 10

4047
02:49:24,150 --> 02:49:21,760
they had the uh

4048
02:49:27,190 --> 02:49:24,160
army air corps do or the army do these

4049
02:49:29,910 --> 02:49:27,200
demonstrations of these weather balloons

4050
02:49:32,389 --> 02:49:29,920
attached to a radar target to sort of

4051
02:49:34,150 --> 02:49:32,399
prove the press release that it wasn't a

4052
02:49:38,150 --> 02:49:34,160
spaceship but a uh

4053
02:49:44,469 --> 02:49:41,510
tinfoil target so it talks about having

4054
02:49:46,790 --> 02:49:44,479
uh raywin demonstration crews that's

4055
02:49:49,110 --> 02:49:46,800
what it was doing

4056
02:49:50,870 --> 02:49:49,120
and uh for the next couple days they had

4057
02:49:51,990 --> 02:49:50,880
these demonstrations all over the

4058
02:49:54,630 --> 02:49:52,000
country

4059
02:49:55,590 --> 02:49:54,640
with these uh mobile

4060
02:49:57,030 --> 02:49:55,600
uh

4061
02:49:59,590 --> 02:49:57,040
launches of the

4062
02:50:00,309 --> 02:49:59,600
the weather balloon and the radar target

4063
02:50:02,710 --> 02:50:00,319
so

4064
02:50:04,389 --> 02:50:02,720
uh hats off to david rudiak he did the

4065
02:50:07,030 --> 02:50:04,399
most work on this

4066
02:50:08,630 --> 02:50:07,040
and uh apparently i've heard i heard

4067
02:50:11,030 --> 02:50:08,640
critics just say well they're people are

4068
02:50:12,710 --> 02:50:11,040
reading whatever they want but i mean

4069
02:50:16,469 --> 02:50:12,720
it seems to me it seems to me to be a

4070
02:50:19,030 --> 02:50:16,479
very scientific analysis of this memo

4071
02:50:21,349 --> 02:50:19,040
from a super high quality scan that stan

4072
02:50:23,990 --> 02:50:21,359
freeman got from the original archive

4073
02:50:27,190 --> 02:50:24,000
from the original negatives of the photo

4074
02:50:29,190 --> 02:50:27,200
the super high quality scan of the photo

4075
02:50:31,190 --> 02:50:29,200
so they got the most

4076
02:50:32,870 --> 02:50:31,200
high quality image that they could and

4077
02:50:34,070 --> 02:50:32,880
then it was scientifically

4078
02:50:35,269 --> 02:50:34,080
analyzed

4079
02:50:38,030 --> 02:50:35,279
when i

4080
02:50:40,630 --> 02:50:38,040
looked at it the first time i had no pre

4081
02:50:42,070 --> 02:50:40,640
preconceptions of what it was going to

4082
02:50:44,550 --> 02:50:42,080
say

4083
02:50:45,670 --> 02:50:44,560
when you have to uh

4084
02:50:48,070 --> 02:50:45,680
uh

4085
02:50:52,630 --> 02:50:48,080
think of the circumstances

4086
02:50:55,190 --> 02:50:52,640
it's he's holding the memo in his hand

4087
02:50:58,070 --> 02:50:55,200
at a press conference

4088
02:51:00,710 --> 02:50:58,080
that's that's going to take away it's

4089
02:51:04,630 --> 02:51:00,720
going to explain away

4090
02:51:05,990 --> 02:51:04,640
ufo or flying saucer crash wreckage as a

4091
02:51:08,309 --> 02:51:06,000
ray wind

4092
02:51:11,110 --> 02:51:08,319
weather balloon target

4093
02:51:13,910 --> 02:51:11,120
so that he has that in his hand

4094
02:51:15,349 --> 02:51:13,920
and uh there were seven photographs

4095
02:51:17,030 --> 02:51:15,359
taken

4096
02:51:19,429 --> 02:51:17,040
six of them of uh

4097
02:51:21,030 --> 02:51:19,439
let's see two of them of uh jessie

4098
02:51:24,309 --> 02:51:21,040
marcel

4099
02:51:26,630 --> 02:51:24,319
two of general raymie by himself two of

4100
02:51:29,269 --> 02:51:26,640
general raymie with his uh

4101
02:51:32,309 --> 02:51:29,279
adjutant uh thomas jefferson dubose

4102
02:51:33,190 --> 02:51:32,319
dubose yeah and one with uh the weather

4103
02:51:35,670 --> 02:51:33,200
guy

4104
02:51:38,309 --> 02:51:35,680
irving newton who he called in

4105
02:51:41,670 --> 02:51:38,319
but between those seven photos you could

4106
02:51:43,910 --> 02:51:41,680
tell what the sequence of the photos

4107
02:51:45,750 --> 02:51:43,920
and what sequence they were taken by the

4108
02:51:46,870 --> 02:51:45,760
memo in his hand

4109
02:51:48,469 --> 02:51:46,880
because

4110
02:51:50,870 --> 02:51:48,479
the the first

4111
02:51:53,429 --> 02:51:50,880
uh photo in the sequence he's just

4112
02:51:56,950 --> 02:51:53,439
received the memo it's only folded over

4113
02:51:59,269 --> 02:51:56,960
once but in that final photo that shows

4114
02:52:00,950 --> 02:51:59,279
the uh

4115
02:52:03,349 --> 02:52:00,960
the wording that we're talking about you

4116
02:52:06,150 --> 02:52:03,359
can see it's been photo folded several

4117
02:52:07,590 --> 02:52:06,160
times so that's the final photo he's

4118
02:52:10,150 --> 02:52:07,600
trying to grab

4119
02:52:12,950 --> 02:52:10,160
a look at it what it's saying between

4120
02:52:14,710 --> 02:52:12,960
shots and that's what happened

4121
02:52:16,389 --> 02:52:14,720
yeah and it's very tantalizing because

4122
02:52:18,309 --> 02:52:16,399
some of the even some of these images i

4123
02:52:20,630 --> 02:52:18,319
mean it looks like you can almost read

4124
02:52:23,269 --> 02:52:20,640
it and these are like you know

4125
02:52:25,510 --> 02:52:23,279
the problem stephen is that

4126
02:52:28,469 --> 02:52:25,520
uh if you enlarge it you're also

4127
02:52:30,550 --> 02:52:28,479
enlarging the grain the green the photo

4128
02:52:33,910 --> 02:52:30,560
was taken from about

4129
02:52:36,070 --> 02:52:33,920
15 feet away i would say 10 to 15 feet

4130
02:52:40,830 --> 02:52:36,080
away and it's a little

4131
02:52:42,309 --> 02:52:40,840
you know a little telex or uh memorandum

4132
02:52:44,070 --> 02:52:42,319
yeah you have to

4133
02:52:46,150 --> 02:52:44,080
you have to keep enlarging it and when

4134
02:52:49,030 --> 02:52:46,160
you do that you also enlarge the

4135
02:52:50,710 --> 02:52:49,040
distortion in the grain so it's

4136
02:52:52,870 --> 02:52:50,720
pretty much all we're going to get out

4137
02:52:55,750 --> 02:52:52,880
of it well do you think though that like

4138
02:52:58,309 --> 02:52:55,760
maybe in 10 or 20 years when a photo

4139
02:52:59,990 --> 02:52:58,319
image analysis software gets better that

4140
02:53:01,750 --> 02:53:00,000
we might be able to get more out of it

4141
02:53:04,870 --> 02:53:01,760
or do you guys haven't gotten all i hope

4142
02:53:06,550 --> 02:53:04,880
so i hope it's sooner than that

4143
02:53:08,150 --> 02:53:06,560
yeah it just always seems so tantalizing

4144
02:53:10,550 --> 02:53:08,160
because here we just see this image and

4145
02:53:12,950 --> 02:53:10,560
it looks even in this image which is

4146
02:53:14,870 --> 02:53:12,960
just like a crop of the original photo

4147
02:53:16,710 --> 02:53:14,880
it looks like you can almost read it

4148
02:53:19,349 --> 02:53:16,720
right it really does look like you can

4149
02:53:21,670 --> 02:53:19,359
almost read it i've tried it for over

4150
02:53:24,230 --> 02:53:21,680
let's see i i forget what year i got it

4151
02:53:27,030 --> 02:53:24,240
but it seems like i've been trying for

4152
02:53:29,349 --> 02:53:27,040
20 years okay maybe today i'll learn

4153
02:53:30,469 --> 02:53:29,359
i'll be able to see more but it it never

4154
02:53:31,670 --> 02:53:30,479
happens

4155
02:53:34,070 --> 02:53:31,680
all right

4156
02:53:37,269 --> 02:53:34,080
i guess i get a better if not unless i

4157
02:53:39,590 --> 02:53:37,279
get a better photo package sure and i

4158
02:53:41,990 --> 02:53:39,600
guess moving on i wanted to discuss the

4159
02:53:43,429 --> 02:53:42,000
multiple crash sites because there seems

4160
02:53:45,590 --> 02:53:43,439
to be some debate even amongst

4161
02:53:47,830 --> 02:53:45,600
researchers that are pro the alien

4162
02:53:49,429 --> 02:53:47,840
hypothesis

4163
02:53:51,510 --> 02:53:49,439
some people believe that these

4164
02:53:54,070 --> 02:53:51,520
additional crash sites were tacked on

4165
02:53:55,750 --> 02:53:54,080
after the actual event and and that

4166
02:53:57,190 --> 02:53:55,760
there was really only one crash site

4167
02:53:58,790 --> 02:53:57,200
some people say there was

4168
02:54:00,469 --> 02:53:58,800
a lot of people say there was two and

4169
02:54:03,510 --> 02:54:00,479
i've heard some people say no there was

4170
02:54:05,590 --> 02:54:03,520
three different crash or debris sites

4171
02:54:08,230 --> 02:54:05,600
can you talk a little bit about

4172
02:54:09,910 --> 02:54:08,240
the sequence of events that led to the

4173
02:54:12,710 --> 02:54:09,920
multiple

4174
02:54:14,070 --> 02:54:12,720
crash sites if you believe there was

4175
02:54:17,110 --> 02:54:14,080
yes

4176
02:54:21,190 --> 02:54:17,120
when i first got started on the case of

4177
02:54:25,590 --> 02:54:22,790
uh

4178
02:54:28,469 --> 02:54:25,600
the the only book out at that time was

4179
02:54:32,469 --> 02:54:28,479
the roswell incident by

4180
02:54:33,750 --> 02:54:32,479
uh charles burlitz and william moore

4181
02:54:35,590 --> 02:54:33,760
that was good

4182
02:54:36,630 --> 02:54:35,600
that was the only book out stanton

4183
02:54:39,510 --> 02:54:36,640
friedman

4184
02:54:41,670 --> 02:54:39,520
work did the investigation with moore

4185
02:54:43,590 --> 02:54:41,680
berlitz had the big name because he had

4186
02:54:46,710 --> 02:54:43,600
just written a book about the bermuda

4187
02:54:49,590 --> 02:54:46,720
triangle which was a big seller so

4188
02:54:50,870 --> 02:54:49,600
that's how they put his name on the book

4189
02:54:51,670 --> 02:54:50,880
um

4190
02:54:54,230 --> 02:54:51,680
but

4191
02:54:57,110 --> 02:54:54,240
in the roswell incident they have the

4192
02:54:59,429 --> 02:54:57,120
mac razzle story

4193
02:55:02,469 --> 02:54:59,439
with that one debris we call it the

4194
02:55:03,510 --> 02:55:02,479
debris field site

4195
02:55:07,830 --> 02:55:03,520
up

4196
02:55:10,469 --> 02:55:07,840
33 miles southeast of corona new mexico

4197
02:55:11,349 --> 02:55:10,479
that's where the ship exploded in the

4198
02:55:12,630 --> 02:55:11,359
air

4199
02:55:15,030 --> 02:55:12,640
and all this

4200
02:55:19,110 --> 02:55:15,040
debris came floating down

4201
02:55:21,190 --> 02:55:19,120
on the evening of july the second 1947.

4202
02:55:23,830 --> 02:55:21,200
that's that's the first site that

4203
02:55:25,429 --> 02:55:23,840
anybody knew about

4204
02:55:26,469 --> 02:55:25,439
and uh

4205
02:55:27,910 --> 02:55:26,479
so

4206
02:55:30,870 --> 02:55:27,920
uh

4207
02:55:33,590 --> 02:55:30,880
maureen friedman that you know that they

4208
02:55:36,150 --> 02:55:33,600
had heard stories about bodies

4209
02:55:38,710 --> 02:55:36,160
but there were no bodies at that site it

4210
02:55:41,590 --> 02:55:38,720
just physical wreckage

4211
02:55:45,030 --> 02:55:41,600
the only body site circulating at that

4212
02:55:49,030 --> 02:55:45,040
time was a story by a soil conservation

4213
02:55:50,710 --> 02:55:49,040
engineer by the name of barney barnett

4214
02:55:54,870 --> 02:55:50,720
who

4215
02:55:58,230 --> 02:55:54,880
worked out of office in socorro

4216
02:55:59,429 --> 02:55:58,240
new mexico and his story was that uh

4217
02:56:01,349 --> 02:55:59,439
when one

4218
02:56:02,630 --> 02:56:01,359
he was coming home from daddle new

4219
02:56:03,910 --> 02:56:02,640
mexico

4220
02:56:05,670 --> 02:56:03,920
one day

4221
02:56:07,429 --> 02:56:05,680
and something caught his eye out in the

4222
02:56:09,910 --> 02:56:07,439
desert

4223
02:56:12,389 --> 02:56:09,920
and so he went out to investigate and it

4224
02:56:14,230 --> 02:56:12,399
was a crashed flying saucer

4225
02:56:16,070 --> 02:56:14,240
with a couple with

4226
02:56:18,070 --> 02:56:16,080
alien bodies

4227
02:56:20,710 --> 02:56:18,080
strewn about

4228
02:56:22,550 --> 02:56:20,720
and uh it was on the plains of san

4229
02:56:25,269 --> 02:56:22,560
agustin

4230
02:56:26,950 --> 02:56:25,279
and uh that was the only body story

4231
02:56:29,429 --> 02:56:26,960
going around so

4232
02:56:32,389 --> 02:56:29,439
friedman and moore attacked that that

4233
02:56:34,870 --> 02:56:32,399
barney barnett story

4234
02:56:39,269 --> 02:56:34,880
on to the roswell story

4235
02:56:41,510 --> 02:56:39,279
and uh the that site is 150 miles west

4236
02:56:43,269 --> 02:56:41,520
of the corona site

4237
02:56:45,110 --> 02:56:43,279
so when i

4238
02:56:46,309 --> 02:56:45,120
entered the case

4239
02:56:48,309 --> 02:56:46,319
uh

4240
02:56:49,429 --> 02:56:48,319
randall and schmidt had already pretty

4241
02:56:51,590 --> 02:56:49,439
much

4242
02:56:54,790 --> 02:56:51,600
dismissed

4243
02:56:57,750 --> 02:56:54,800
the corona the the socorro site plays

4244
02:56:59,910 --> 02:56:57,760
the san augustin as having anything to

4245
02:57:02,230 --> 02:56:59,920
do with the roswell site because there

4246
02:57:03,190 --> 02:57:02,240
was only the one witness barney barnett

4247
02:57:07,510 --> 02:57:03,200
there were

4248
02:57:09,910 --> 02:57:07,520
no other witnesses military or civilian

4249
02:57:11,990 --> 02:57:09,920
blah blah blah nothing nothing to go on

4250
02:57:13,750 --> 02:57:12,000
just that the one story from barney

4251
02:57:17,510 --> 02:57:13,760
barnett

4252
02:57:20,150 --> 02:57:17,520
and uh they had they had had

4253
02:57:21,670 --> 02:57:20,160
witnesses telling randall and shred of

4254
02:57:24,150 --> 02:57:21,680
another site

4255
02:57:25,910 --> 02:57:24,160
closer to roswell

4256
02:57:28,070 --> 02:57:25,920
well

4257
02:57:29,110 --> 02:57:28,080
they discovered a site through one of

4258
02:57:35,670 --> 02:57:29,120
the

4259
02:57:37,190 --> 02:57:35,680
field site his name was timothy d

4260
02:57:40,630 --> 02:57:37,200
brocker

4261
02:57:43,030 --> 02:57:40,640
that there was a secondary site

4262
02:57:44,710 --> 02:57:43,040
two and a half miles east of the debris

4263
02:57:47,030 --> 02:57:44,720
field site

4264
02:57:49,349 --> 02:57:47,040
and he was uh he he was with mack

4265
02:57:51,190 --> 02:57:49,359
browser when they found it and at that

4266
02:57:53,190 --> 02:57:51,200
site

4267
02:57:55,190 --> 02:57:53,200
he told his mother and we got the story

4268
02:57:58,950 --> 02:57:55,200
from his mother

4269
02:58:02,469 --> 02:57:58,960
here's where mac found something else

4270
02:58:04,550 --> 02:58:02,479
it was a low bluff

4271
02:58:06,230 --> 02:58:04,560
and uh

4272
02:58:08,389 --> 02:58:06,240
he took his mother out there when she

4273
02:58:10,550 --> 02:58:08,399
was doing her secret he she he thought

4274
02:58:14,230 --> 02:58:10,560
she was on her deathbed but he was so

4275
02:58:16,150 --> 02:58:14,240
determined to show her this like

4276
02:58:17,990 --> 02:58:16,160
before she passed away well she didn't

4277
02:58:19,190 --> 02:58:18,000
she only passed away many years later

4278
02:58:21,030 --> 02:58:19,200
but he

4279
02:58:22,950 --> 02:58:21,040
plopped her in his pickup truck and out

4280
02:58:24,790 --> 02:58:22,960
into the desert they go

4281
02:58:26,389 --> 02:58:24,800
and he took her to this low bluff two

4282
02:58:28,469 --> 02:58:26,399
and a half miles east of the debris

4283
02:58:30,070 --> 02:58:28,479
field site he said mom

4284
02:58:32,790 --> 02:58:30,080
this is where mac

4285
02:58:34,950 --> 02:58:32,800
found something else

4286
02:58:38,710 --> 02:58:34,960
now that something else

4287
02:58:40,870 --> 02:58:38,720
was not wreckage it was two bodies

4288
02:58:42,950 --> 02:58:40,880
it was two bodies that when the ship

4289
02:58:44,070 --> 02:58:42,960
exploded

4290
02:58:44,790 --> 02:58:44,080
these two

4291
02:58:47,910 --> 02:58:44,800
the

4292
02:58:50,630 --> 02:58:47,920
two uh aliens were thrown out

4293
02:58:51,990 --> 02:58:50,640
and they came to rest on this

4294
02:58:54,309 --> 02:58:52,000
low bluff

4295
02:58:56,950 --> 02:58:54,319
and that's the second sight we call it

4296
02:58:59,510 --> 02:58:56,960
the deep proctor body site

4297
02:59:01,590 --> 02:58:59,520
he wouldn't he wouldn't take his

4298
02:59:03,910 --> 02:59:01,600
deathbed mother out this show or another

4299
02:59:05,830 --> 02:59:03,920
site well here's where matt matt found

4300
02:59:07,910 --> 02:59:05,840
some more wreckage i mean there was so

4301
02:59:08,790 --> 02:59:07,920
much wreckage in the debris field site i

4302
02:59:10,870 --> 02:59:08,800
mean

4303
02:59:12,830 --> 02:59:10,880
it just wasn't it wasn't anything that

4304
02:59:14,710 --> 02:59:12,840
he would do that so

4305
02:59:16,389 --> 02:59:14,720
uh

4306
02:59:18,550 --> 02:59:16,399
it was two bodies

4307
02:59:20,070 --> 02:59:18,560
so that's the second site two and a half

4308
02:59:22,469 --> 02:59:20,080
miles east

4309
02:59:24,469 --> 02:59:22,479
of the debris field site

4310
02:59:29,990 --> 02:59:24,479
well we had a number of witnesses

4311
02:59:33,990 --> 02:59:31,670
isn't there when there's plane crashes

4312
02:59:36,230 --> 02:59:34,000
you could find bodies miles away from

4313
02:59:38,469 --> 02:59:36,240
the main debris site or

4314
02:59:40,950 --> 02:59:38,479
i would think so right

4315
02:59:43,910 --> 02:59:40,960
well it's only two and a half miles i

4316
02:59:45,349 --> 02:59:43,920
mean the thing exploded

4317
02:59:47,670 --> 02:59:45,359
and uh

4318
02:59:51,190 --> 02:59:47,680
the thing was that

4319
02:59:54,469 --> 02:59:51,200
the inner cabin of the ship

4320
02:59:56,950 --> 02:59:54,479
or an escape pod of some sort

4321
02:59:58,389 --> 02:59:56,960
withstood

4322
03:00:00,550 --> 02:59:58,399
the blast

4323
03:00:02,950 --> 03:00:00,560
there was another there was a there was

4324
03:00:04,550 --> 03:00:02,960
a capsule inside where there was the

4325
03:00:06,950 --> 03:00:04,560
inner cabin or so

4326
03:00:09,030 --> 03:00:06,960
something was able it was it was

4327
03:00:11,110 --> 03:00:09,040
egg-shaped

4328
03:00:15,349 --> 03:00:11,120
it was able to withstand the blast that

4329
03:00:17,830 --> 03:00:15,359
continued on for another 30 miles

4330
03:00:20,389 --> 03:00:17,840
and came to rest 32

4331
03:00:22,550 --> 03:00:20,399
miles north northwest of roswell now

4332
03:00:25,190 --> 03:00:22,560
apparently these two creatures

4333
03:00:26,230 --> 03:00:25,200
or aliens we're not inside

4334
03:00:31,269 --> 03:00:26,240
this

4335
03:00:34,230 --> 03:00:31,279
outside of it and we're blown out and

4336
03:00:36,710 --> 03:00:34,240
they came to rest down on this uh

4337
03:00:38,710 --> 03:00:36,720
this uh low bluff

4338
03:00:40,950 --> 03:00:38,720
we had another witness who told about

4339
03:00:42,070 --> 03:00:40,960
told about that site and seeing the

4340
03:00:44,230 --> 03:00:42,080
bodies

4341
03:00:46,950 --> 03:00:44,240
there's a second witness besides d

4342
03:00:49,190 --> 03:00:46,960
procter who who actually

4343
03:00:50,469 --> 03:00:49,200
described the bodies to us

4344
03:00:53,670 --> 03:00:50,479
well

4345
03:00:58,150 --> 03:00:53,680
this capsule it continues on for another

4346
03:01:01,349 --> 03:00:58,160
30 miles and finally comes to rest

4347
03:01:04,950 --> 03:01:01,359
32 miles north northwest

4348
03:01:07,910 --> 03:01:04,960
of roswell we call that the impact site

4349
03:01:09,429 --> 03:01:07,920
that's where uh in addition to this

4350
03:01:10,870 --> 03:01:09,439
this uh

4351
03:01:12,070 --> 03:01:10,880
egg-shaped

4352
03:01:13,750 --> 03:01:12,080
affair

4353
03:01:17,030 --> 03:01:13,760
was found

4354
03:01:19,750 --> 03:01:17,040
two more dead aliens were found and one

4355
03:01:24,309 --> 03:01:19,760
was still alive was found at this third

4356
03:01:28,230 --> 03:01:26,309
okay well that makes a little more sense

4357
03:01:30,230 --> 03:01:28,240
to me and it seems to be a logical thing

4358
03:01:32,150 --> 03:01:30,240
that if there was a you know some kind

4359
03:01:33,990 --> 03:01:32,160
of event that caused the craft to go

4360
03:01:35,830 --> 03:01:34,000
down that it could come down three

4361
03:01:38,070 --> 03:01:35,840
separate places just like an airplane

4362
03:01:40,710 --> 03:01:38,080
could come down three separate places

4363
03:01:42,230 --> 03:01:40,720
but back to the bodies

4364
03:01:44,230 --> 03:01:42,240
you've talked to a lot of witnesses

4365
03:01:46,070 --> 03:01:44,240
about what happened to the bodies can

4366
03:01:48,230 --> 03:01:46,080
you talk briefly about

4367
03:01:49,750 --> 03:01:48,240
what what did they do the government

4368
03:01:51,510 --> 03:01:49,760
with these bodies

4369
03:01:55,190 --> 03:01:51,520
well

4370
03:01:56,790 --> 03:01:55,200
the uh the dead ones of course were uh

4371
03:01:58,790 --> 03:01:56,800
boxed up

4372
03:02:00,830 --> 03:01:58,800
uh

4373
03:02:04,550 --> 03:02:00,840
i mean there was a call to this

4374
03:02:06,870 --> 03:02:04,560
mortician glenn dennis uh

4375
03:02:08,550 --> 03:02:06,880
at least he told the story at the time

4376
03:02:10,309 --> 03:02:08,560
we have witnessed that he

4377
03:02:12,950 --> 03:02:10,319
that he told people at the time that he

4378
03:02:16,710 --> 03:02:12,960
had received calls from the air base

4379
03:02:19,190 --> 03:02:16,720
roswell army airfield as was called

4380
03:02:22,269 --> 03:02:19,200
uh he had received calls

4381
03:02:25,510 --> 03:02:22,279
inquiring about their availability of

4382
03:02:28,469 --> 03:02:25,520
child-sized caskets

4383
03:02:32,389 --> 03:02:28,479
and uh glenn's glenn i think he said

4384
03:02:34,309 --> 03:02:32,399
well we have one but we can get more

4385
03:02:36,870 --> 03:02:34,319
and uh

4386
03:02:39,190 --> 03:02:36,880
they actually uh next door to ballard's

4387
03:02:41,190 --> 03:02:39,200
at the time there was a mortuary

4388
03:02:44,150 --> 03:02:41,200
services department you know that sold

4389
03:02:45,750 --> 03:02:44,160
things like tombstones and caskets and

4390
03:02:47,429 --> 03:02:45,760
all that sort of stuff

4391
03:02:50,150 --> 03:02:47,439
and uh

4392
03:02:53,670 --> 03:02:50,160
they actually went to amarillo

4393
03:02:56,830 --> 03:02:53,680
and picked up the caskets

4394
03:02:58,550 --> 03:02:56,840
so the story about caskets is true

4395
03:03:00,309 --> 03:02:58,560
because

4396
03:03:02,950 --> 03:03:00,319
glen dennis told

4397
03:03:05,510 --> 03:03:02,960
two of the witnesses that we we know of

4398
03:03:07,510 --> 03:03:05,520
he told it to where one was a policeman

4399
03:03:08,469 --> 03:03:07,520
the other was a judge

4400
03:03:09,910 --> 03:03:08,479
so

4401
03:03:11,510 --> 03:03:09,920
i mean

4402
03:03:13,990 --> 03:03:11,520
it's not like yeah this those are pretty

4403
03:03:15,830 --> 03:03:14,000
critical witnesses despite it but but i

4404
03:03:17,750 --> 03:03:15,840
have heard a lot of people sort of rip

4405
03:03:19,510 --> 03:03:17,760
apart glenn dennis as a witness in the

4406
03:03:21,910 --> 03:03:19,520
nurse story and things like that what do

4407
03:03:24,309 --> 03:03:21,920
you think that story

4408
03:03:26,550 --> 03:03:24,319
yes the uh we believe the part

4409
03:03:28,469 --> 03:03:26,560
we believe the part about

4410
03:03:30,389 --> 03:03:28,479
the campaigns the phone calls and the

4411
03:03:32,870 --> 03:03:30,399
caskets we believe that part the other

4412
03:03:35,429 --> 03:03:32,880
part about him going to the base

4413
03:03:38,710 --> 03:03:35,439
and running into a nurse friend

4414
03:03:41,750 --> 03:03:38,720
etc etc he lied to us about the name of

4415
03:03:43,349 --> 03:03:41,760
the nurse and we spent a good two years

4416
03:03:45,269 --> 03:03:43,359
trying to find her

4417
03:03:48,309 --> 03:03:45,279
and we couldn't find a nurse with the

4418
03:03:50,070 --> 03:03:48,319
name of naomi maria's self

4419
03:03:52,150 --> 03:03:50,080
and so we went to glenn glenn we can't

4420
03:03:54,469 --> 03:03:52,160
find it there's there's no more if we

4421
03:03:56,790 --> 03:03:54,479
can't find that nurse anywhere as ever

4422
03:03:59,510 --> 03:03:56,800
being in the army so well i i gave you i

4423
03:04:00,870 --> 03:03:59,520
gave you a phony name oh god thank you

4424
03:04:03,429 --> 03:04:00,880
oh it's just yeah

4425
03:04:05,110 --> 03:04:03,439
i just wasted all this time yeah we just

4426
03:04:08,870 --> 03:04:05,120
wasted two years on that and you're

4427
03:04:10,950 --> 03:04:08,880
telling us you lied to us so that part

4428
03:04:11,830 --> 03:04:10,960
of his story

4429
03:04:13,429 --> 03:04:11,840
is

4430
03:04:16,070 --> 03:04:13,439
we just

4431
03:04:18,070 --> 03:04:16,080
take that away well mr schmidt also you

4432
03:04:19,830 --> 03:04:18,080
talked about chain of custody so if we

4433
03:04:21,910 --> 03:04:19,840
if we do get into the chain of custody

4434
03:04:24,150 --> 03:04:21,920
of these bodies so

4435
03:04:26,870 --> 03:04:24,160
allegedly they called and asked about

4436
03:04:29,269 --> 03:04:26,880
child-sized coffins and then

4437
03:04:31,030 --> 03:04:29,279
the the bodies were then flown to where

4438
03:04:32,630 --> 03:04:31,040
right patterson right well they were

4439
03:04:34,309 --> 03:04:32,640
they were taken

4440
03:04:35,910 --> 03:04:34,319
to the base first

4441
03:04:37,269 --> 03:04:35,920
they were taken to the base like

4442
03:04:39,590 --> 03:04:37,279
everything else

4443
03:04:41,190 --> 03:04:39,600
when it first went to the base hanger

4444
03:04:41,990 --> 03:04:41,200
the big hanger there

4445
03:04:44,309 --> 03:04:42,000
uh

4446
03:04:46,230 --> 03:04:44,319
it's still there it's building 84 it's

4447
03:04:48,870 --> 03:04:46,240
still a working hanger

4448
03:04:51,910 --> 03:04:48,880
but back then it was hangar p is in paul

4449
03:04:53,830 --> 03:04:51,920
three and uh that's where everything

4450
03:04:55,910 --> 03:04:53,840
went including the bodies made their

4451
03:04:58,309 --> 03:04:55,920
first stop there before they were

4452
03:04:59,750 --> 03:04:58,319
transferred to the base hospital

4453
03:05:02,710 --> 03:04:59,760
excuse me

4454
03:05:04,950 --> 03:05:02,720
and then they were flown out in two

4455
03:05:05,750 --> 03:05:04,960
separate flights

4456
03:05:13,429 --> 03:05:05,760
to

4457
03:05:15,990 --> 03:05:13,439
then it was called right field

4458
03:05:18,389 --> 03:05:16,000
but those were the cadavers

4459
03:05:21,030 --> 03:05:18,399
we don't know how long the

4460
03:05:23,269 --> 03:05:21,040
live one we believe the live one stayed

4461
03:05:25,269 --> 03:05:23,279
on the base in roswell

4462
03:05:27,590 --> 03:05:25,279
oh yeah you got to tell you got to talk

4463
03:05:29,349 --> 03:05:27,600
about the live one because there's been

4464
03:05:30,550 --> 03:05:29,359
various reports that one of them was

4465
03:05:32,309 --> 03:05:30,560
alive

4466
03:05:34,070 --> 03:05:32,319
and this is where we get some of these

4467
03:05:35,750 --> 03:05:34,080
stories about the

4468
03:05:38,070 --> 03:05:35,760
alien being interviewed or

4469
03:05:40,309 --> 03:05:38,080
telepathically communicating with people

4470
03:05:42,070 --> 03:05:40,319
or they tried to like interrogate him

4471
03:05:44,230 --> 03:05:42,080
find out where he was from what he was

4472
03:05:45,830 --> 03:05:44,240
doing on earth because you can imagine

4473
03:05:47,429 --> 03:05:45,840
if you're in the army especially if

4474
03:05:49,269 --> 03:05:47,439
you're a high-ranking officer and you're

4475
03:05:50,550 --> 03:05:49,279
concerned about a threat

4476
03:05:52,389 --> 03:05:50,560
they would have interviewed him and

4477
03:05:54,550 --> 03:05:52,399
found out what what the hell were you

4478
03:05:57,830 --> 03:05:54,560
doing here on earth right is this is

4479
03:05:59,670 --> 03:05:57,840
this a recon for an invasion force or

4480
03:06:01,590 --> 03:05:59,680
something right can you talk about the

4481
03:06:03,750 --> 03:06:01,600
live one because this is a fascinating

4482
03:06:06,550 --> 03:06:03,760
part of the story okay

4483
03:06:08,550 --> 03:06:06,560
the live one was first seen like i said

4484
03:06:11,510 --> 03:06:08,560
dan dwyer

4485
03:06:13,750 --> 03:06:11,520
the roswell fireman saw the live one out

4486
03:06:16,070 --> 03:06:13,760
at the impact site

4487
03:06:18,710 --> 03:06:16,080
walking around

4488
03:06:20,870 --> 03:06:18,720
and his family after they learned what

4489
03:06:23,190 --> 03:06:20,880
it looked like they said well

4490
03:06:24,870 --> 03:06:23,200
did you talk to it did you talk to it

4491
03:06:26,870 --> 03:06:24,880
and he said yes

4492
03:06:28,790 --> 03:06:26,880
we talked to one another

4493
03:06:30,790 --> 03:06:28,800
but we didn't talk like we're talking

4494
03:06:32,950 --> 03:06:30,800
now with our mouths and you know our we

4495
03:06:35,750 --> 03:06:32,960
didn't talk like we talked

4496
03:06:38,550 --> 03:06:35,760
we talked to one another in our heads

4497
03:06:41,110 --> 03:06:38,560
like men like mental telepathy

4498
03:06:42,550 --> 03:06:41,120
and uh the uh

4499
03:06:44,870 --> 03:06:42,560
being

4500
03:06:47,830 --> 03:06:44,880
sensed that uh

4501
03:06:50,710 --> 03:06:47,840
that dan dwyer was concerned about it

4502
03:06:55,110 --> 03:06:50,720
and so what what it said to dan dwyer

4503
03:06:57,910 --> 03:06:55,120
mentally was don't worry about me

4504
03:07:00,469 --> 03:06:57,920
i accept my fate

4505
03:07:03,429 --> 03:07:00,479
my comrades are dead my ship is

4506
03:07:05,670 --> 03:07:03,439
destroyed there's not anything i can do

4507
03:07:07,910 --> 03:07:05,680
i i accept my fate

4508
03:07:10,710 --> 03:07:07,920
and that was that was all hit

4509
03:07:12,950 --> 03:07:10,720
was exchanged between dan dwyer and the

4510
03:07:15,670 --> 03:07:12,960
live one out at the site well

4511
03:07:17,830 --> 03:07:15,680
the uh the military then arrives and

4512
03:07:20,070 --> 03:07:17,840
takes the everything you know the the

4513
03:07:21,670 --> 03:07:20,080
bodies and the live one back back to the

4514
03:07:23,429 --> 03:07:21,680
base

4515
03:07:25,750 --> 03:07:23,439
so

4516
03:07:28,710 --> 03:07:25,760
uh

4517
03:07:31,510 --> 03:07:28,720
the the live one we believe remained at

4518
03:07:33,349 --> 03:07:31,520
the face for a period of time because we

4519
03:07:35,510 --> 03:07:33,359
have a witness or two

4520
03:07:38,870 --> 03:07:35,520
that saw it there

4521
03:07:40,469 --> 03:07:38,880
and we think it was kept uh for time at

4522
03:07:43,030 --> 03:07:40,479
the guard house

4523
03:07:44,630 --> 03:07:43,040
uh first at the hospital

4524
03:07:47,990 --> 03:07:44,640
once once it was

4525
03:07:49,990 --> 03:07:48,000
you know ambulatory it uh

4526
03:07:52,550 --> 03:07:50,000
they kept it at the guard house believe

4527
03:07:53,990 --> 03:07:52,560
it or not in military fatigues that

4528
03:07:56,630 --> 03:07:54,000
didn't fit

4529
03:07:57,670 --> 03:07:56,640
so we got that we got that story from a

4530
03:07:59,750 --> 03:07:57,680
lawyer

4531
03:08:02,230 --> 03:07:59,760
a a jag

4532
03:08:04,070 --> 03:08:02,240
that's interesting yeah that was from a

4533
03:08:06,150 --> 03:08:04,080
judge advocate lawyer

4534
03:08:08,389 --> 03:08:06,160
who was going to the guard has to visit

4535
03:08:10,710 --> 03:08:08,399
another prisoner and he

4536
03:08:13,110 --> 03:08:10,720
he looked into one of the cells and and

4537
03:08:16,070 --> 03:08:13,120
there's this thing with a big head

4538
03:08:17,750 --> 03:08:16,080
no hair and fatigues that it was way too

4539
03:08:19,269 --> 03:08:17,760
the fatigues were way too big for it he

4540
03:08:21,910 --> 03:08:19,279
said he'd never seen anything in his

4541
03:08:23,830 --> 03:08:21,920
life like that so we're guessing i admit

4542
03:08:26,150 --> 03:08:23,840
it's a speculation that that was the

4543
03:08:27,510 --> 03:08:26,160
live one that was still being kept at

4544
03:08:29,910 --> 03:08:27,520
the base

4545
03:08:31,429 --> 03:08:29,920
but eventually it wound up at right

4546
03:08:35,030 --> 03:08:31,439
field like the

4547
03:08:36,790 --> 03:08:35,040
like the others because

4548
03:08:40,309 --> 03:08:36,800
the following spring

4549
03:08:41,990 --> 03:08:40,319
now it's now april of 1948

4550
03:08:44,870 --> 03:08:42,000
it is seen

4551
03:08:47,190 --> 03:08:44,880
by a uh

4552
03:08:49,750 --> 03:08:47,200
air force uh

4553
03:08:51,190 --> 03:08:49,760
what do they call it uh war war class

4554
03:08:54,630 --> 03:08:51,200
they they're the

4555
03:08:56,230 --> 03:08:54,640
the uh officers who the air force deemed

4556
03:08:57,110 --> 03:08:56,240
were going to lead

4557
03:09:05,349 --> 03:08:57,120
the

4558
03:09:07,190 --> 03:09:05,359
call air war college glass of 1948

4559
03:09:08,630 --> 03:09:07,200
out of maxwell air force base in

4560
03:09:10,309 --> 03:09:08,640
louisiana

4561
03:09:13,269 --> 03:09:10,319
they were flown to

4562
03:09:15,030 --> 03:09:13,279
right field in april

4563
03:09:17,349 --> 03:09:15,040
of 1948

4564
03:09:20,309 --> 03:09:17,359
to their you know they're in training

4565
03:09:22,229 --> 03:09:20,319
how to run bases blah blah blah you know

4566
03:09:23,990 --> 03:09:22,239
administrate and

4567
03:09:26,150 --> 03:09:24,000
other things what do you think of this

4568
03:09:29,269 --> 03:09:26,160
what do you think of that so

4569
03:09:32,070 --> 03:09:29,279
they're led into this hangar

4570
03:09:34,229 --> 03:09:32,080
the classes led into this hangar one day

4571
03:09:35,910 --> 03:09:34,239
and uh

4572
03:09:37,349 --> 03:09:35,920
so they're standing around you know you

4573
03:09:39,110 --> 03:09:37,359
know what what are we supposed to do

4574
03:09:41,830 --> 03:09:39,120
here

4575
03:09:43,830 --> 03:09:41,840
and then they they wheel in a couple

4576
03:09:45,590 --> 03:09:43,840
girl a couple

4577
03:09:50,389 --> 03:09:45,600
tables

4578
03:09:52,070 --> 03:09:50,399
they said okay guys have at it tell us

4579
03:09:54,550 --> 03:09:52,080
what you think of this wreckage here and

4580
03:09:56,630 --> 03:09:54,560
so they they pick up this wreckage some

4581
03:10:00,309 --> 03:09:56,640
of it is stiff as a board they can't

4582
03:10:02,870 --> 03:10:00,319
it's all very thin like thin foil

4583
03:10:04,070 --> 03:10:02,880
other wreckage you can wad up and

4584
03:10:06,950 --> 03:10:04,080
let it go

4585
03:10:07,830 --> 03:10:06,960
and it just floats there just floats

4586
03:10:10,950 --> 03:10:07,840
there

4587
03:10:13,190 --> 03:10:10,960
you know what the hell is this stuff

4588
03:10:14,630 --> 03:10:13,200
and uh somebody said wait we've never

4589
03:10:15,670 --> 03:10:14,640
seen anything like this where did you

4590
03:10:19,429 --> 03:10:15,680
get it

4591
03:10:21,830 --> 03:10:19,439
and the the uh facilitator says well we

4592
03:10:23,990 --> 03:10:21,840
got it last summer from the a flying

4593
03:10:25,429 --> 03:10:24,000
saucer crash in new mexico that's what

4594
03:10:27,190 --> 03:10:25,439
he told them

4595
03:10:29,110 --> 03:10:27,200
it's not gonna have to even hurt there

4596
03:10:31,190 --> 03:10:29,120
and you have multiple witnesses to this

4597
03:10:32,630 --> 03:10:31,200
event right yes

4598
03:10:34,150 --> 03:10:32,640
yes

4599
03:10:36,790 --> 03:10:34,160
and um

4600
03:10:38,389 --> 03:10:36,800
so they're led into another room

4601
03:10:39,590 --> 03:10:38,399
if you know they're scratching you know

4602
03:10:42,309 --> 03:10:39,600
because some of the

4603
03:10:44,870 --> 03:10:42,319
some of the people hadn't heard

4604
03:10:46,870 --> 03:10:44,880
they were not all uh us airmen some were

4605
03:10:49,269 --> 03:10:46,880
from other countries

4606
03:10:51,510 --> 03:10:49,279
like australia you know

4607
03:10:54,790 --> 03:10:51,520
and so they're laid into another room

4608
03:10:56,870 --> 03:10:54,800
and they're it's four walls but

4609
03:10:59,590 --> 03:10:56,880
on the one wall is this large

4610
03:11:01,429 --> 03:10:59,600
rectangular mirror it's a two-way mirror

4611
03:11:03,750 --> 03:11:01,439
because if you're in the adjacent room

4612
03:11:05,510 --> 03:11:03,760
you look at this you see a

4613
03:11:07,590 --> 03:11:05,520
you just see a

4614
03:11:09,349 --> 03:11:07,600
i don't know a picture or something

4615
03:11:10,950 --> 03:11:09,359
blank but

4616
03:11:13,030 --> 03:11:10,960
you can see through

4617
03:11:15,590 --> 03:11:13,040
you know like your magic decoder ring

4618
03:11:17,510 --> 03:11:15,600
you know that uh

4619
03:11:19,910 --> 03:11:17,520
yeah so uh

4620
03:11:23,830 --> 03:11:19,920
we get this story from a

4621
03:11:26,150 --> 03:11:23,840
lieutenant marine air air force

4622
03:11:27,750 --> 03:11:26,160
a night fighter pilot in world war ii

4623
03:11:30,389 --> 03:11:27,760
named the uh

4624
03:11:32,710 --> 03:11:30,399
marion magruder

4625
03:11:35,429 --> 03:11:32,720
he's now lieutenant colonel the lowest

4626
03:11:37,830 --> 03:11:35,439
rank by the way in this air war college

4627
03:11:40,150 --> 03:11:37,840
class is lieutenant colonel because all

4628
03:11:42,070 --> 03:11:40,160
the way up to general

4629
03:11:44,150 --> 03:11:42,080
so there's some high-ranking officers

4630
03:11:46,710 --> 03:11:44,160
there yes yeah it's not there they're

4631
03:11:49,750 --> 03:11:46,720
not enlisted men no enlisted men no

4632
03:11:53,030 --> 03:11:49,760
lieutenants no majors no captains you

4633
03:11:54,229 --> 03:11:53,040
had to be a lieutenant colonel or hire

4634
03:11:55,750 --> 03:11:54,239
so

4635
03:11:59,429 --> 03:11:55,760
uh

4636
03:12:01,510 --> 03:11:59,439
so marion magruder is telling his son

4637
03:12:03,030 --> 03:12:01,520
he's got five sons their first names all

4638
03:12:05,110 --> 03:12:03,040
begin with m

4639
03:12:06,950 --> 03:12:05,120
so he's telling his sons

4640
03:12:09,830 --> 03:12:06,960
about this trip

4641
03:12:12,790 --> 03:12:09,840
because they had just witnessed

4642
03:12:16,309 --> 03:12:12,800
the uh moon landing and the moon landing

4643
03:12:17,590 --> 03:12:16,319
sort of was like a catharsis to a lot of

4644
03:12:19,830 --> 03:12:17,600
these people

4645
03:12:20,870 --> 03:12:19,840
who have been keeping the secret

4646
03:12:23,349 --> 03:12:20,880
secret

4647
03:12:25,110 --> 03:12:23,359
yeah with the moon landing it it had an

4648
03:12:26,790 --> 03:12:25,120
effect on a number of them in the world

4649
03:12:29,750 --> 03:12:26,800
they started talking

4650
03:12:31,269 --> 03:12:29,760
uh about this and marion magruder was

4651
03:12:33,110 --> 03:12:31,279
one of them

4652
03:12:35,670 --> 03:12:33,120
so uh

4653
03:12:38,389 --> 03:12:35,680
he says well i we went into this room

4654
03:12:40,070 --> 03:12:38,399
and there was this there was this uh

4655
03:12:42,070 --> 03:12:40,080
see-through mirror so we all looked

4656
03:12:46,389 --> 03:12:42,080
through it i looked through it

4657
03:12:50,389 --> 03:12:46,399
and here was this strange being

4658
03:12:52,790 --> 03:12:50,399
it had it very about 40 pounds

4659
03:12:54,710 --> 03:12:52,800
it looks squiggly he said how would you

4660
03:12:56,710 --> 03:12:54,720
describe it looks squiggly that's how he

4661
03:12:59,429 --> 03:12:56,720
described it

4662
03:13:01,030 --> 03:12:59,439
and it had a large head of frail body

4663
03:13:03,510 --> 03:13:01,040
long arms

4664
03:13:05,030 --> 03:13:03,520
long spindly legs

4665
03:13:07,030 --> 03:13:05,040
uh

4666
03:13:11,110 --> 03:13:07,040
well

4667
03:13:14,950 --> 03:13:11,120
was it

4668
03:13:17,429 --> 03:13:14,960
standing or no it wasn't standing there

4669
03:13:18,950 --> 03:13:17,439
it wasn't doing push-ups it wasn't

4670
03:13:20,710 --> 03:13:18,960
sitting down it wasn't doing the

4671
03:13:22,710 --> 03:13:20,720
macarena

4672
03:13:24,630 --> 03:13:22,720
it was just standing it it was just

4673
03:13:26,389 --> 03:13:24,640
standing there

4674
03:13:28,710 --> 03:13:26,399
and uh

4675
03:13:30,790 --> 03:13:28,720
magruder said

4676
03:13:33,590 --> 03:13:30,800
all of a sudden

4677
03:13:37,349 --> 03:13:33,600
i had a feeling of great empathy came

4678
03:13:39,349 --> 03:13:37,359
over me between me and this creature

4679
03:13:42,469 --> 03:13:39,359
he says i we weren't we weren't talking

4680
03:13:43,269 --> 03:13:42,479
to but this great feeling of empathy

4681
03:13:44,550 --> 03:13:43,279
came

4682
03:13:46,550 --> 03:13:44,560
over me

4683
03:13:47,670 --> 03:13:46,560
and i was seeing its human-like

4684
03:13:53,190 --> 03:13:47,680
qualities

4685
03:13:55,269 --> 03:13:53,200
and that's all that's all he said about

4686
03:13:56,870 --> 03:13:55,279
it he didn't say they talked or anything

4687
03:14:00,150 --> 03:13:56,880
but he just felt

4688
03:14:02,710 --> 03:14:00,160
its human qualities of this creature

4689
03:14:05,910 --> 03:14:02,720
and uh so they said well what happened

4690
03:14:07,030 --> 03:14:05,920
to it and he said they killed it

4691
03:14:11,190 --> 03:14:07,040
well

4692
03:14:13,830 --> 03:14:11,200
there was another

4693
03:14:16,070 --> 03:14:13,840
witness the son of a photographer back

4694
03:14:19,110 --> 03:14:16,080
in 47

4695
03:14:21,990 --> 03:14:19,120
the son jack rodden his father had a top

4696
03:14:24,070 --> 03:14:22,000
secret clearance he could take pictures

4697
03:14:25,910 --> 03:14:24,080
on the base

4698
03:14:27,349 --> 03:14:25,920
of whatever

4699
03:14:29,990 --> 03:14:27,359
and uh

4700
03:14:31,990 --> 03:14:30,000
the son jack jr said uh

4701
03:14:34,070 --> 03:14:32,000
he knew his father was out there at this

4702
03:14:36,309 --> 03:14:34,080
time he said what about the what about

4703
03:14:37,590 --> 03:14:36,319
the aliens what about the what about the

4704
03:14:39,750 --> 03:14:37,600
live one because he knew about the

4705
03:14:41,030 --> 03:14:39,760
library he said so jack senior says they

4706
03:14:44,070 --> 03:14:41,040
killed it

4707
03:14:46,229 --> 03:14:44,080
and so jack jr do you mean they they

4708
03:14:49,030 --> 03:14:46,239
killed the story they killed the

4709
03:14:51,190 --> 03:14:49,040
they killed the alien they killed

4710
03:14:52,389 --> 03:14:51,200
what and he just said they killed it

4711
03:14:53,990 --> 03:14:52,399
well

4712
03:14:55,750 --> 03:14:54,000
it's not that they lined it up if you

4713
03:14:57,910 --> 03:14:55,760
saw the movie there's a you know the

4714
03:14:59,750 --> 03:14:57,920
saint valentine's day massacre it's not

4715
03:15:01,269 --> 03:14:59,760
like they got it yeah they didn't yeah

4716
03:15:03,030 --> 03:15:01,279
they didn't uh they didn't get an

4717
03:15:05,269 --> 03:15:03,040
electric chair or something it wasn't

4718
03:15:08,229 --> 03:15:05,279
that at all

4719
03:15:10,309 --> 03:15:08,239
it was that uh like you said

4720
03:15:12,229 --> 03:15:10,319
they wanted to learn it and it only

4721
03:15:14,950 --> 03:15:12,239
stands a reason that they wanted to

4722
03:15:17,110 --> 03:15:14,960
learn as much as they could from it

4723
03:15:19,429 --> 03:15:17,120
and certainly they were you know they

4724
03:15:20,870 --> 03:15:19,439
were no doubt they were talking mentally

4725
03:15:23,190 --> 03:15:20,880
to it they were trying to learn as much

4726
03:15:25,269 --> 03:15:23,200
as they could they were doing various

4727
03:15:27,269 --> 03:15:25,279
tests on it

4728
03:15:28,790 --> 03:15:27,279
how does it cope with this or that or

4729
03:15:32,389 --> 03:15:28,800
you know whatever

4730
03:15:34,790 --> 03:15:32,399
and during one of the tests it died

4731
03:15:35,750 --> 03:15:34,800
and that's that's how inside we don't

4732
03:15:41,349 --> 03:15:35,760
know

4733
03:15:45,429 --> 03:15:41,359
but uh there's several stories

4734
03:15:47,830 --> 03:15:45,439
that it uh lived until 1952

4735
03:15:49,750 --> 03:15:47,840
there were stories that it liked uh i uh

4736
03:15:52,469 --> 03:15:49,760
strawberry ice cream well that's him i

4737
03:15:54,870 --> 03:15:52,479
remember that from ufo live yeah

4738
03:15:56,309 --> 03:15:54,880
that old special that's impossible

4739
03:15:59,429 --> 03:15:56,319
because it's

4740
03:16:03,349 --> 03:15:59,439
its mouth just opened into an uh

4741
03:16:04,870 --> 03:16:03,359
uh orifice uh a cavity there was no

4742
03:16:07,750 --> 03:16:04,880
there was no

4743
03:16:09,990 --> 03:16:07,760
digestive system the mouth just was like

4744
03:16:12,229 --> 03:16:10,000
a little cavity that's all yeah i've

4745
03:16:13,429 --> 03:16:12,239
heard it described that way

4746
03:16:15,190 --> 03:16:13,439
you know one of the interesting things

4747
03:16:16,550 --> 03:16:15,200
if you've got a live alien i mean you

4748
03:16:18,870 --> 03:16:16,560
got to figure out like what is its

4749
03:16:21,510 --> 03:16:18,880
source of nutrition what does it need as

4750
03:16:23,590 --> 03:16:21,520
far as atmospheric conditions to for for

4751
03:16:25,110 --> 03:16:23,600
its you know for its health and it could

4752
03:16:27,510 --> 03:16:25,120
be it could be anything it could be all

4753
03:16:28,950 --> 03:16:27,520
the way apparently apparently it could

4754
03:16:30,630 --> 03:16:28,960
survive in

4755
03:16:32,550 --> 03:16:30,640
our air

4756
03:16:35,349 --> 03:16:32,560
because there's no

4757
03:16:37,990 --> 03:16:35,359
testimony about a uh

4758
03:16:39,750 --> 03:16:38,000
breathing device of any sort

4759
03:16:42,870 --> 03:16:39,760
but we don't know how it got its

4760
03:16:45,349 --> 03:16:42,880
nutrition we don't we do not know that

4761
03:16:46,469 --> 03:16:45,359
but it did it's not from strawberry ice

4762
03:16:47,510 --> 03:16:46,479
cream

4763
03:16:49,830 --> 03:16:47,520
yeah i thought that was kind of

4764
03:16:51,510 --> 03:16:49,840
ridiculous and that ufo live special i

4765
03:16:54,710 --> 03:16:51,520
remember that and thinking well that's a

4766
03:16:55,830 --> 03:16:54,720
weird sort of tidbit to add right so i

4767
03:16:57,750 --> 03:16:55,840
guess

4768
03:17:00,469 --> 03:16:57,760
there goes the the story of the live

4769
03:17:02,229 --> 03:17:00,479
alien which is to me that's i've heard

4770
03:17:04,309 --> 03:17:02,239
all these different and read these

4771
03:17:06,630 --> 03:17:04,319
different eyewitness testimonies to this

4772
03:17:08,309 --> 03:17:06,640
live alien it's pretty interesting

4773
03:17:10,550 --> 03:17:08,319
but what do you think

4774
03:17:12,870 --> 03:17:10,560
that so the the dead bodies go to wright

4775
03:17:14,630 --> 03:17:12,880
patterson do you have any insight into

4776
03:17:16,469 --> 03:17:14,640
what happened to them were they

4777
03:17:18,790 --> 03:17:16,479
autopsied were they

4778
03:17:20,710 --> 03:17:18,800
yes they were taken apart or what what

4779
03:17:22,790 --> 03:17:20,720
did they do with the dead body we have

4780
03:17:25,429 --> 03:17:22,800
multiple witnesses

4781
03:17:27,510 --> 03:17:25,439
both civilian and military that of

4782
03:17:29,429 --> 03:17:27,520
course it was auto the dead ones were

4783
03:17:31,190 --> 03:17:29,439
autopsied

4784
03:17:33,670 --> 03:17:31,200
apparently one or two of them were not

4785
03:17:35,670 --> 03:17:33,680
in such great shape but uh

4786
03:17:37,750 --> 03:17:35,680
there were four dead ones originally and

4787
03:17:39,030 --> 03:17:37,760
plus the live one when and whenever that

4788
03:17:41,349 --> 03:17:39,040
died

4789
03:17:44,070 --> 03:17:41,359
but they were autopsy

4790
03:17:46,389 --> 03:17:44,080
and uh

4791
03:17:48,309 --> 03:17:46,399
originally they were kept in the what

4792
03:17:49,269 --> 03:17:48,319
they called the ice house

4793
03:17:51,429 --> 03:17:49,279
uh

4794
03:17:53,750 --> 03:17:51,439
you know it was right next to you've

4795
03:17:55,990 --> 03:17:53,760
heard about hangar 18 right yeah i was

4796
03:17:59,750 --> 03:17:56,000
really building 18 but yeah yeah well

4797
03:18:02,229 --> 03:17:59,760
hangar 18 was really hangar 23

4798
03:18:04,950 --> 03:18:02,239
but because there were like uh

4799
03:18:06,790 --> 03:18:04,960
eight or nine

4800
03:18:08,790 --> 03:18:06,800
buildings that they call it the hang

4801
03:18:12,710 --> 03:18:08,800
they called it the uh

4802
03:18:15,030 --> 03:18:12,720
the building 18 complex there were like

4803
03:18:17,910 --> 03:18:15,040
seven eight nine buildings all

4804
03:18:18,870 --> 03:18:17,920
called 18 a through 18

4805
03:18:21,990 --> 03:18:18,880
g

4806
03:18:23,590 --> 03:18:22,000
18 to a 18 b 18 c

4807
03:18:25,830 --> 03:18:23,600
up to g

4808
03:18:27,670 --> 03:18:25,840
but there was only one hanger in this

4809
03:18:31,269 --> 03:18:27,680
complex

4810
03:18:33,030 --> 03:18:31,279
and it was hangar 23 well everybody just

4811
03:18:34,950 --> 03:18:33,040
referred to it because it was right in

4812
03:18:37,590 --> 03:18:34,960
the middle of this complex

4813
03:18:40,469 --> 03:18:37,600
as hangar 18

4814
03:18:43,429 --> 03:18:40,479
and that's where during world war ii

4815
03:18:45,670 --> 03:18:43,439
all of the back engineering and testing

4816
03:18:48,229 --> 03:18:45,680
aircraft testing took place

4817
03:18:49,910 --> 03:18:48,239
so it was our technology right so it was

4818
03:18:51,990 --> 03:18:49,920
only natural that that's where the

4819
03:18:53,910 --> 03:18:52,000
wreckage would come

4820
03:18:55,750 --> 03:18:53,920
to uh try to yeah there's there's

4821
03:18:59,429 --> 03:18:55,760
nothing more foreign than alien

4822
03:19:01,830 --> 03:18:59,439
technology so yeah it doesn't make sense

4823
03:19:03,510 --> 03:19:01,840
for those that don't know uh mr carrie

4824
03:19:05,429 --> 03:19:03,520
and don schmidt also wrote an amazing

4825
03:19:07,190 --> 03:19:05,439
book one of my favorites ufo secrets

4826
03:19:09,030 --> 03:19:07,200
inside ray patterson

4827
03:19:10,950 --> 03:19:09,040
eyewitness accounts from the real area

4828
03:19:12,870 --> 03:19:10,960
51 which

4829
03:19:14,309 --> 03:19:12,880
you know uh there's so many stories

4830
03:19:16,150 --> 03:19:14,319
about wright patterson having these

4831
03:19:18,950 --> 03:19:16,160
tunnels underground and having these

4832
03:19:21,030 --> 03:19:18,960
secret facilities to study foreign

4833
03:19:22,950 --> 03:19:21,040
technology and and that's where people

4834
03:19:25,990 --> 03:19:22,960
say the aliens are kept and that the

4835
03:19:28,550 --> 03:19:26,000
wreckage went and it was studied they

4836
03:19:30,630 --> 03:19:28,560
attempted to back engineer some of it do

4837
03:19:32,790 --> 03:19:30,640
you think what do you think of these

4838
03:19:34,790 --> 03:19:32,800
various stories of people who claim to

4839
03:19:36,950 --> 03:19:34,800
have roswell debris

4840
03:19:39,349 --> 03:19:36,960
because those stories never seem to pan

4841
03:19:41,590 --> 03:19:39,359
out under scientific scrutiny once the

4842
03:19:44,550 --> 03:19:41,600
stuff is tested it's like well it's it's

4843
03:19:46,790 --> 03:19:44,560
uh it's aluminum you know it's nothing

4844
03:19:48,309 --> 03:19:46,800
it's nothing out of this world

4845
03:19:51,349 --> 03:19:48,319
well so far

4846
03:19:54,229 --> 03:19:51,359
as far as i know there's never been any

4847
03:19:57,110 --> 03:19:54,239
uh pieces of wreckage that have come

4848
03:19:58,389 --> 03:19:57,120
forward that have passed muster

4849
03:20:00,550 --> 03:19:58,399
uh

4850
03:20:04,630 --> 03:20:00,560
some years ago the

4851
03:20:07,110 --> 03:20:04,640
ufo museum in roswell

4852
03:20:09,190 --> 03:20:07,120
dedicated to the roswell incident

4853
03:20:11,630 --> 03:20:09,200
offered a million dollars

4854
03:20:14,070 --> 03:20:11,640
to anyone who could produce an

4855
03:20:15,510 --> 03:20:14,080
incontrovertible piece of physical

4856
03:20:18,790 --> 03:20:15,520
wreckage

4857
03:20:21,190 --> 03:20:18,800
from rot from the roswell crash and

4858
03:20:25,510 --> 03:20:21,200
some tried but the one turned out to be

4859
03:20:30,950 --> 03:20:28,710
another turned out to be a little

4860
03:20:32,630 --> 03:20:30,960
medallion that was actually sold in the

4861
03:20:35,429 --> 03:20:32,640
gift shop

4862
03:20:37,110 --> 03:20:35,439
of the museum oh boy well you can't

4863
03:20:39,110 --> 03:20:37,120
blame him for trying that's a million

4864
03:20:41,510 --> 03:20:39,120
reasons to come up with some alien

4865
03:20:42,630 --> 03:20:41,520
wreckage right but

4866
03:20:45,030 --> 03:20:42,640
because some of these things are

4867
03:20:46,469 --> 03:20:45,040
resurfacing again we've had arts parts

4868
03:20:47,750 --> 03:20:46,479
and uh

4869
03:20:49,429 --> 03:20:47,760
i'm not even gonna mention her but

4870
03:20:52,550 --> 03:20:49,439
there's a researcher that pushed those

4871
03:20:54,710 --> 03:20:52,560
for years and then uh scientists that

4872
03:20:56,309 --> 03:20:54,720
she hired to do the analysis said no

4873
03:20:58,229 --> 03:20:56,319
it's normal earthly metal she didn't

4874
03:21:00,070 --> 03:20:58,239
like that so she hired new guys that

4875
03:21:01,750 --> 03:21:00,080
would say that there was something weird

4876
03:21:04,550 --> 03:21:01,760
about the metals and then she sells them

4877
03:21:06,870 --> 03:21:04,560
to ttsa and now they're pushing them as

4878
03:21:08,550 --> 03:21:06,880
possibly alien materials but we never

4879
03:21:11,670 --> 03:21:08,560
get to the proof of these people making

4880
03:21:13,910 --> 03:21:11,680
these claims and that's disappointing

4881
03:21:16,550 --> 03:21:13,920
yes oh it is it is it's actually the

4882
03:21:18,870 --> 03:21:16,560
most disappointing thing about the case

4883
03:21:20,070 --> 03:21:18,880
because there were so many little pieces

4884
03:21:22,710 --> 03:21:20,080
of wreckage

4885
03:21:24,630 --> 03:21:22,720
and the ranchers always uh

4886
03:21:27,190 --> 03:21:24,640
whatever crashes out in the desert the

4887
03:21:29,830 --> 03:21:27,200
ranchers and their children all always

4888
03:21:31,910 --> 03:21:29,840
get to it first to pick up first you

4889
03:21:33,830 --> 03:21:31,920
know to see if anybody's hurt but then

4890
03:21:35,590 --> 03:21:33,840
to pick up little pieces of the wreckage

4891
03:21:37,510 --> 03:21:35,600
and we suspect that that's what happened

4892
03:21:38,550 --> 03:21:37,520
here because the ranchers and their

4893
03:21:40,469 --> 03:21:38,560
children

4894
03:21:43,190 --> 03:21:40,479
got to the site first

4895
03:21:44,950 --> 03:21:43,200
and uh we've heard about so and so

4896
03:21:47,190 --> 03:21:44,960
having a piece in fact some people

4897
03:21:50,830 --> 03:21:47,200
admitted to having a piece

4898
03:21:52,550 --> 03:21:50,840
but over the years it it became lost

4899
03:21:54,710 --> 03:21:52,560
somewhere yeah

4900
03:21:56,790 --> 03:21:54,720
yeah so this this is the tantalizing

4901
03:21:58,950 --> 03:21:56,800
part like you could have had the proof

4902
03:22:01,190 --> 03:21:58,960
and you lost it in your attic or

4903
03:22:03,429 --> 03:22:01,200
something right or your garage and you

4904
03:22:04,229 --> 03:22:03,439
can't find it or you moved and threw it

4905
03:22:06,150 --> 03:22:04,239
out

4906
03:22:08,229 --> 03:22:06,160
you know that's the tantalizing part to

4907
03:22:09,670 --> 03:22:08,239
me listen i i don't want to keep you too

4908
03:22:11,590 --> 03:22:09,680
much longer but if you don't mind i'm

4909
03:22:13,590 --> 03:22:11,600
sure that we have some uh questions in

4910
03:22:15,750 --> 03:22:13,600
our live chat uh

4911
03:22:17,990 --> 03:22:15,760
uh if you don't mind somebody asked uh

4912
03:22:19,910 --> 03:22:18,000
or do you believe that any of the uh who

4913
03:22:21,670 --> 03:22:19,920
was courtney shane asked do you believe

4914
03:22:23,990 --> 03:22:21,680
that any of the

4915
03:22:26,389 --> 03:22:24,000
pictures of aliens floating around on

4916
03:22:28,550 --> 03:22:26,399
the internet are genuine or related to

4917
03:22:30,870 --> 03:22:28,560
the roswell event or are they all yeah

4918
03:22:32,150 --> 03:22:30,880
are they all phony

4919
03:22:35,830 --> 03:22:32,160
do you believe any of them are there

4920
03:22:39,030 --> 03:22:35,840
mccoy yeah that's a good question uh

4921
03:22:41,269 --> 03:22:39,040
i don't believe uh i've never seen

4922
03:22:44,389 --> 03:22:41,279
a picture of

4923
03:22:47,590 --> 03:22:44,399
a roswell alien that i consider that was

4924
03:22:49,110 --> 03:22:47,600
genuine so i i would say

4925
03:22:50,790 --> 03:22:49,120
right now

4926
03:22:53,590 --> 03:22:50,800
there are none

4927
03:22:55,269 --> 03:22:53,600
uh that are out there

4928
03:22:56,950 --> 03:22:55,279
that are genuine

4929
03:22:59,030 --> 03:22:56,960
yeah and people are always sending me

4930
03:23:01,030 --> 03:22:59,040
pictures and swearing like no this one's

4931
03:23:03,030 --> 03:23:01,040
real and then if you do a search a

4932
03:23:04,870 --> 03:23:03,040
google limit search you find out like

4933
03:23:06,389 --> 03:23:04,880
somebody just sent me one on twitter or

4934
03:23:07,590 --> 03:23:06,399
replied on twitter and then it turned

4935
03:23:09,910 --> 03:23:07,600
out to be from

4936
03:23:11,269 --> 03:23:09,920
from a movie and somebody cropped out

4937
03:23:13,269 --> 03:23:11,279
you know what i mean like they just

4938
03:23:15,590 --> 03:23:13,279
cropped the alien and put it in and then

4939
03:23:17,429 --> 03:23:15,600
we've got people claiming oh here's a

4940
03:23:19,910 --> 03:23:17,439
picture of a gray alien taken on the

4941
03:23:22,150 --> 03:23:19,920
moon and that one turned out i busted

4942
03:23:25,590 --> 03:23:22,160
them it turned out to be from a 2005

4943
03:23:27,269 --> 03:23:25,600
video game cover of a video game area 51

4944
03:23:28,950 --> 03:23:27,279
where you run around shooting aliens and

4945
03:23:29,750 --> 03:23:28,960
the alien was on the cover of the video

4946
03:23:31,510 --> 03:23:29,760
game

4947
03:23:33,269 --> 03:23:31,520
and people put that behind a pay wall

4948
03:23:35,030 --> 03:23:33,279
and we're charging people three dollars

4949
03:23:37,110 --> 03:23:35,040
to to see the picture

4950
03:23:40,469 --> 03:23:37,120
that they never they never seem to pan

4951
03:23:43,269 --> 03:23:40,479
out right i've never seen a uh

4952
03:23:46,150 --> 03:23:43,279
verifiable piece of wreckage or a

4953
03:23:47,429 --> 03:23:46,160
verifiable genuine uh

4954
03:23:49,590 --> 03:23:47,439
photograph

4955
03:23:51,269 --> 03:23:49,600
although we are looking for both

4956
03:23:54,630 --> 03:23:51,279
and uh here's the thing about the

4957
03:23:55,910 --> 03:23:54,640
wreckage uh stephen is that

4958
03:23:58,309 --> 03:23:55,920
the wreckage

4959
03:24:00,070 --> 03:23:58,319
some of them have been put forth by

4960
03:24:01,830 --> 03:24:00,080
other investigators

4961
03:24:03,830 --> 03:24:01,840
and they say hell here's a piece we're

4962
03:24:05,830 --> 03:24:03,840
going to send it out for analysis well

4963
03:24:08,389 --> 03:24:05,840
that's the last you hear about it you

4964
03:24:09,269 --> 03:24:08,399
never hear what the analysis was

4965
03:24:11,269 --> 03:24:09,279
and

4966
03:24:13,590 --> 03:24:11,279
so that's one of the problems

4967
03:24:15,910 --> 03:24:13,600
we're looking for actually a piece of

4968
03:24:18,389 --> 03:24:15,920
the memory metal that's what we're

4969
03:24:20,550 --> 03:24:18,399
looking for because you don't have to

4970
03:24:22,950 --> 03:24:20,560
send that out

4971
03:24:24,790 --> 03:24:22,960
yeah if it's if it if it reacts like

4972
03:24:26,389 --> 03:24:24,800
people have described you're going to

4973
03:24:28,950 --> 03:24:26,399
know right away that that's something

4974
03:24:30,950 --> 03:24:28,960
out of this world yes so that

4975
03:24:34,070 --> 03:24:30,960
that's our holy grail we call it our

4976
03:24:36,950 --> 03:24:34,080
holy grail of roswell is the piece of

4977
03:24:38,790 --> 03:24:36,960
the memory metal and we know there are

4978
03:24:40,870 --> 03:24:38,800
some pieces out there

4979
03:24:43,349 --> 03:24:40,880
but so far the people have not come

4980
03:24:45,110 --> 03:24:43,359
forth with them uh

4981
03:24:47,750 --> 03:24:45,120
it's just it's a shame

4982
03:24:48,790 --> 03:24:47,760
so there's another fella here's another

4983
03:24:52,070 --> 03:24:48,800
one

4984
03:24:53,030 --> 03:24:52,080
and this phil has been on several

4985
03:24:55,190 --> 03:24:53,040
uh

4986
03:24:57,670 --> 03:24:55,200
cable shows

4987
03:25:00,070 --> 03:24:57,680
uh he goes out to the debris field site

4988
03:25:01,510 --> 03:25:00,080
with a geiger counter

4989
03:25:03,349 --> 03:25:01,520
and he's been finding these little

4990
03:25:05,429 --> 03:25:03,359
pieces

4991
03:25:06,389 --> 03:25:05,439
and they're aluminum

4992
03:25:09,990 --> 03:25:06,399
you know

4993
03:25:11,349 --> 03:25:10,000
they're aluminum and uh so he's had them

4994
03:25:13,190 --> 03:25:11,359
tested

4995
03:25:16,710 --> 03:25:13,200
on several shows and they always come

4996
03:25:20,550 --> 03:25:18,070
aluminum

4997
03:25:22,630 --> 03:25:20,560
and uh well

4998
03:25:24,150 --> 03:25:22,640
it's just it

4999
03:25:26,229 --> 03:25:24,160
i don't know

5000
03:25:27,830 --> 03:25:26,239
that's what you get so far that's what

5001
03:25:30,950 --> 03:25:27,840
you get so far

5002
03:25:33,670 --> 03:25:30,960
uh we do know that

5003
03:25:37,269 --> 03:25:33,680
the most of the pieces were were palm

5004
03:25:39,190 --> 03:25:37,279
sized they were they were palm sized uh

5005
03:25:42,469 --> 03:25:39,200
there were some larger pieces but the

5006
03:25:44,710 --> 03:25:42,479
overwhelming majority of the debris

5007
03:25:45,830 --> 03:25:44,720
because this explosion just shattered

5008
03:25:47,830 --> 03:25:45,840
the ship

5009
03:25:50,229 --> 03:25:47,840
except for that inner cabin

5010
03:25:53,590 --> 03:25:50,239
and uh the other thing about it steven

5011
03:25:55,910 --> 03:25:53,600
there was no moving part on it

5012
03:25:58,710 --> 03:25:55,920
we got that from a witness a military

5013
03:26:01,910 --> 03:25:58,720
witness who was in the hangar who saw

5014
03:26:04,389 --> 03:26:01,920
all the wreckage there was no moving

5015
03:26:05,429 --> 03:26:04,399
part on it

5016
03:26:07,510 --> 03:26:05,439
so

5017
03:26:09,429 --> 03:26:07,520
yeah that's again that's pretty i've

5018
03:26:11,750 --> 03:26:09,439
heard that various descriptions too that

5019
03:26:14,550 --> 03:26:11,760
there was no rivets there was nothing

5020
03:26:16,070 --> 03:26:14,560
that you could no power source engine

5021
03:26:18,550 --> 03:26:16,080
anything that you could identify as

5022
03:26:20,389 --> 03:26:18,560
earthly technology or methodology for

5023
03:26:22,309 --> 03:26:20,399
building aircraft

5024
03:26:24,950 --> 03:26:22,319
so how did it get from

5025
03:26:26,790 --> 03:26:24,960
there to here to here

5026
03:26:29,750 --> 03:26:26,800
how did how did it how did they do it

5027
03:26:33,590 --> 03:26:29,760
without a moving part and that's uh

5028
03:26:35,030 --> 03:26:33,600
we've had some testimony recently

5029
03:26:37,590 --> 03:26:35,040
about because

5030
03:26:39,190 --> 03:26:37,600
you know our mandate was to

5031
03:26:41,910 --> 03:26:39,200
is to

5032
03:26:44,229 --> 03:26:41,920
decide the case whether was it mundane

5033
03:26:45,830 --> 03:26:44,239
or was it extraterrestrial you know that

5034
03:26:47,190 --> 03:26:45,840
that's been our

5035
03:26:49,349 --> 03:26:47,200
mandate

5036
03:26:51,510 --> 03:26:49,359
and uh we don't do a lot of whole a

5037
03:26:53,670 --> 03:26:51,520
whole lot of thinking about um

5038
03:26:55,590 --> 03:26:53,680
where did they come from why are they

5039
03:26:57,750 --> 03:26:55,600
here you know that that's for other

5040
03:26:59,750 --> 03:26:57,760
people to figure out you know

5041
03:27:02,229 --> 03:26:59,760
so but uh well yeah that would get into

5042
03:27:04,389 --> 03:27:02,239
just pure speculation i often thought

5043
03:27:07,110 --> 03:27:04,399
that it was anthropological

5044
03:27:09,750 --> 03:27:07,120
you know like if we if we find some

5045
03:27:12,070 --> 03:27:09,760
primitive if we humans find some

5046
03:27:18,550 --> 03:27:12,080
primitive tribe that's been untouched by

5047
03:27:22,790 --> 03:27:21,030
the thing is i have been i was leading

5048
03:27:25,190 --> 03:27:22,800
up to that uh

5049
03:27:27,349 --> 03:27:25,200
i have been their own knowledge of you

5050
03:27:29,110 --> 03:27:27,359
know

5051
03:27:31,429 --> 03:27:29,120
i have been doing some thinking about

5052
03:27:34,150 --> 03:27:31,439
this you know how do they get from there

5053
03:27:35,349 --> 03:27:34,160
to here if there's no moving part and

5054
03:27:36,710 --> 03:27:35,359
obviously

5055
03:27:38,870 --> 03:27:36,720
it's not from

5056
03:27:41,110 --> 03:27:38,880
our own solar system they're not they're

5057
03:27:43,349 --> 03:27:41,120
not from our rolling solar system so

5058
03:27:45,910 --> 03:27:43,359
they're from another solar system

5059
03:27:46,950 --> 03:27:45,920
most likely in the milky way galaxy

5060
03:27:50,150 --> 03:27:46,960
right

5061
03:27:52,550 --> 03:27:50,160
uh even though there's a hundred million

5062
03:27:54,630 --> 03:27:52,560
galaxies in the universe they're most

5063
03:27:57,269 --> 03:27:54,640
likely from the uh

5064
03:28:01,510 --> 03:27:57,279
the milky way but even there

5065
03:28:03,670 --> 03:28:01,520
the distances are so astronomically

5066
03:28:05,910 --> 03:28:03,680
long

5067
03:28:07,590 --> 03:28:05,920
that you can't get from there to here

5068
03:28:09,030 --> 03:28:07,600
using

5069
03:28:11,349 --> 03:28:09,040
uh

5070
03:28:13,510 --> 03:28:11,359
motors or or

5071
03:28:14,790 --> 03:28:13,520
things that we we currently have so how

5072
03:28:15,590 --> 03:28:14,800
did they do it

5073
03:28:19,670 --> 03:28:15,600
so

5074
03:28:22,870 --> 03:28:19,680
uh

5075
03:28:25,269 --> 03:28:22,880
bent space spin space to where it's only

5076
03:28:27,269 --> 03:28:25,279
a short leap

5077
03:28:29,429 --> 03:28:27,279
because the long distances

5078
03:28:32,469 --> 03:28:29,439
in the universe there you just can't do

5079
03:28:34,870 --> 03:28:32,479
it so they must have somehow

5080
03:28:36,070 --> 03:28:34,880
solved the space

5081
03:28:37,510 --> 03:28:36,080
time

5082
03:28:38,790 --> 03:28:37,520
continuum

5083
03:28:40,150 --> 03:28:38,800
right

5084
03:28:45,510 --> 03:28:40,160
so uh

5085
03:28:48,469 --> 03:28:47,429
and called what is that called it's

5086
03:28:50,630 --> 03:28:48,479
called

5087
03:28:53,269 --> 03:28:50,640
roswell the ultimate

5088
03:28:57,269 --> 03:28:53,279
cold case closed

5089
03:28:58,790 --> 03:28:57,279
and uh we are where we we are we're

5090
03:29:01,110 --> 03:28:58,800
every time i think it's closed we're

5091
03:29:02,790 --> 03:29:01,120
working on another book actually we're

5092
03:29:05,510 --> 03:29:02,800
working on two more there's one going to

5093
03:29:07,510 --> 03:29:05,520
come out this year and one going to

5094
03:29:09,910 --> 03:29:07,520
come out next year

5095
03:29:12,150 --> 03:29:09,920
but uh

5096
03:29:13,910 --> 03:29:12,160
thinking about how they were able to get

5097
03:29:16,710 --> 03:29:13,920
here from there

5098
03:29:17,590 --> 03:29:16,720
we had the testimony

5099
03:29:18,830 --> 03:29:17,600
of

5100
03:29:20,389 --> 03:29:18,840
uh

5101
03:29:21,429 --> 03:29:20,399
one

5102
03:29:24,070 --> 03:29:21,439
uh

5103
03:29:27,030 --> 03:29:24,080
scientist he was a naval scientist a

5104
03:29:29,269 --> 03:29:27,040
commander named george hoover

5105
03:29:31,110 --> 03:29:29,279
who worked with wernher von braun

5106
03:29:33,990 --> 03:29:31,120
in the rocket program

5107
03:29:36,630 --> 03:29:34,000
and they were also part of the uh

5108
03:29:39,590 --> 03:29:36,640
roswell analysis

5109
03:29:43,590 --> 03:29:39,600
you know the whole roswell picture

5110
03:29:48,070 --> 03:29:46,070
when he was interviewed he said

5111
03:29:50,550 --> 03:29:48,080
roswell

5112
03:29:52,469 --> 03:29:50,560
was a case of visitors from somewhere

5113
03:29:54,070 --> 03:29:52,479
else

5114
03:29:55,510 --> 03:29:54,080
now what did he mean by that he said

5115
03:30:00,150 --> 03:29:55,520
well

5116
03:30:04,790 --> 03:30:03,750
as they were extra temporal

5117
03:30:06,870 --> 03:30:04,800
i.e

5118
03:30:09,429 --> 03:30:06,880
time travelers time travel yeah i've

5119
03:30:10,950 --> 03:30:09,439
heard that theory or interdimensional

5120
03:30:13,110 --> 03:30:10,960
and he said

5121
03:30:14,550 --> 03:30:13,120
they were potentially

5122
03:30:17,429 --> 03:30:14,560
us

5123
03:30:19,750 --> 03:30:17,439
from a future earth

5124
03:30:21,110 --> 03:30:19,760
now coming from uncle harry over a

5125
03:30:22,630 --> 03:30:21,120
couple drinks

5126
03:30:24,710 --> 03:30:22,640
i'm just going to take that it's going

5127
03:30:25,510 --> 03:30:24,720
to go in one ear and out the other you

5128
03:30:28,229 --> 03:30:25,520
know

5129
03:30:29,910 --> 03:30:28,239
but coming from a fella who worked with

5130
03:30:33,030 --> 03:30:29,920
werner von braun and all the other

5131
03:30:36,070 --> 03:30:33,040
scientists on the rocket program

5132
03:30:40,630 --> 03:30:37,349
and the uh

5133
03:30:43,510 --> 03:30:40,640
roger case itself to say that you have

5134
03:30:45,510 --> 03:30:43,520
to give that some consideration

5135
03:30:47,030 --> 03:30:45,520
yeah it's pretty incredible

5136
03:30:49,030 --> 03:30:47,040
here's a great question from the

5137
03:30:51,590 --> 03:30:49,040
audience uh philip larry asked what do

5138
03:30:53,510 --> 03:30:51,600
you think of dr jacqueline's work

5139
03:30:55,750 --> 03:30:53,520
uh to have materials from other crash

5140
03:30:57,190 --> 03:30:55,760
sites tested at private laboratories in

5141
03:30:58,550 --> 03:30:57,200
silicon valley

5142
03:30:59,830 --> 03:30:58,560
have you followed that and what do you

5143
03:31:02,469 --> 03:30:59,840
think about

5144
03:31:04,630 --> 03:31:02,479
mr ballet i have not followed that but

5145
03:31:07,349 --> 03:31:04,640
i'm saying

5146
03:31:08,630 --> 03:31:07,359
make sure you get it back

5147
03:31:09,670 --> 03:31:08,640
because

5148
03:31:12,309 --> 03:31:09,680
yeah

5149
03:31:14,870 --> 03:31:12,319
it hasn't had things have a habit if it

5150
03:31:17,990 --> 03:31:14,880
turns out to be something you never see

5151
03:31:20,389 --> 03:31:18,000
them again so i think it's a good idea

5152
03:31:22,630 --> 03:31:20,399
uh the name jacques valet is known

5153
03:31:25,110 --> 03:31:22,640
worldwide i've never met him

5154
03:31:27,510 --> 03:31:25,120
but uh he has some interesting theories

5155
03:31:30,150 --> 03:31:27,520
if he has if he has some

5156
03:31:31,110 --> 03:31:30,160
uh material that he wants tested go for

5157
03:31:36,550 --> 03:31:31,120
it

5158
03:31:38,870 --> 03:31:36,560
let's hear what the results are

5159
03:31:41,190 --> 03:31:38,880
yeah yeah well he's got again he's got

5160
03:31:42,309 --> 03:31:41,200
some tantalizing sort of results about

5161
03:31:44,950 --> 03:31:42,319
they're they're always talking about

5162
03:31:46,710 --> 03:31:44,960
isotopic ratios which means

5163
03:31:49,110 --> 03:31:46,720
that metal couldn't have come from our

5164
03:31:51,510 --> 03:31:49,120
solar system but then to me a lot of

5165
03:31:53,349 --> 03:31:51,520
that stuff could be metal parts and

5166
03:31:55,510 --> 03:31:53,359
meteor rights right you know because

5167
03:31:57,349 --> 03:31:55,520
they're just showing you this metal blob

5168
03:31:58,870 --> 03:31:57,359
that doesn't you know we gotta have a

5169
03:32:01,190 --> 03:31:58,880
memory metal

5170
03:32:03,349 --> 03:32:01,200
because you don't need it

5171
03:32:05,429 --> 03:32:03,359
you don't need to send that away

5172
03:32:07,110 --> 03:32:05,439
to get tested you can you can put it

5173
03:32:10,150 --> 03:32:07,120
through its paces

5174
03:32:12,469 --> 03:32:10,160
we don't have anything like that uh

5175
03:32:15,269 --> 03:32:12,479
we've got something they tried to to

5176
03:32:17,510 --> 03:32:15,279
create uh like it but it's it's nowhere

5177
03:32:19,750 --> 03:32:17,520
near as good as the original

5178
03:32:21,429 --> 03:32:19,760
okay paul cargo is are there actual

5179
03:32:24,070 --> 03:32:21,439
video recordings of any lieutenant

5180
03:32:26,389 --> 03:32:24,080
colonels uh stating they saw live aliens

5181
03:32:28,229 --> 03:32:26,399
and uap wreckage while in training

5182
03:32:29,670 --> 03:32:28,239
well they're quoted in your books though

5183
03:32:31,910 --> 03:32:29,680
right i don't know that there's video

5184
03:32:33,830 --> 03:32:31,920
recording yeah no recordings

5185
03:32:35,269 --> 03:32:33,840
no we're not aware of any live

5186
03:32:38,229 --> 03:32:35,279
recordings

5187
03:32:40,150 --> 03:32:38,239
of uh whether they recorded their

5188
03:32:41,670 --> 03:32:40,160
observations i don't know

5189
03:32:43,830 --> 03:32:41,680
but the the

5190
03:32:46,790 --> 03:32:43,840
live recordings were never mentioned so

5191
03:32:49,110 --> 03:32:46,800
we have to assume that there weren't any

5192
03:32:51,349 --> 03:32:49,120
certainly not any that we could uh have

5193
03:32:53,110 --> 03:32:51,359
access to you know i want to make sure

5194
03:32:55,510 --> 03:32:53,120
that i take a moment just to plug your

5195
03:32:58,469 --> 03:32:55,520
books if you just put tom carrey's name

5196
03:33:00,630 --> 03:32:58,479
into amazon you'll get treated to a

5197
03:33:03,269 --> 03:33:00,640
whole bunch of amazing books and i gotta

5198
03:33:05,110 --> 03:33:03,279
say that everyone the first one i read

5199
03:33:07,190 --> 03:33:05,120
was witness to roswell and then i

5200
03:33:08,950 --> 03:33:07,200
instantly went and ordered more

5201
03:33:11,830 --> 03:33:08,960
because every one of them seems to me to

5202
03:33:13,590 --> 03:33:11,840
be well researched and you know uh

5203
03:33:15,349 --> 03:33:13,600
i gotta say that i disagree with cal

5204
03:33:17,830 --> 03:33:15,359
court's assertion that all these people

5205
03:33:20,150 --> 03:33:17,840
that you and schmidt talk to for 30

5206
03:33:22,070 --> 03:33:20,160
years for decades all just made this

5207
03:33:23,990 --> 03:33:22,080
stuff up it doesn't seem

5208
03:33:25,910 --> 03:33:24,000
you know it just doesn't seem likely to

5209
03:33:27,429 --> 03:33:25,920
me especially the military people my

5210
03:33:30,070 --> 03:33:27,439
father was in the military and he was

5211
03:33:31,670 --> 03:33:30,080
just like a no-nonsense kind of guy all

5212
03:33:34,229 --> 03:33:31,680
his military friends they just weren't

5213
03:33:35,190 --> 03:33:34,239
bullshitters that's the plainest way to

5214
03:33:37,510 --> 03:33:35,200
put it

5215
03:33:39,190 --> 03:33:37,520
so we've had these very high ranking

5216
03:33:41,269 --> 03:33:39,200
military officials

5217
03:33:43,590 --> 03:33:41,279
basically admit that there was an alien

5218
03:33:45,670 --> 03:33:43,600
crash landing and there was bodies and

5219
03:33:48,870 --> 03:33:45,680
more so

5220
03:33:51,429 --> 03:33:48,880
back to the side of the alien hypothesis

5221
03:33:54,790 --> 03:33:51,439
we have too many witnesses

5222
03:33:56,309 --> 03:33:54,800
you have to you have to um

5223
03:33:58,790 --> 03:33:56,319
you know to think that way you have to

5224
03:34:00,870 --> 03:33:58,800
think that back in 1947 they all got

5225
03:34:01,750 --> 03:34:00,880
together and said okay look

5226
03:34:03,590 --> 03:34:01,760
uh

5227
03:34:04,710 --> 03:34:03,600
decades from now people are going to

5228
03:34:07,030 --> 03:34:04,720
come uh

5229
03:34:09,349 --> 03:34:07,040
come calling and uh let's get our

5230
03:34:11,830 --> 03:34:09,359
stories uh let's really cook up some

5231
03:34:14,389 --> 03:34:11,840
stories yeah you know

5232
03:34:16,389 --> 03:34:14,399
that's ridiculous that's right i i agree

5233
03:34:17,750 --> 03:34:16,399
with you and mortimer james asks we

5234
03:34:19,269 --> 03:34:17,760
touch on this briefly but what do you

5235
03:34:21,349 --> 03:34:19,279
think of the pieces they were called

5236
03:34:24,229 --> 03:34:21,359
arts parts that art bell got and linda

5237
03:34:27,429 --> 03:34:24,239
molten hale was pushing his alien pieces

5238
03:34:29,030 --> 03:34:27,439
of wreckage that's that's the uh

5239
03:34:31,190 --> 03:34:29,040
that's one of the things i'm talking

5240
03:34:33,750 --> 03:34:31,200
about the arts parts

5241
03:34:36,309 --> 03:34:33,760
i saw them i mean i didn't handle them i

5242
03:34:38,070 --> 03:34:36,319
saw pictures of it and i'm thinking

5243
03:34:39,670 --> 03:34:38,080
what the hell is this that that doesn't

5244
03:34:43,030 --> 03:34:39,680
look like anything to me could be

5245
03:34:45,510 --> 03:34:43,040
anything yeah yeah and uh

5246
03:34:47,910 --> 03:34:45,520
so i assume they when they got them

5247
03:34:49,590 --> 03:34:47,920
tested but i have no idea

5248
03:34:51,750 --> 03:34:49,600
what the results of the tests are and

5249
03:34:53,349 --> 03:34:51,760
this is what i'm talking about what yeah

5250
03:34:55,269 --> 03:34:53,359
it's kind of like a back and forth

5251
03:34:57,269 --> 03:34:55,279
though because the first person that

5252
03:34:59,269 --> 03:34:57,279
tested them said these are ordinary

5253
03:35:01,190 --> 03:34:59,279
earthly metals here's here's the lab

5254
03:35:03,750 --> 03:35:01,200
reports and linda mulhell didn't like

5255
03:35:05,349 --> 03:35:03,760
that report so she hired new guys that

5256
03:35:07,429 --> 03:35:05,359
would go out on a limb and say that they

5257
03:35:09,910 --> 03:35:07,439
were more than earthly materials

5258
03:35:11,670 --> 03:35:09,920
and then she sells them to ttsa who is

5259
03:35:14,229 --> 03:35:11,680
now claiming that they have alien

5260
03:35:16,469 --> 03:35:14,239
wreckage or may have alien wreckage

5261
03:35:18,790 --> 03:35:16,479
but we never get the lab result it's

5262
03:35:19,750 --> 03:35:18,800
very easy to put them in a spectrometer

5263
03:35:21,510 --> 03:35:19,760
like that

5264
03:35:23,670 --> 03:35:21,520
it's very easy put a piece in the

5265
03:35:25,750 --> 03:35:23,680
spectrometer it'll tell you what the

5266
03:35:28,070 --> 03:35:25,760
elemental makeup of the material is what

5267
03:35:30,229 --> 03:35:28,080
the isotopic ratios are if it's aluminum

5268
03:35:32,630 --> 03:35:30,239
titanium whatever it is the spectrometer

5269
03:35:35,190 --> 03:35:32,640
will tell you it doesn't take 20 years

5270
03:35:37,269 --> 03:35:35,200
to test the material right and we have

5271
03:35:39,590 --> 03:35:37,279
all this talk about meta materials

5272
03:35:43,429 --> 03:35:39,600
metamaterials are not alien they're just

5273
03:35:46,070 --> 03:35:43,439
as a very specialized newer form of new

5274
03:35:47,590 --> 03:35:46,080
kind of material right

5275
03:35:49,510 --> 03:35:47,600
so i have a real problem with people

5276
03:35:52,309 --> 03:35:49,520
that go and

5277
03:35:54,229 --> 03:35:52,319
make try to make money or documentaries

5278
03:35:56,950 --> 03:35:54,239
or television shows claiming they have

5279
03:36:00,070 --> 03:35:56,960
this alien material but we never get the

5280
03:36:01,910 --> 03:36:00,080
lab results never you never get them

5281
03:36:04,550 --> 03:36:01,920
yeah so i wanted to say to make sure

5282
03:36:06,630 --> 03:36:04,560
that i say you can you can search tom

5283
03:36:08,150 --> 03:36:06,640
cary on amazon and all your books and

5284
03:36:11,349 --> 03:36:08,160
you say you're working on a new book

5285
03:36:13,990 --> 03:36:11,359
right yes it's called touched by roswell

5286
03:36:16,150 --> 03:36:14,000
it's about famous people the rich and

5287
03:36:18,790 --> 03:36:16,160
famous you know actors actors and

5288
03:36:21,110 --> 03:36:18,800
actresses and rich

5289
03:36:22,309 --> 03:36:21,120
famous people that somewhere in their

5290
03:36:24,950 --> 03:36:22,319
lives

5291
03:36:26,630 --> 03:36:24,960
their life in roswell crossed

5292
03:36:28,229 --> 03:36:26,640
do you have the story of jackie gleason

5293
03:36:30,150 --> 03:36:28,239
did you know that story yeah that's one

5294
03:36:32,950 --> 03:36:30,160
of them oh wow that's one of my favorite

5295
03:36:34,790 --> 03:36:32,960
stories because i i not only have i

5296
03:36:37,670 --> 03:36:34,800
heard that in in

5297
03:36:39,750 --> 03:36:37,680
you know media but i i heard that from

5298
03:36:42,469 --> 03:36:39,760
somebody that

5299
03:36:44,950 --> 03:36:42,479
sort of worked with or for him who told

5300
03:36:49,110 --> 03:36:44,960
me that jackie gleason to his death was

5301
03:36:50,630 --> 03:36:49,120
convinced that he saw an alien body yes

5302
03:36:53,670 --> 03:36:50,640
yeah that's great

5303
03:36:54,550 --> 03:36:53,680
richard with richard nixon yes

5304
03:36:57,349 --> 03:36:54,560
yeah

5305
03:37:00,150 --> 03:36:57,359
it's like you know there's a

5306
03:37:01,510 --> 03:37:00,160
it's famous people who who

5307
03:37:04,630 --> 03:37:01,520
in some way

5308
03:37:07,990 --> 03:37:04,640
their lives crossed with the roswell

5309
03:37:09,590 --> 03:37:08,000
incident and uh

5310
03:37:12,710 --> 03:37:09,600
we're working on it right now and it

5311
03:37:14,469 --> 03:37:12,720
should be out uh mid-year this year

5312
03:37:16,710 --> 03:37:14,479
well good for you and i one more

5313
03:37:18,710 --> 03:37:16,720
question uh and we'll try to wrap it up

5314
03:37:19,830 --> 03:37:18,720
here i'm not sure how to ask this so

5315
03:37:21,670 --> 03:37:19,840
i'll just say

5316
03:37:23,670 --> 03:37:21,680
has tom carrey ever had a conversation

5317
03:37:25,349 --> 03:37:23,680
with former senate majority leader harry

5318
03:37:32,150 --> 03:37:25,359
reid

5319
03:37:33,830 --> 03:37:32,160
about uh ufos uh

5320
03:37:37,429 --> 03:37:33,840
uh he has

5321
03:37:39,110 --> 03:37:37,439
worked i guess he got uh

5322
03:37:42,070 --> 03:37:39,120
bigelow

5323
03:37:45,429 --> 03:37:42,080
uh aerospace involved

5324
03:37:48,950 --> 03:37:45,439
and uh thanks to harry reid they're uh

5325
03:37:51,910 --> 03:37:48,960
the i believe the u.s defense department

5326
03:37:55,349 --> 03:37:51,920
as we speak is supposed to have a report

5327
03:37:56,070 --> 03:37:55,359
yeah within the next uh 120 days it was

5328
03:37:58,309 --> 03:37:56,080
what

5329
03:38:00,469 --> 03:37:58,319
we're down to about 120 days i can't

5330
03:38:04,309 --> 03:38:00,479
wait to read that yes yes

5331
03:38:05,670 --> 03:38:04,319
and uh here's the thing about that

5332
03:38:07,190 --> 03:38:05,680
is uh

5333
03:38:08,630 --> 03:38:07,200
how do you know that

5334
03:38:11,030 --> 03:38:08,640
what they tell you

5335
03:38:13,349 --> 03:38:11,040
is what is going to be the truth yeah

5336
03:38:15,389 --> 03:38:13,359
because we have this roswell case closed

5337
03:38:18,550 --> 03:38:15,399
uh report that is just filled with

5338
03:38:21,110 --> 03:38:18,560
inaccuracies and garbage information

5339
03:38:23,429 --> 03:38:21,120
yeah ridiculous explanations like all

5340
03:38:25,510 --> 03:38:23,439
those bodies were anthropomorphic

5341
03:38:28,469 --> 03:38:25,520
dummies that were dropped 10 years after

5342
03:38:30,710 --> 03:38:28,479
the roswell event people just you know

5343
03:38:33,429 --> 03:38:30,720
you know time dilation or something they

5344
03:38:35,830 --> 03:38:33,439
forgot when they saw those things yeah

5345
03:38:38,710 --> 03:38:35,840
it just i don't trust anything i have

5346
03:38:40,630 --> 03:38:38,720
two rules now it used to be that my my

5347
03:38:42,550 --> 03:38:40,640
rule was i never trust anything the

5348
03:38:44,389 --> 03:38:42,560
government tells me without doing my own

5349
03:38:46,309 --> 03:38:44,399
due diligence and research

5350
03:38:48,550 --> 03:38:46,319
and now i've added to that i don't trust

5351
03:38:50,389 --> 03:38:48,560
anything the mainstream media tells me

5352
03:38:52,389 --> 03:38:50,399
without doing my own due diligence and

5353
03:38:54,550 --> 03:38:52,399
research into those things

5354
03:38:55,990 --> 03:38:54,560
so after listen i'm going to answer this

5355
03:38:57,750 --> 03:38:56,000
because this is important and then i'm

5356
03:39:00,229 --> 03:38:57,760
going to solo you for this because i

5357
03:39:01,910 --> 03:39:00,239
want you to give i want you to spend

5358
03:39:04,389 --> 03:39:01,920
just a few minutes and

5359
03:39:06,229 --> 03:39:04,399
you've been studying this thing longer

5360
03:39:08,790 --> 03:39:06,239
than most people almost longer than i've

5361
03:39:11,990 --> 03:39:08,800
been alive right so

5362
03:39:14,389 --> 03:39:12,000
uh i want to know really what what is

5363
03:39:16,229 --> 03:39:14,399
your bottom line what is your

5364
03:39:19,110 --> 03:39:16,239
what is your

5365
03:39:21,510 --> 03:39:19,120
take after talking all these witnesses

5366
03:39:23,110 --> 03:39:21,520
what actually happened at roswell you've

5367
03:39:25,670 --> 03:39:23,120
studied this thing longer than most

5368
03:39:26,950 --> 03:39:25,680
people i want to hear you give us your

5369
03:39:31,670 --> 03:39:26,960
best case

5370
03:39:33,110 --> 03:39:31,680
what really crashed at roswell well

5371
03:39:35,269 --> 03:39:33,120
uh

5372
03:39:39,269 --> 03:39:35,279
it's of course it's

5373
03:39:41,590 --> 03:39:39,279
based on witness testimony

5374
03:39:43,990 --> 03:39:41,600
observing the witnesses and weighing

5375
03:39:46,950 --> 03:39:44,000
what they say

5376
03:39:49,750 --> 03:39:46,960
and uh

5377
03:39:51,110 --> 03:39:49,760
there's no doubt in my mind

5378
03:39:55,269 --> 03:39:51,120
that

5379
03:40:00,950 --> 03:39:55,279
on the evening of july the second

5380
03:40:00,960 --> 03:40:03,590
blew up

5381
03:40:08,469 --> 03:40:06,469
during a thunder and lightning storm

5382
03:40:11,349 --> 03:40:08,479
in

5383
03:40:13,349 --> 03:40:11,359
central high new mexico

5384
03:40:15,830 --> 03:40:13,359
scattering debris

5385
03:40:18,630 --> 03:40:15,840
across the sheep pasture

5386
03:40:22,229 --> 03:40:18,640
there were five occupants four of them

5387
03:40:23,269 --> 03:40:22,239
met their fate one was still alive

5388
03:40:25,990 --> 03:40:23,279
they were

5389
03:40:28,229 --> 03:40:26,000
recovered to first to the roswell army

5390
03:40:31,670 --> 03:40:28,239
airfield

5391
03:40:36,389 --> 03:40:33,269
headline went out that they had

5392
03:40:37,429 --> 03:40:36,399
recovered a flying saucer

5393
03:40:40,229 --> 03:40:37,439
it the

5394
03:40:42,389 --> 03:40:40,239
the headline was changed within hours to

5395
03:40:44,229 --> 03:40:42,399
that it was a weather balloon

5396
03:40:46,070 --> 03:40:44,239
but it was in fact they were right the

5397
03:40:48,389 --> 03:40:46,080
first time

5398
03:40:50,469 --> 03:40:48,399
a flying saucer crashed we don't know

5399
03:40:52,070 --> 03:40:50,479
where it was from

5400
03:40:53,910 --> 03:40:52,080
we know we know

5401
03:40:56,229 --> 03:40:53,920
how many occupants there were it was

5402
03:40:57,670 --> 03:40:56,239
ultimately taken to re taken to right

5403
03:40:59,990 --> 03:40:57,680
field

5404
03:41:02,070 --> 03:41:00,000
in dayton ohio

5405
03:41:03,670 --> 03:41:02,080
that's where it was analyzed that's

5406
03:41:05,429 --> 03:41:03,680
where the bodies went that's where the

5407
03:41:06,870 --> 03:41:05,439
live one went

5408
03:41:08,790 --> 03:41:06,880
uh they

5409
03:41:11,510 --> 03:41:08,800
did tests on the live one and certainly

5410
03:41:13,510 --> 03:41:11,520
they they did

5411
03:41:16,790 --> 03:41:13,520
autopsies of the dead ones they were

5412
03:41:18,469 --> 03:41:16,800
kept there for years

5413
03:41:20,870 --> 03:41:18,479
and uh we believe

5414
03:41:21,910 --> 03:41:20,880
based on testimony that the stuff was

5415
03:41:26,550 --> 03:41:21,920
moved

5416
03:41:29,510 --> 03:41:26,560
in the early 1980s to area 51 and

5417
03:41:32,389 --> 03:41:29,520
utah in nevada

5418
03:41:35,750 --> 03:41:32,399
kept there for a number of years

5419
03:41:38,630 --> 03:41:35,760
and according to witness testimony

5420
03:41:40,550 --> 03:41:38,640
we believe the five roswell aliens are

5421
03:41:44,790 --> 03:41:40,560
now

5422
03:41:46,950 --> 03:41:44,800
residing in dugway utah

5423
03:41:49,830 --> 03:41:46,960
and the wreckage the physical records

5424
03:41:52,309 --> 03:41:49,840
now is in private

5425
03:41:53,990 --> 03:41:52,319
hands by that i don't mean uncle harry

5426
03:41:56,469 --> 03:41:54,000
or aunt lucy

5427
03:41:58,229 --> 03:41:56,479
i mean in private companies that do

5428
03:42:00,550 --> 03:41:58,239
business with the federal government

5429
03:42:01,590 --> 03:42:00,560
that's where the wreckage is residing

5430
03:42:03,670 --> 03:42:01,600
today

5431
03:42:05,830 --> 03:42:03,680
they're still testing it

5432
03:42:08,150 --> 03:42:05,840
and the reason that it's in private

5433
03:42:11,110 --> 03:42:08,160
hands is that they don't have to answer

5434
03:42:12,870 --> 03:42:11,120
uh freedom of information requests like

5435
03:42:14,389 --> 03:42:12,880
uh

5436
03:42:16,550 --> 03:42:14,399
you know if you're a government agency

5437
03:42:19,110 --> 03:42:16,560
you're subject to foia requests well

5438
03:42:22,950 --> 03:42:19,120
private companies are not

5439
03:42:25,510 --> 03:42:22,960
so yes it was uh now in my mind i'm

5440
03:42:26,389 --> 03:42:25,520
starting to lean towards

5441
03:42:27,670 --> 03:42:26,399
uh

5442
03:42:36,870 --> 03:42:27,680
extra

5443
03:42:39,670 --> 03:42:36,880
a fence on that right now so because of

5444
03:42:40,630 --> 03:42:39,680
the quality of the testimony regarding

5445
03:42:45,110 --> 03:42:40,640
the

5446
03:42:47,670 --> 03:42:45,120
and uh

5447
03:42:49,429 --> 03:42:47,680
so that's where i'm at yes it was uh

5448
03:42:52,710 --> 03:42:49,439
of unknown origin it was either

5449
03:42:54,309 --> 03:42:52,720
extraterrestrial or extra temporal it

5450
03:42:56,550 --> 03:42:54,319
was covered up

5451
03:42:58,389 --> 03:42:56,560
it's still covered up

5452
03:43:00,870 --> 03:42:58,399
i don't know

5453
03:43:03,510 --> 03:43:00,880
what's going to take place with this 180

5454
03:43:06,229 --> 03:43:03,520
this report that's due out now in 100 i

5455
03:43:08,150 --> 03:43:06,239
guess it's mid-june and june what that's

5456
03:43:09,110 --> 03:43:08,160
going to say whether it's going to

5457
03:43:11,030 --> 03:43:09,120
address

5458
03:43:12,870 --> 03:43:11,040
roswell at all

5459
03:43:15,910 --> 03:43:12,880
because there were

5460
03:43:18,870 --> 03:43:15,920
human rights violations perpetrated upon

5461
03:43:20,870 --> 03:43:18,880
civilians to cover that up

5462
03:43:22,950 --> 03:43:20,880
uh that where that

5463
03:43:25,269 --> 03:43:22,960
they certainly

5464
03:43:27,670 --> 03:43:25,279
would not be happy to talk about but uh

5465
03:43:29,110 --> 03:43:27,680
we know that uh death threats were

5466
03:43:31,670 --> 03:43:29,120
issued

5467
03:43:35,189 --> 03:43:31,680
to cover it up and uh

5468
03:43:37,750 --> 03:43:35,199
a lot of bad stuff went on but uh that's

5469
03:43:39,349 --> 03:43:37,760
what i believe and whether it will ever

5470
03:43:41,110 --> 03:43:39,359
come out i don't know

5471
03:43:42,710 --> 03:43:41,120
but i can tell you this but i can't give

5472
03:43:44,309 --> 03:43:42,720
you the answer i know i know where the

5473
03:43:45,830 --> 03:43:44,319
wreckage is today i know where the

5474
03:43:46,950 --> 03:43:45,840
bodies are

5475
03:43:48,229 --> 03:43:46,960
but

5476
03:43:51,349 --> 03:43:48,239
we're not going to release that

5477
03:43:55,030 --> 03:43:51,359
information until uh

5478
03:43:57,590 --> 03:43:55,040
that uh book we're having we have a

5479
03:43:59,110 --> 03:43:57,600
uh a uh

5480
03:44:02,550 --> 03:43:59,120
issue a

5481
03:44:03,590 --> 03:44:02,560
our book witness to roswell was our best

5482
03:44:06,550 --> 03:44:03,600
seller

5483
03:44:07,710 --> 03:44:06,560
so in 20

5484
03:44:12,150 --> 03:44:07,720
let's see

5485
03:44:13,990 --> 03:44:12,160
2022 will be 75 years believe it or not

5486
03:44:15,750 --> 03:44:14,000
since the

5487
03:44:18,070 --> 03:44:15,760
event

5488
03:44:20,950 --> 03:44:18,080
so in 2022 we're coming out with the

5489
03:44:23,750 --> 03:44:20,960
75th anniversary issue

5490
03:44:25,510 --> 03:44:23,760
of witness to roswell

5491
03:44:27,510 --> 03:44:25,520
we're going to have new information in

5492
03:44:29,830 --> 03:44:27,520
there and certainly we will have the

5493
03:44:31,349 --> 03:44:29,840
information as to where we know that the

5494
03:44:32,309 --> 03:44:31,359
wreckage is

5495
03:44:34,389 --> 03:44:32,319
uh

5496
03:44:36,229 --> 03:44:34,399
where it's at where the bodies are and

5497
03:44:38,070 --> 03:44:36,239
and what tests they're doing on the

5498
03:44:40,870 --> 03:44:38,080
wreckage so

5499
03:44:42,309 --> 03:44:40,880
that's that's what i believe

5500
03:44:43,830 --> 03:44:42,319
wow

5501
03:44:45,750 --> 03:44:43,840
it's been such a pleasure to talk to you

5502
03:44:47,349 --> 03:44:45,760
haven't read so many of your books i

5503
03:44:49,429 --> 03:44:47,359
want to thank you so much i'm sorry we

5504
03:44:50,710 --> 03:44:49,439
went a little over time i think uh you

5505
03:44:52,229 --> 03:44:50,720
know i could talk to you for another

5506
03:44:54,070 --> 03:44:52,239
three hours

5507
03:44:55,510 --> 03:44:54,080
but i'm gonna have to let you go i hope

5508
03:44:58,070 --> 03:44:55,520
that you don't come back

5509
03:45:00,229 --> 03:44:58,080
we are we might have a few more people

5510
03:45:01,830 --> 03:45:00,239
including mr schmidt uh i thought it'd

5511
03:45:03,670 --> 03:45:01,840
be best just to interview you guys

5512
03:45:05,429 --> 03:45:03,680
separately because i know you're a team

5513
03:45:07,750 --> 03:45:05,439
but i thought you'd each have your own

5514
03:45:08,950 --> 03:45:07,760
sort of perspective about things and and

5515
03:45:10,389 --> 03:45:08,960
i'd rather

5516
03:45:12,870 --> 03:45:10,399
interview you separately so we're gonna

5517
03:45:15,269 --> 03:45:12,880
have him and maybe a few other people i

5518
03:45:17,510 --> 03:45:15,279
did want to ask you uh just briefly

5519
03:45:20,229 --> 03:45:17,520
before you go though mr bosley walter

5520
03:45:22,710 --> 03:45:20,239
bosley has a pretty interesting idea

5521
03:45:24,229 --> 03:45:22,720
respect but it's mostly speculation

5522
03:45:27,189 --> 03:45:24,239
i've never heard that name before i

5523
03:45:29,030 --> 03:45:27,199
don't know who he is okay well his his

5524
03:45:32,389 --> 03:45:29,040
take on the roswell event was that it

5525
03:45:35,189 --> 03:45:32,399
wasn't alien and it wasn't that it was

5526
03:45:37,670 --> 03:45:35,199
uh sort of like a uh

5527
03:45:40,229 --> 03:45:37,680
test flight rocket test flights

5528
03:45:43,830 --> 03:45:40,239
early space rocket test flights what do

5529
03:45:48,229 --> 03:45:46,150
are we almost done

5530
03:45:50,150 --> 03:45:48,239
yeah we're done we're done okay all

5531
03:45:52,229 --> 03:45:50,160
right i'm sorry that

5532
03:45:54,550 --> 03:45:52,239
well what what is that base storm what i

5533
03:45:56,309 --> 03:45:54,560
mean what is that based on i think just

5534
03:45:59,670 --> 03:45:56,319
on project paperclip and some of the

5535
03:46:02,870 --> 03:45:59,680
early tests with the v2 oh no no no no

5536
03:46:05,830 --> 03:46:02,880
i'm sorry if the germans had ufos flying

5537
03:46:06,870 --> 03:46:05,840
sources we'd be speaking german now

5538
03:46:10,150 --> 03:46:06,880
and uh

5539
03:46:13,349 --> 03:46:12,469
that is so that is so ridiculous i'm

5540
03:46:15,510 --> 03:46:13,359
sorry

5541
03:46:17,910 --> 03:46:15,520
okay well you're we're free to disagree

5542
03:46:19,590 --> 03:46:17,920
here i appreciate your perspective i'm

5543
03:46:21,189 --> 03:46:19,600
gonna let you go and then i'm gonna wrap

5544
03:46:23,030 --> 03:46:21,199
up the show i want to thank you so much

5545
03:46:25,110 --> 03:46:23,040
it's been it's really been an honor and

5546
03:46:27,269 --> 03:46:25,120
a privilege my mother said if i can't

5547
03:46:28,870 --> 03:46:27,279
speak nice of somebody

5548
03:46:31,269 --> 03:46:28,880
my mom said the same thing don't say

5549
03:46:33,030 --> 03:46:31,279
anything at all exactly all right well

5550
03:46:35,030 --> 03:46:33,040
i'm gonna toss you out of here now i

5551
03:46:37,429 --> 03:46:35,040
appreciate your time very much everybody

5552
03:46:39,510 --> 03:46:37,439
listen if you want to hear more if you

5553
03:46:42,469 --> 03:46:39,520
want to read more go to amazon just put

5554
03:46:44,790 --> 03:46:42,479
in tom carrier or don schmidt into the

5555
03:46:46,389 --> 03:46:44,800
search box and you'll find a whole bunch

5556
03:46:48,150 --> 03:46:46,399
of great books every book that i've

5557
03:46:49,670 --> 03:46:48,160
gotten from him i thoroughly enjoyed i

5558
03:46:51,429 --> 03:46:49,680
want to get some more

5559
03:46:53,830 --> 03:46:51,439
so thanks very much for your time mr

5560
03:46:56,150 --> 03:46:53,840
carrie my pleasure stephen you have a

5561
03:46:58,150 --> 03:46:56,160
great evening okay great thanks mr

5562
03:47:00,469 --> 03:46:58,160
carrie bye-bye

5563
03:47:03,590 --> 03:47:00,479
all right well there you go friends uh

5564
03:47:06,710 --> 03:47:03,600
we are continuing in this revisiting

5565
03:47:08,950 --> 03:47:06,720
roswell and what an amazing uh

5566
03:47:12,150 --> 03:47:08,960
journey it has been i want to thank our

5567
03:47:13,910 --> 03:47:12,160
guest tonight mr tom carrey who

5568
03:47:15,590 --> 03:47:13,920
two of my you guys have heard me mention

5569
03:47:17,510 --> 03:47:15,600
these books time and time again witness

5570
03:47:20,070 --> 03:47:17,520
to ron if you only get two get witness

5571
03:47:22,950 --> 03:47:20,080
to roswell and children of roswell

5572
03:47:25,429 --> 03:47:22,960
followed very quickly by uh the real

5573
03:47:28,550 --> 03:47:25,439
area 51 which tells the whole story of

5574
03:47:30,870 --> 03:47:28,560
ray patterson and all of the the stories

5575
03:47:32,870 --> 03:47:30,880
of top secret and alien technology that

5576
03:47:34,950 --> 03:47:32,880
may have been taken to write patterson

5577
03:47:36,229 --> 03:47:34,960
these are just great books i want to

5578
03:47:38,229 --> 03:47:36,239
thank each and every one of you for

5579
03:47:39,990 --> 03:47:38,239
joining us and mr carrie if you're

5580
03:47:41,990 --> 03:47:40,000
standing by i'm going to play a bumper

5581
03:47:43,110 --> 03:47:42,000
out and i'll be with you in just one

5582
03:47:44,950 --> 03:47:43,120
moment

5583
03:47:47,030 --> 03:47:44,960
so friends i'm always happy when there's

5584
03:47:48,229 --> 03:47:47,040
an audience i can't tell you how happy i

5585
03:47:50,550 --> 03:47:48,239
am listen

5586
03:47:52,550 --> 03:47:50,560
i'm taking this journey and you guys get

5587
03:47:54,870 --> 03:47:52,560
to take it with me and that's the great

5588
03:47:57,349 --> 03:47:54,880
part of our show here we get to

5589
03:47:59,510 --> 03:47:57,359
uh we get to experience this journey

5590
03:48:00,469 --> 03:47:59,520
together i'm glad that i could take you

5591
03:48:02,469 --> 03:48:00,479
with you

5592
03:48:14,410 --> 03:48:02,479
take you guys with me i'm glad that we

5593
03:48:14,420 --> 03:49:01,750
[Music]

5594
03:49:01,760 --> 03:49:05,550
so

5595
03:49:29,960 --> 03:49:28,870
[Music]

5596
03:49:52,630 --> 03:49:29,970
so

5597
03:49:55,349 --> 03:49:52,640
[Music]

5598
03:49:58,630 --> 03:49:55,359
greetings and salutations and thank you

5599
03:50:01,189 --> 03:49:58,640
for being here for the 75th roswell

5600
03:50:02,309 --> 03:50:01,199
anniversary truth seeker special deep

5601
03:50:03,830 --> 03:50:02,319
dive

5602
03:50:05,429 --> 03:50:03,840
if you're new to the channel please be

5603
03:50:07,990 --> 03:50:05,439
sure to subscribe and hit that

5604
03:50:09,990 --> 03:50:08,000
notification bell so you too will know

5605
03:50:12,389 --> 03:50:10,000
about future special events you can

5606
03:50:14,710 --> 03:50:12,399
attend here i wanted to take a moment to

5607
03:50:16,790 --> 03:50:14,720
thank all of our kind and generous

5608
03:50:19,830 --> 03:50:16,800
benefactors because people all over the

5609
03:50:22,630 --> 03:50:19,840
world send a few bucks in in pledges

5610
03:50:25,030 --> 03:50:22,640
either through paypal or through the

5611
03:50:27,670 --> 03:50:25,040
super chat down there in the live chat

5612
03:50:31,030 --> 03:50:27,680
the money button super stickers

5613
03:50:32,710 --> 03:50:31,040
we have and take cash at pledges as well

5614
03:50:34,870 --> 03:50:32,720
i want to thank everybody who has signed

5615
03:50:36,710 --> 03:50:34,880
up to be a patreon member because for as

5616
03:50:39,429 --> 03:50:36,720
little as a dollar a month you can get

5617
03:50:41,590 --> 03:50:39,439
some extra content from us here

5618
03:50:44,550 --> 03:50:41,600
additionally i'd like to thank the

5619
03:50:46,630 --> 03:50:44,560
channel members who get a bunch of

5620
03:50:48,870 --> 03:50:46,640
youtube benefits as well as all the

5621
03:50:50,309 --> 03:50:48,880
patreon benefits for as little as five

5622
03:50:51,910 --> 03:50:50,319
dollars a month

5623
03:50:55,030 --> 03:50:51,920
i also wanted to mention

5624
03:50:59,830 --> 03:50:55,040
uh that i have uh something

5625
03:51:00,830 --> 03:50:59,840
strange for my friends these are roswell

5626
03:51:02,710 --> 03:51:00,840
wreckage

5627
03:51:05,030 --> 03:51:02,720
replicas

5628
03:51:07,510 --> 03:51:05,040
which i have been making here i also

5629
03:51:10,630 --> 03:51:07,520
wanted to mention that for today's

5630
03:51:13,429 --> 03:51:10,640
special event we have prizes for those

5631
03:51:16,070 --> 03:51:13,439
of you pledging 30 or more

5632
03:51:17,349 --> 03:51:16,080
either through cash app paypal or super

5633
03:51:18,150 --> 03:51:17,359
chat

5634
03:51:19,750 --> 03:51:18,160
and

5635
03:51:21,590 --> 03:51:19,760
this is a

5636
03:51:25,670 --> 03:51:21,600
gift that we will be sending everybody

5637
03:51:27,670 --> 03:51:25,680
who pledges 30 or more this is a roswell

5638
03:51:30,630 --> 03:51:27,680
debris replica

5639
03:51:32,870 --> 03:51:30,640
and it's designed to look exactly as

5640
03:51:34,630 --> 03:51:32,880
jesse marcel and his son

5641
03:51:37,830 --> 03:51:34,640
had described

5642
03:51:39,429 --> 03:51:37,840
this is the so-called ib

5643
03:51:42,150 --> 03:51:39,439
wreckage

5644
03:51:44,950 --> 03:51:42,160
this is a replica of course

5645
03:51:49,030 --> 03:51:44,960
and i'm happy that i'll be able to offer

5646
03:51:51,269 --> 03:51:49,040
these to anybody pledging 30 or more

5647
03:51:53,110 --> 03:51:51,279
to our show today this is a just a

5648
03:51:55,429 --> 03:51:53,120
special free gift that we're going to be

5649
03:51:57,670 --> 03:51:55,439
giving you kind and generous people for

5650
03:51:58,870 --> 03:51:57,680
supporting our show

5651
03:52:04,290 --> 03:51:58,880
well friends

5652
03:54:15,830 --> 03:52:16,740
[Music]

5653
03:54:21,590 --> 03:54:18,389
greetings and salutations friends i want

5654
03:54:24,150 --> 03:54:21,600
to welcome everyone to what should be an

5655
03:54:27,189 --> 03:54:24,160
exciting evening tonight is a truth

5656
03:54:31,670 --> 03:54:27,199
seeker special event we

5657
03:54:34,389 --> 03:54:31,680
had a special event revisiting roswell

5658
03:54:36,150 --> 03:54:34,399
time ago uh with author lecturer

5659
03:54:37,429 --> 03:54:36,160
researcher cal korff

5660
03:54:40,150 --> 03:54:37,439
um

5661
03:54:43,349 --> 03:54:40,160
and i thought it only fair

5662
03:54:45,189 --> 03:54:43,359
and uh and right really to hear the

5663
03:54:48,790 --> 03:54:45,199
other side of the story during his

5664
03:54:51,110 --> 03:54:48,800
appearance mr corf made a lot of

5665
03:54:53,990 --> 03:54:51,120
statements uh concerning our tonight's

5666
03:54:57,030 --> 03:54:54,000
guest which is dr kevin randall

5667
03:54:58,790 --> 03:54:57,040
uh author lecturer researcher

5668
03:55:02,790 --> 03:54:58,800
uh

5669
03:55:04,309 --> 03:55:02,800
roswell

5670
03:55:07,110 --> 03:55:04,319
i've heard it said that he's written

5671
03:55:08,309 --> 03:55:07,120
more books about ufos than anyone i'm

5672
03:55:10,469 --> 03:55:08,319
not quite sure we're going to try to

5673
03:55:12,870 --> 03:55:10,479
drill down on that might be him it might

5674
03:55:16,950 --> 03:55:12,880
be nick redford is catching up to him

5675
03:55:19,349 --> 03:55:16,960
though uh and you know he has his own

5676
03:55:21,830 --> 03:55:19,359
very i think well researched take on

5677
03:55:25,030 --> 03:55:21,840
what it is that actually crash landed in

5678
03:55:26,389 --> 03:55:25,040
roswell in 1947. so friends without

5679
03:55:29,429 --> 03:55:26,399
further ado i'm going to welcome

5680
03:55:30,550 --> 03:55:29,439
tonight's uh very special guest dr kevin

5681
03:55:32,389 --> 03:55:30,560
randle

5682
03:55:34,630 --> 03:55:32,399
how you doing mr randall

5683
03:55:36,389 --> 03:55:34,640
i'm doing fine

5684
03:55:38,469 --> 03:55:36,399
oh you told me to call you kevin

5685
03:55:39,750 --> 03:55:38,479
actually yes i did last night i told you

5686
03:55:42,150 --> 03:55:39,760
to call me colonel but that's a whole

5687
03:55:45,830 --> 03:55:42,160
nother argument

5688
03:55:48,710 --> 03:55:45,840
yeah absolutely okay so i have an entire

5689
03:55:50,630 --> 03:55:48,720
list of questions right but

5690
03:55:52,150 --> 03:55:50,640
i thought it would be best if we just

5691
03:55:53,429 --> 03:55:52,160
talk about the elephant in the room

5692
03:55:54,630 --> 03:55:53,439
first because it makes me a little

5693
03:55:56,630 --> 03:55:54,640
uncomfortable

5694
03:55:59,750 --> 03:55:56,640
another guest came on my show and he

5695
03:56:01,510 --> 03:55:59,760
said that your phd is fake that you're

5696
03:56:03,830 --> 03:56:01,520
not a real doctor

5697
03:56:05,590 --> 03:56:03,840
uh and i've heard him post this stuff so

5698
03:56:06,950 --> 03:56:05,600
i just want you to know

5699
03:56:09,189 --> 03:56:06,960
you know we try to bring people the

5700
03:56:11,510 --> 03:56:09,199
truth here i looked into your

5701
03:56:14,710 --> 03:56:11,520
educational background and found it to

5702
03:56:15,670 --> 03:56:14,720
be valid two of your degrees came from

5703
03:56:17,910 --> 03:56:15,680
uh

5704
03:56:20,389 --> 03:56:17,920
online learning universities but they're

5705
03:56:23,349 --> 03:56:20,399
actually accredited by the united states

5706
03:56:25,750 --> 03:56:23,359
and real degrees that they award people

5707
03:56:27,990 --> 03:56:25,760
and these accredited degrees would be

5708
03:56:29,510 --> 03:56:28,000
accepted for a government job

5709
03:56:32,309 --> 03:56:29,520
a corporate job

5710
03:56:34,630 --> 03:56:32,319
or any other uh employment situation as

5711
03:56:37,349 --> 03:56:34,640
a real and valid degree so i'm not sure

5712
03:56:39,750 --> 03:56:37,359
what his b for issue with the with you

5713
03:56:42,150 --> 03:56:39,760
is over these degrees but can you tell

5714
03:56:44,229 --> 03:56:42,160
us a little bit about your education

5715
03:56:45,349 --> 03:56:44,239
just to clear the air as far as that

5716
03:56:47,670 --> 03:56:45,359
goes

5717
03:56:49,189 --> 03:56:47,680
well certainly um

5718
03:56:51,349 --> 03:56:49,199
my undergraduate degree is from the

5719
03:56:53,750 --> 03:56:51,359
university of iowa a fully accredited

5720
03:56:55,429 --> 03:56:53,760
university you can find it

5721
03:56:57,110 --> 03:56:55,439
in a list of colleges anywhere you want

5722
03:56:59,110 --> 03:56:57,120
to look

5723
03:57:00,870 --> 03:56:59,120
i went to the american military

5724
03:57:01,990 --> 03:57:00,880
university which

5725
03:57:04,469 --> 03:57:02,000
i think

5726
03:57:07,030 --> 03:57:04,479
caters to military personnel and and as

5727
03:57:08,710 --> 03:57:07,040
a military officer to move into field

5728
03:57:09,910 --> 03:57:08,720
rank you almost have to have a master's

5729
03:57:11,349 --> 03:57:09,920
degree and i

5730
03:57:13,429 --> 03:57:11,359
pursued a master's degree with the

5731
03:57:15,429 --> 03:57:13,439
american military university which is a

5732
03:57:17,830 --> 03:57:15,439
fully accredited university

5733
03:57:20,309 --> 03:57:17,840
and is now in a con conglomerate of

5734
03:57:22,229 --> 03:57:20,319
different universities and it's fully

5735
03:57:23,830 --> 03:57:22,239
accredited and it's acceptable to the

5736
03:57:25,030 --> 03:57:23,840
united states government the united

5737
03:57:27,510 --> 03:57:25,040
states army

5738
03:57:29,590 --> 03:57:27,520
i also and literally tens of thousands

5739
03:57:32,070 --> 03:57:29,600
of military officers have gone there

5740
03:57:33,830 --> 03:57:32,080
gotten advanced degrees master's degrees

5741
03:57:35,590 --> 03:57:33,840
that's what i found when i looked into

5742
03:57:37,269 --> 03:57:35,600
them so absolutely correct i don't know

5743
03:57:38,630 --> 03:57:37,279
what the issue with that one is either

5744
03:57:41,349 --> 03:57:38,640
if the government accepts it and the

5745
03:57:43,429 --> 03:57:41,359
military accepts it you know

5746
03:57:45,750 --> 03:57:43,439
and i found it was really the hardest

5747
03:57:47,030 --> 03:57:45,760
degree that i had gotten given the work

5748
03:57:49,269 --> 03:57:47,040
that you had we had proctored

5749
03:57:51,269 --> 03:57:49,279
examinations for example you had to come

5750
03:57:53,030 --> 03:57:51,279
up with somebody in the local area since

5751
03:57:55,030 --> 03:57:53,040
it's distance learning

5752
03:57:58,469 --> 03:57:55,040
who they would accept as a proctor i had

5753
03:58:00,070 --> 03:57:58,479
a former um principal from one of the

5754
03:58:01,830 --> 03:58:00,080
elementary schools here in the here in

5755
03:58:03,830 --> 03:58:01,840
the city as the proctor and they found

5756
03:58:06,070 --> 03:58:03,840
him completely acceptable to take the

5757
03:58:08,790 --> 03:58:06,080
take the test did all the work

5758
03:58:10,790 --> 03:58:08,800
um california course university is

5759
03:58:12,790 --> 03:58:10,800
another online school and when i was

5760
03:58:14,950 --> 03:58:12,800
looking for degree programs i went

5761
03:58:17,429 --> 03:58:14,960
through a lot of different

5762
03:58:18,229 --> 03:58:17,439
uh um books

5763
03:58:21,189 --> 03:58:18,239
and

5764
03:58:23,269 --> 03:58:21,199
websites looking for um

5765
03:58:24,150 --> 03:58:23,279
something that would work for me

5766
03:58:26,469 --> 03:58:24,160
and

5767
03:58:29,510 --> 03:58:26,479
i found one that if you uh you had to be

5768
03:58:34,229 --> 03:58:29,520
fluent in two foreign languages

5769
03:58:39,349 --> 03:58:36,469
and things like that i mean there are

5770
03:58:41,830 --> 03:58:39,359
degrees so to speak of

5771
03:58:43,670 --> 03:58:41,840
the the degrees clearly

5772
03:58:45,590 --> 03:58:43,680
getting an online degree from an

5773
03:58:47,990 --> 03:58:45,600
accredited accredited university is not

5774
03:58:50,870 --> 03:58:48,000
the same as going to stanford or mit and

5775
03:58:52,790 --> 03:58:50,880
getting a phd from them i mean there's

5776
03:58:54,630 --> 03:58:52,800
very prestigious degrees isn't it a good

5777
03:58:57,349 --> 03:58:54,640
option for a lot of people it's half the

5778
03:58:58,469 --> 03:58:57,359
cost it's or less you know it's more

5779
03:59:00,630 --> 03:58:58,479
convenient

5780
03:59:02,710 --> 03:59:00,640
and and it allows you you don't have to

5781
03:59:05,189 --> 03:59:02,720
go to um

5782
03:59:06,790 --> 03:59:05,199
the the bricks and mortar campus you can

5783
03:59:08,710 --> 03:59:06,800
continue in your work whatever you

5784
03:59:10,630 --> 03:59:08,720
happen to be doing and get the degree

5785
03:59:13,349 --> 03:59:10,640
that way i did have to write a

5786
03:59:15,990 --> 03:59:13,359
dissertation i did have to go to the

5787
03:59:17,990 --> 03:59:16,000
university to defend that dissertation

5788
03:59:19,990 --> 03:59:18,000
which i did yeah and when you to get a

5789
03:59:21,750 --> 03:59:20,000
master's degree even at an online

5790
03:59:24,389 --> 03:59:21,760
accredited university you'd have to

5791
03:59:26,309 --> 03:59:24,399
write a master's thesis as well right

5792
03:59:28,950 --> 03:59:26,319
well at the american military university

5793
03:59:31,429 --> 03:59:28,960
they had a you had a massive final

5794
03:59:33,510 --> 03:59:31,439
examination you had to take okay and

5795
03:59:35,030 --> 03:59:33,520
they sent you they sent you we'll be

5796
03:59:38,389 --> 03:59:35,040
looking at this area in this area in

5797
03:59:40,070 --> 03:59:38,399
this area uh study for it in these areas

5798
03:59:42,950 --> 03:59:40,080
but they didn't ask you questions in all

5799
03:59:44,790 --> 03:59:42,960
the areas so you had to study everything

5800
03:59:46,950 --> 03:59:44,800
so that you would be prepared that

5801
03:59:49,590 --> 03:59:46,960
sounds like a nightmare yeah

5802
03:59:51,429 --> 03:59:49,600
that one that was so i just i listen i

5803
03:59:53,750 --> 03:59:51,439
don't understand what the controversy or

5804
03:59:55,750 --> 03:59:53,760
the problem is you know i have never

5805
03:59:57,670 --> 03:59:55,760
suggested that it was any kind of a

5806
03:59:59,830 --> 03:59:57,680
prestigious degree i mean it's a

5807
04:00:01,269 --> 03:59:59,840
legitimate phd it's accepted it was

5808
04:00:02,630 --> 04:00:01,279
accepted by the united states army i

5809
04:00:05,030 --> 04:00:02,640
think when i was in iraq there were two

5810
04:00:07,110 --> 04:00:05,040
of us in the entire brigade that had

5811
04:00:09,750 --> 04:00:07,120
phds the other one was the brigade

5812
04:00:12,710 --> 04:00:09,760
commander and just so unclear if you get

5813
04:00:15,590 --> 04:00:12,720
a phd it comes with the title doctor

5814
04:00:17,990 --> 04:00:15,600
right so absolutely it's not no problem

5815
04:00:19,750 --> 04:00:18,000
with calling you dr kevin randall then

5816
04:00:21,590 --> 04:00:19,760
that's he had an issue with that as well

5817
04:00:23,110 --> 04:00:21,600
like you're not a real doctor i mean

5818
04:00:25,510 --> 04:00:23,120
maybe not a medical doctor but you have

5819
04:00:27,510 --> 04:00:25,520
a phd therefore it comes with

5820
04:00:29,189 --> 04:00:27,520
getting a phd comes with the title

5821
04:00:30,469 --> 04:00:29,199
doctor you could get a piece of only

5822
04:00:32,550 --> 04:00:30,479
time

5823
04:00:34,389 --> 04:00:32,560
or theology and you're still a doctor

5824
04:00:36,790 --> 04:00:34,399
you're a doctor of theology or a doctor

5825
04:00:40,070 --> 04:00:36,800
of philosophy not a medical doctor or or

5826
04:00:42,309 --> 04:00:40,080
a doctor of education jill biden

5827
04:00:43,670 --> 04:00:42,319
yeah the big country about her degree

5828
04:00:45,429 --> 04:00:43,680
being a doctor

5829
04:00:48,950 --> 04:00:45,439
here we have a comment from the live

5830
04:00:51,030 --> 04:00:48,960
chat cal trashed his degree in

5831
04:00:53,269 --> 04:00:51,040
in way to what trash is credibility

5832
04:00:54,150 --> 04:00:53,279
don't know feels slow blow cal

5833
04:00:55,429 --> 04:00:54,160
so

5834
04:00:57,510 --> 04:00:55,439
you know i think most people would agree

5835
04:00:58,389 --> 04:00:57,520
with me i'm sorry i disagree with uh mr

5836
04:00:59,990 --> 04:00:58,399
cork

5837
04:01:01,670 --> 04:01:00,000
i don't care if it's an almighty grant

5838
04:01:03,750 --> 04:01:01,680
if it's credited and the government

5839
04:01:05,830 --> 04:01:03,760
accepts it it's a real degree you may

5840
04:01:07,510 --> 04:01:05,840
not like that he didn't go to a brick

5841
04:01:09,670 --> 04:01:07,520
and mortar you know

5842
04:01:11,590 --> 04:01:09,680
actual physical school but thousands of

5843
04:01:13,349 --> 04:01:11,600
people do this and there's so many

5844
04:01:15,429 --> 04:01:13,359
people that do this now you know i'm

5845
04:01:16,150 --> 04:01:15,439
thinking about doing it well the thing i

5846
04:01:17,110 --> 04:01:16,160
think

5847
04:01:19,510 --> 04:01:17,120
really

5848
04:01:20,790 --> 04:01:19,520
he had he had uh attacked me from

5849
04:01:22,469 --> 04:01:20,800
another point of view and somebody had

5850
04:01:24,229 --> 04:01:22,479
written to me says cal says you didn't

5851
04:01:26,070 --> 04:01:24,239
get the degrees we'd like to check with

5852
04:01:28,070 --> 04:01:26,080
the university we checked and they said

5853
04:01:30,070 --> 04:01:28,080
you have to sign this document so that

5854
04:01:31,910 --> 04:01:30,080
we can release your

5855
04:01:33,510 --> 04:01:31,920
information to them about your your

5856
04:01:35,189 --> 04:01:33,520
degree and i said sure i have no problem

5857
04:01:36,950 --> 04:01:35,199
with that and the thing i find

5858
04:01:39,510 --> 04:01:36,960
interesting is when you challenge

5859
04:01:40,950 --> 04:01:39,520
somebody who is fudging

5860
04:01:42,469 --> 04:01:40,960
their resume

5861
04:01:45,429 --> 04:01:42,479
they will say i'm not going to dignify

5862
04:01:47,910 --> 04:01:45,439
that with a response i always respond

5863
04:01:49,670 --> 04:01:47,920
yeah you've got a good answer and yeah

5864
04:01:52,790 --> 04:01:49,680
you you you know

5865
04:01:54,870 --> 04:01:52,800
and you also will allow people to get

5866
04:01:56,710 --> 04:01:54,880
copies of whatever they want including

5867
04:01:58,389 --> 04:01:56,720
your military records which i find

5868
04:02:00,309 --> 04:01:58,399
refreshing because there's too many

5869
04:02:02,229 --> 04:02:00,319
people in ufo land claiming military

5870
04:02:04,469 --> 04:02:02,239
service that don't

5871
04:02:06,710 --> 04:02:04,479
it doesn't add up you know

5872
04:02:08,710 --> 04:02:06,720
well i know when you check you find out

5873
04:02:09,990 --> 04:02:08,720
they were never even in the air force or

5874
04:02:12,950 --> 04:02:10,000
something you know

5875
04:02:14,550 --> 04:02:12,960
or the army yes yes or no

5876
04:02:17,349 --> 04:02:14,560
and you've got extensive military

5877
04:02:19,990 --> 04:02:17,359
experience in fact you went back

5878
04:02:22,630 --> 04:02:20,000
you enlisted again right to go into the

5879
04:02:24,309 --> 04:02:22,640
iraq wars well i i

5880
04:02:27,189 --> 04:02:24,319
enlisted in the army right out of high

5881
04:02:29,990 --> 04:02:27,199
school because they had a program

5882
04:02:31,189 --> 04:02:30,000
that took high school graduates

5883
04:02:33,189 --> 04:02:31,199
and and sent them to flight school

5884
04:02:36,229 --> 04:02:33,199
helicopter flight school

5885
04:02:37,830 --> 04:02:36,239
and so that's what i did and uh 13

5886
04:02:39,990 --> 04:02:37,840
months after signing up for the army i

5887
04:02:41,590 --> 04:02:40,000
found my butt in vietnam

5888
04:02:43,590 --> 04:02:41,600
and and for those who are interested you

5889
04:02:47,429 --> 04:02:43,600
know i i tell some stories like i blew a

5890
04:02:52,150 --> 04:02:49,189
blew it up on a land mine and people you

5891
04:02:55,590 --> 04:02:52,160
know look at the scans if you go i i've

5892
04:02:57,349 --> 04:02:55,600
got a blog called it's www vietnam

5893
04:02:59,269 --> 04:02:57,359
dot

5894
04:03:01,429 --> 04:02:59,279
vietnam ground zero all one word and

5895
04:03:03,670 --> 04:03:01,439
what i'm doing is putting up

5896
04:03:07,030 --> 04:03:03,680
the um information about my my

5897
04:03:08,870 --> 04:03:07,040
experiences in vietnam because we just

5898
04:03:11,830 --> 04:03:08,880
to to backtrack i'm getting ahead of

5899
04:03:13,189 --> 04:03:11,840
myself um bob cornett and i

5900
04:03:14,550 --> 04:03:13,199
wanted to be writers when we were in

5901
04:03:15,590 --> 04:03:14,560
college we were in college together one

5902
04:03:17,189 --> 04:03:15,600
of the things we want to do is write

5903
04:03:18,630 --> 04:03:17,199
science fiction books

5904
04:03:20,469 --> 04:03:18,640
and we would go to the science fiction

5905
04:03:22,309 --> 04:03:20,479
conventions to meet editors and we met

5906
04:03:24,630 --> 04:03:22,319
an agent there and she signs up and she

5907
04:03:27,590 --> 04:03:24,640
called me at work one day about the

5908
04:03:28,950 --> 04:03:27,600
green berets of vietnam i said yeah sure

5909
04:03:30,389 --> 04:03:28,960
she'd called says can you write books

5910
04:03:32,710 --> 04:03:30,399
about nurses and hospitals i would've

5911
04:03:34,309 --> 04:03:32,720
said yeah sure i can do that

5912
04:03:36,630 --> 04:03:34,319
yeah what do you need right yeah

5913
04:03:38,550 --> 04:03:36,640
absolutely and so bob and i wrote some

5914
04:03:40,229 --> 04:03:38,560
30 books

5915
04:03:42,950 --> 04:03:40,239
called vietnam ground zero well if

5916
04:03:44,550 --> 04:03:42,960
english company is reissuing the books

5917
04:03:46,710 --> 04:03:44,560
uh i think the first seven have just

5918
04:03:49,590 --> 04:03:46,720
have come out over since july

5919
04:03:50,950 --> 04:03:49,600
and so i put up a blog to kind of

5920
04:03:53,030 --> 04:03:50,960
promote that and i thought well what

5921
04:03:54,469 --> 04:03:53,040
i'll do is i'll just put up my vietnam

5922
04:03:56,070 --> 04:03:54,479
experiences

5923
04:03:58,150 --> 04:03:56,080
on this blog

5924
04:03:59,990 --> 04:03:58,160
so that they can people can see that yes

5925
04:04:01,670 --> 04:04:00,000
i am a real honest-to-god vietnam

5926
04:04:02,950 --> 04:04:01,680
veteran so when i say i blow up a

5927
04:04:05,189 --> 04:04:02,960
helicopter on

5928
04:04:06,550 --> 04:04:05,199
on a landmine if you go to the blog

5929
04:04:08,389 --> 04:04:06,560
there's a story about i blew a

5930
04:04:10,469 --> 04:04:08,399
helicopter i blew up a helicopter on a

5931
04:04:12,389 --> 04:04:10,479
landmine and you scroll on down and

5932
04:04:14,070 --> 04:04:12,399
there's a link to the 187th assault

5933
04:04:15,349 --> 04:04:14,080
helicopter company it takes you to their

5934
04:04:18,870 --> 04:04:15,359
website

5935
04:04:21,269 --> 04:04:18,880
and you the unit history you go to 69

5936
04:04:22,229 --> 04:04:21,279
which is 1969 and i hesitate to say that

5937
04:04:24,309 --> 04:04:22,239
because that

5938
04:04:27,110 --> 04:04:24,319
gives away my advanced age

5939
04:04:28,550 --> 04:04:27,120
but you scroll on down to may 16th and

5940
04:04:29,990 --> 04:04:28,560
it says chief warrant officer kevin

5941
04:04:33,269 --> 04:04:30,000
randall does this thing and i think it's

5942
04:04:34,950 --> 04:04:33,279
aircraft 617 finds the only mine block

5943
04:04:37,030 --> 04:04:34,960
rice paddy in

5944
04:04:37,990 --> 04:04:37,040
south vietnam and then it describes some

5945
04:04:39,990 --> 04:04:38,000
of the

5946
04:04:42,790 --> 04:04:40,000
damage done to the helicopter so you can

5947
04:04:44,469 --> 04:04:42,800
now go to a source that i do not control

5948
04:04:45,990 --> 04:04:44,479
and see that i did in fact blow up a

5949
04:04:47,590 --> 04:04:46,000
helicopter on a land mine the only thing

5950
04:04:49,189 --> 04:04:47,600
inaccurate about that it says chief

5951
04:04:50,710 --> 04:04:49,199
warrant officer kevin randall at the

5952
04:04:52,630 --> 04:04:50,720
time i did it i wasn't a chief warrant

5953
04:04:54,309 --> 04:04:52,640
officer i didn't get that promotion for

5954
04:04:55,349 --> 04:04:54,319
another two months but

5955
04:04:56,469 --> 04:04:55,359
um

5956
04:04:59,910 --> 04:04:56,479
so

5957
04:05:02,150 --> 04:04:59,920
i've been

5958
04:05:05,030 --> 04:05:02,160
very scrupulous on talking about my

5959
04:05:07,030 --> 04:05:05,040
educational background and my

5960
04:05:08,550 --> 04:05:07,040
military background because i know

5961
04:05:10,710 --> 04:05:08,560
people check these things out and i know

5962
04:05:12,389 --> 04:05:10,720
stan friedman checked me out one time

5963
04:05:13,990 --> 04:05:12,399
and he never said another word about it

5964
04:05:15,910 --> 04:05:14,000
because

5965
04:05:17,189 --> 04:05:15,920
he got the documentation and i was who i

5966
04:05:19,510 --> 04:05:17,199
said i was

5967
04:05:21,510 --> 04:05:19,520
i had been i have been a ward officer in

5968
04:05:23,110 --> 04:05:21,520
the army i was spent a year in vietnam i

5969
04:05:24,790 --> 04:05:23,120
spent four years on active duty with the

5970
04:05:27,189 --> 04:05:24,800
army i got out of the army i went to

5971
04:05:29,110 --> 04:05:27,199
college took air force rotc because as a

5972
04:05:31,110 --> 04:05:29,120
warrant officer you could do that

5973
04:05:32,950 --> 04:05:31,120
and uh and was commissioned in the air

5974
04:05:36,950 --> 04:05:32,960
force spent some time in the air force i

5975
04:05:39,670 --> 04:05:36,960
worked as a general's aide for like

5976
04:05:41,990 --> 04:05:39,680
while his aid was on on

5977
04:05:44,229 --> 04:05:42,000
on on leave and the general liked me

5978
04:05:45,670 --> 04:05:44,239
because he had been a b-17 pilot in

5979
04:05:48,630 --> 04:05:45,680
world war ii and i've been an army

5980
04:05:50,790 --> 04:05:48,640
helicopter pilot in vietnam so he

5981
04:05:52,469 --> 04:05:50,800
he when i was ready to leave that unit

5982
04:05:53,429 --> 04:05:52,479
he said well you know on the reserve

5983
04:05:56,070 --> 04:05:53,439
side

5984
04:05:59,349 --> 04:05:56,080
we've got um two slots available as my

5985
04:06:01,030 --> 04:05:59,359
aide and um as the intelligence officer

5986
04:06:02,469 --> 04:06:01,040
well i stupidly picked the wrong one and

5987
04:06:03,750 --> 04:06:02,479
went for intelligence officer if i'd

5988
04:06:05,510 --> 04:06:03,760
been smart and knew what i was doing i

5989
04:06:08,790 --> 04:06:05,520
would have picked uh general's aide

5990
04:06:10,790 --> 04:06:08,800
because you learn a lot more that way

5991
04:06:11,990 --> 04:06:10,800
so i know stan was upset because i was

5992
04:06:13,910 --> 04:06:12,000
talking about being an intelligence

5993
04:06:15,349 --> 04:06:13,920
officer i was serving on on

5994
04:06:17,429 --> 04:06:15,359
in the reserve i've served on active

5995
04:06:19,429 --> 04:06:17,439
duty as an intelligence officer and i'm

5996
04:06:21,349 --> 04:06:19,439
sure he checked that out

5997
04:06:23,750 --> 04:06:21,359
but he never said i said a word about it

5998
04:06:25,750 --> 04:06:23,760
and maybe it's the number of fraudsters

5999
04:06:28,229 --> 04:06:25,760
out there that claim these things you

6000
04:06:30,710 --> 04:06:28,239
know and and meanwhile here's a real and

6001
04:06:32,710 --> 04:06:30,720
genuine military officer that really was

6002
04:06:34,630 --> 04:06:32,720
an intelligence officer that really has

6003
04:06:36,469 --> 04:06:34,640
these educational credentials and it's

6004
04:06:39,189 --> 04:06:36,479
kind of hard for some people to believe

6005
04:06:41,510 --> 04:06:39,199
that there's there is genuine people

6006
04:06:44,630 --> 04:06:41,520
you know i think part of the problem was

6007
04:06:46,150 --> 04:06:44,640
when i got back from iraq um

6008
04:06:47,510 --> 04:06:46,160
the man whose name i do not want to

6009
04:06:49,349 --> 04:06:47,520
speak cal

6010
04:06:51,830 --> 04:06:49,359
um

6011
04:06:53,349 --> 04:06:51,840
sent me this letter that uh this email

6012
04:06:55,990 --> 04:06:53,359
about you know we were colleagues and

6013
04:06:58,070 --> 04:06:56,000
brother officers and blah blah blah and

6014
04:06:59,990 --> 04:06:58,080
he's in some organization that nobody

6015
04:07:01,429 --> 04:07:00,000
can find some mythical organization and

6016
04:07:02,790 --> 04:07:01,439
said he was a captain and i was a

6017
04:07:04,550 --> 04:07:02,800
captain and all of this stuff and i'm

6018
04:07:06,469 --> 04:07:04,560
thinking i don't want to talk to you

6019
04:07:08,389 --> 04:07:06,479
and i think that kind of annoyed him and

6020
04:07:09,910 --> 04:07:08,399
then i got promoted to major

6021
04:07:11,910 --> 04:07:09,920
so suddenly he was no longer a captain

6022
04:07:13,110 --> 04:07:11,920
he got promoted to colonel

6023
04:07:15,189 --> 04:07:13,120
so

6024
04:07:17,189 --> 04:07:15,199
i've not heard i've not heard that kind

6025
04:07:19,030 --> 04:07:17,199
of stuff so yeah and

6026
04:07:20,790 --> 04:07:19,040
the funny thing the funny thing was you

6027
04:07:22,309 --> 04:07:20,800
know he talks about well you know my

6028
04:07:23,830 --> 04:07:22,319
organization is super secret i'm

6029
04:07:26,070 --> 04:07:23,840
thinking then why are you blabbing about

6030
04:07:28,469 --> 04:07:26,080
it all over the internet you boob

6031
04:07:29,990 --> 04:07:28,479
and then the second thing that got to me

6032
04:07:31,670 --> 04:07:30,000
well you couldn't find any reference to

6033
04:07:33,189 --> 04:07:31,680
it on the internet well if you want to

6034
04:07:35,110 --> 04:07:33,199
look up the organization from which i've

6035
04:07:37,990 --> 04:07:35,120
been commissioned the united states army

6036
04:07:39,830 --> 04:07:38,000
you can find it all over the internet

6037
04:07:42,149 --> 04:07:39,840
but you can find documentation there's a

6038
04:07:44,229 --> 04:07:42,159
picture well again on my blog um the

6039
04:07:46,070 --> 04:07:44,239
vietnam ground zero blog uh there's a

6040
04:07:47,590 --> 04:07:46,080
picture of me in flight school

6041
04:07:49,910 --> 04:07:47,600
you know we're all the whole platoon's

6042
04:07:51,990 --> 04:07:49,920
sitting there and um i'm in the second

6043
04:07:53,670 --> 04:07:52,000
row and i think i'm second from the left

6044
04:07:54,790 --> 04:07:53,680
and so i put that picture up on the blog

6045
04:07:56,790 --> 04:07:54,800
it's not a very good picture and you'll

6046
04:07:59,750 --> 04:07:56,800
be hard to identify me but you can see

6047
04:08:02,229 --> 04:07:59,760
it there's a picture of me up in the

6048
04:08:05,030 --> 04:08:02,239
dress addressed in my jungle fatigues in

6049
04:08:07,830 --> 04:08:05,040
vietnam with complete with my 38 caliber

6050
04:08:10,149 --> 04:08:07,840
revolver with the peace symbol on it so

6051
04:08:11,830 --> 04:08:10,159
that's that's pretty funny and you know

6052
04:08:13,910 --> 04:08:11,840
until i heard him say something like

6053
04:08:15,030 --> 04:08:13,920
this i've never heard anybody i've heard

6054
04:08:17,349 --> 04:08:15,040
you on

6055
04:08:19,189 --> 04:08:17,359
so many different you know podcasts and

6056
04:08:21,110 --> 04:08:19,199
documentaries and television shows and

6057
04:08:22,870 --> 04:08:21,120
i've never heard anybody say anything

6058
04:08:25,349 --> 04:08:22,880
negative about your education or about

6059
04:08:26,950 --> 04:08:25,359
your military service being suspect so i

6060
04:08:29,910 --> 04:08:26,960
think we've covered that and we can move

6061
04:08:31,990 --> 04:08:29,920
on to roswell i guess

6062
04:08:34,469 --> 04:08:32,000
my first the first big question that i

6063
04:08:36,229 --> 04:08:34,479
had is why uh

6064
04:08:38,790 --> 04:08:36,239
first why the interest in ufos in

6065
04:08:40,710 --> 04:08:38,800
general but then why did you become

6066
04:08:42,710 --> 04:08:40,720
what i would call laser focused on

6067
04:08:46,229 --> 04:08:42,720
investigating roswell as one of the

6068
04:08:48,870 --> 04:08:46,239
early civilian investigators

6069
04:08:51,670 --> 04:08:48,880
the interest comes from my mother

6070
04:08:53,269 --> 04:08:51,680
she was a big science fiction fan

6071
04:08:55,349 --> 04:08:53,279
and science fiction is about alien

6072
04:08:56,870 --> 04:08:55,359
visitation and alien civilizations and

6073
04:08:58,469 --> 04:08:56,880
space travel and all of that and when

6074
04:09:00,710 --> 04:08:58,479
you start talking about ufos you're

6075
04:09:02,389 --> 04:09:00,720
talking about alien civilizations uh

6076
04:09:04,389 --> 04:09:02,399
space travel and all that sort of thing

6077
04:09:05,910 --> 04:09:04,399
so it just kind of flowed together in

6078
04:09:07,429 --> 04:09:05,920
fact one of the first movies i ever saw

6079
04:09:09,110 --> 04:09:07,439
my mother took me to was earth versus

6080
04:09:11,750 --> 04:09:09,120
the flying saucers

6081
04:09:15,910 --> 04:09:11,760
and that kind of sparked the interest

6082
04:09:17,750 --> 04:09:15,920
so it carried on from from that point on

6083
04:09:19,910 --> 04:09:17,760
i was at a science fiction convention in

6084
04:09:22,149 --> 04:09:19,920
milwaukee wisconsin

6085
04:09:23,349 --> 04:09:22,159
and there were three of us that were

6086
04:09:25,910 --> 04:09:23,359
going to

6087
04:09:28,070 --> 04:09:25,920
debate ufos with two guys from the

6088
04:09:28,950 --> 04:09:28,080
center for ufo studies i was on the con

6089
04:09:30,950 --> 04:09:28,960
side

6090
04:09:32,469 --> 04:09:30,960
and don schmidt and another fellow was

6091
04:09:34,469 --> 04:09:32,479
coming up from the center of ufo studies

6092
04:09:36,389 --> 04:09:34,479
and we were going to debate it on my

6093
04:09:38,229 --> 04:09:36,399
side was frederick pohl and i think

6094
04:09:41,030 --> 04:09:38,239
george rr martin was the third guy

6095
04:09:42,550 --> 04:09:41,040
before he became george r.r martin

6096
04:09:44,070 --> 04:09:42,560
and game of thrones

6097
04:09:45,590 --> 04:09:44,080
wow interesting

6098
04:09:47,510 --> 04:09:45,600
well i actually was in his house in

6099
04:09:49,990 --> 04:09:47,520
dubuque once before he was george r.r

6100
04:09:51,670 --> 04:09:50,000
martin when he lived in dubuque iowa

6101
04:09:53,910 --> 04:09:51,680
but um

6102
04:09:55,349 --> 04:09:53,920
when don showed up there wasn't the

6103
04:09:56,710 --> 04:09:55,359
second guy couldn't make it i thought

6104
04:09:58,950 --> 04:09:56,720
well this is not fair three to one and

6105
04:10:02,070 --> 04:09:58,960
it's a debate so i switched sides

6106
04:10:03,670 --> 04:10:02,080
because you can't i mean in the debate

6107
04:10:05,670 --> 04:10:03,680
how that happened so there's how you

6108
04:10:07,670 --> 04:10:05,680
became friends with uh mr schmidt i

6109
04:10:09,990 --> 04:10:07,680
suppose absolutely absolutely and i was

6110
04:10:11,429 --> 04:10:10,000
putting together a book on it was based

6111
04:10:13,510 --> 04:10:11,439
on the magazine articles i'd written in

6112
04:10:14,630 --> 04:10:13,520
the 1970s called the ufo case book and

6113
04:10:15,990 --> 04:10:14,640
there was a bunch of stuff there and i

6114
04:10:19,510 --> 04:10:16,000
interviewed a couple of people who were

6115
04:10:22,630 --> 04:10:19,520
in the ufo field to flesh out the book

6116
04:10:24,149 --> 04:10:22,640
so um don got a hold of me and he said

6117
04:10:25,590 --> 04:10:24,159
that they were going to investigate the

6118
04:10:26,870 --> 04:10:25,600
roswell case i didn't know that much

6119
04:10:28,710 --> 04:10:26,880
about it i knew a little bit about it

6120
04:10:30,950 --> 04:10:28,720
but i didn't know much about it

6121
04:10:32,870 --> 04:10:30,960
and they wanted the center beautiful

6122
04:10:34,630 --> 04:10:32,880
studies thought i would be a good person

6123
04:10:36,469 --> 04:10:34,640
to partner with because of my military

6124
04:10:37,910 --> 04:10:36,479
background and a lot of the witnesses

6125
04:10:39,189 --> 04:10:37,920
would have a military background and i

6126
04:10:41,429 --> 04:10:39,199
would understand things that the

6127
04:10:43,110 --> 04:10:41,439
civilians may not understand and and one

6128
04:10:46,149 --> 04:10:43,120
of the best examples that i think in the

6129
04:10:48,630 --> 04:10:46,159
um the roswell incident bill moore and

6130
04:10:51,030 --> 04:10:48,640
charles burlitz they say that colonel

6131
04:10:52,790 --> 04:10:51,040
dubose was general raymie's aide

6132
04:10:54,870 --> 04:10:52,800
and i said no brigadier general doesn't

6133
04:10:56,790 --> 04:10:54,880
have a full kernel as an aide

6134
04:10:58,309 --> 04:10:56,800
and it found out that dubose was

6135
04:11:00,950 --> 04:10:58,319
actually the chief of staff a much more

6136
04:11:02,309 --> 04:11:00,960
important position than than the aid a

6137
04:11:04,070 --> 04:11:02,319
four-star general like the chief of

6138
04:11:06,389 --> 04:11:04,080
staff may have a full kernel for an aid

6139
04:11:08,309 --> 04:11:06,399
but a brigadier general

6140
04:11:10,229 --> 04:11:08,319
no not so much but i mean that's the

6141
04:11:12,630 --> 04:11:10,239
kind of thing i would know that that the

6142
04:11:14,469 --> 04:11:12,640
civilians wouldn't know so we we trotted

6143
04:11:16,550 --> 04:11:14,479
on down to roswell and both of us kind

6144
04:11:22,870 --> 04:11:16,560
of thought that we would we would solve

6145
04:11:26,389 --> 04:11:25,189
you're going to get to it right yeah we

6146
04:11:28,149 --> 04:11:26,399
got that we we're going to go down we're

6147
04:11:31,590 --> 04:11:28,159
going to talk to frank joyce who was the

6148
04:11:33,030 --> 04:11:31,600
reporter at kgfl in 1947 we got to ro to

6149
04:11:35,750 --> 04:11:33,040
albuquerque he lived in albuquerque at

6150
04:11:37,189 --> 04:11:35,760
the time um and he didn't want to meet

6151
04:11:39,510 --> 04:11:37,199
with us because he was ill i thought

6152
04:11:42,389 --> 04:11:39,520
well that figures then we went to a

6153
04:11:44,070 --> 04:11:42,399
meeting with a group of

6154
04:11:45,750 --> 04:11:44,080
new age people i think is the best way

6155
04:11:48,870 --> 04:11:45,760
to put it they were way out there way in

6156
04:11:50,229 --> 04:11:48,880
the woo-woo end of it the woo

6157
04:11:51,349 --> 04:11:50,239
i thought well this is absolutely

6158
04:11:53,510 --> 04:11:51,359
useless

6159
04:11:54,950 --> 04:11:53,520
and then we we went down to uh went down

6160
04:11:56,469 --> 04:11:54,960
to roswell we were going to meet cliff

6161
04:11:58,710 --> 04:11:56,479
stone and he didn't want to meet us at

6162
04:12:00,070 --> 04:11:58,720
his house and i don't know why

6163
04:12:02,790 --> 04:12:00,080
because his

6164
04:12:04,309 --> 04:12:02,800
street address is in the telephone book

6165
04:12:05,910 --> 04:12:04,319
but he met us at the burger king and he

6166
04:12:07,590 --> 04:12:05,920
shows up in uniform and i thought well

6167
04:12:09,590 --> 04:12:07,600
that's kind of weird

6168
04:12:11,349 --> 04:12:09,600
but then we go to his house we get to

6169
04:12:12,389 --> 04:12:11,359
his house and uh we're in in the living

6170
04:12:13,590 --> 04:12:12,399
room and he said well just a minute i

6171
04:12:14,550 --> 04:12:13,600
have to go outside and he goes outside

6172
04:12:16,309 --> 04:12:14,560
he comes back and he's carrying a

6173
04:12:18,630 --> 04:12:16,319
document with a top secret cover sheet

6174
04:12:21,030 --> 04:12:18,640
on it and i'm thinking to myself if

6175
04:12:21,990 --> 04:12:21,040
you've got a top secret govern top

6176
04:12:24,710 --> 04:12:22,000
secret

6177
04:12:25,990 --> 04:12:24,720
document there you're going to jail

6178
04:12:27,510 --> 04:12:26,000
because you're not authorized to be

6179
04:12:29,189 --> 04:12:27,520
transporting them in your car and

6180
04:12:30,950 --> 04:12:29,199
leaving them in there and you have to

6181
04:12:36,790 --> 04:12:30,960
keep them

6182
04:12:37,910 --> 04:12:36,800
they got to be in a vault top secret

6183
04:12:39,670 --> 04:12:37,920
documents

6184
04:12:41,990 --> 04:12:39,680
so i know he was a little bit weird but

6185
04:12:44,950 --> 04:12:42,000
he did put us on to a couple of people

6186
04:12:47,269 --> 04:12:44,960
like um ralph hike who who came who who

6187
04:12:49,510 --> 04:12:47,279
provided a a number of interesting leads

6188
04:12:52,389 --> 04:12:49,520
for us the final day we go to meet bill

6189
04:12:54,630 --> 04:12:52,399
brazel i mean here's the guy bill brazel

6190
04:12:55,990 --> 04:12:54,640
and um he meets us in carrozzo new

6191
04:13:00,070 --> 04:12:56,000
mexico we

6192
04:13:02,070 --> 04:13:00,080
meet him at the outpost um cafe or bar

6193
04:13:04,550 --> 04:13:02,080
and grill or whatever the hell it was

6194
04:13:06,870 --> 04:13:04,560
um and and then there's pictures of of

6195
04:13:09,189 --> 04:13:06,880
don and bill brazel and me standing in

6196
04:13:11,349 --> 04:13:09,199
front of the outpost by the way

6197
04:13:13,590 --> 04:13:11,359
and brazil had said to his wife and he

6198
04:13:14,870 --> 04:13:13,600
told us this later that if he liked us

6199
04:13:16,149 --> 04:13:14,880
he would help us and if he didn't like

6200
04:13:17,429 --> 04:13:16,159
us he'd just blow us off well he

6201
04:13:18,870 --> 04:13:17,439
apparently liked us because he was going

6202
04:13:20,870 --> 04:13:18,880
to help us so we spent an hour and a

6203
04:13:23,030 --> 04:13:20,880
half with him interviewing him

6204
04:13:24,950 --> 04:13:23,040
and

6205
04:13:26,389 --> 04:13:24,960
as we were going back to albuquerque i

6206
04:13:29,670 --> 04:13:26,399
said to don

6207
04:13:31,269 --> 04:13:29,680
you know we've got to come back

6208
04:13:32,870 --> 04:13:31,279
you know everything had blown up except

6209
04:13:34,309 --> 04:13:32,880
for bill brazel and bill brazzle comes

6210
04:13:36,630 --> 04:13:34,319
across this very credible and he's the

6211
04:13:38,870 --> 04:13:36,640
guy that handled debris his father was

6212
04:13:40,710 --> 04:13:38,880
the guy that found it i mean we're this

6213
04:13:42,950 --> 04:13:40,720
is the guy we want to talk to and we

6214
04:13:44,710 --> 04:13:42,960
need to come back interestingly we

6215
04:13:46,309 --> 04:13:44,720
published um

6216
04:13:48,469 --> 04:13:46,319
great chunks of that interview

6217
04:13:52,389 --> 04:13:48,479
transcript of that interview in

6218
04:13:56,710 --> 04:13:54,389
the ufo crash at roswell

6219
04:13:58,710 --> 04:13:56,720
stan friedman without credit or or

6220
04:13:59,750 --> 04:13:58,720
attribution published it in his book as

6221
04:14:03,030 --> 04:13:59,760
well

6222
04:14:07,189 --> 04:14:05,830
but yeah i think wasn't it can can i ask

6223
04:14:10,389 --> 04:14:07,199
you another question that i think is

6224
04:14:13,590 --> 04:14:10,399
important it wasn't it very a lot more

6225
04:14:15,830 --> 04:14:13,600
competitive between the people that were

6226
04:14:17,189 --> 04:14:15,840
researching and writing the roswell

6227
04:14:18,870 --> 04:14:17,199
books because we've got

6228
04:14:20,950 --> 04:14:18,880
i've heard a lot of stories that seems

6229
04:14:23,269 --> 04:14:20,960
like you guys were going at it trying to

6230
04:14:26,309 --> 04:14:23,279
get to it and get your books on the

6231
04:14:27,910 --> 04:14:26,319
market before this guys and yeah no i

6232
04:14:30,710 --> 04:14:27,920
think but what happened we had the

6233
04:14:32,389 --> 04:14:30,720
results that came out in 1980 nothing

6234
04:14:35,030 --> 04:14:32,399
else had been done stan got diverted

6235
04:14:36,790 --> 04:14:35,040
into the mj-12 nonsense so he was

6236
04:14:39,030 --> 04:14:36,800
chasing that in fact the center had

6237
04:14:40,790 --> 04:14:39,040
talked to stan about it and asked him

6238
04:14:42,309 --> 04:14:40,800
about additional witnesses that's those

6239
04:14:43,910 --> 04:14:42,319
people you need to talk to and he was

6240
04:14:46,309 --> 04:14:43,920
all on board for it

6241
04:14:48,710 --> 04:14:46,319
so as after we got down to albuquerque

6242
04:14:50,710 --> 04:14:48,720
it was in february of 1989

6243
04:14:52,229 --> 04:14:50,720
and we're driving we're driving back to

6244
04:14:53,349 --> 04:14:52,239
the airport in albuquerque so we could

6245
04:14:54,630 --> 04:14:53,359
fly home

6246
04:14:56,229 --> 04:14:54,640
and i mentioned to don we could do a

6247
04:14:58,149 --> 04:14:56,239
book on this but we've got to come back

6248
04:14:59,030 --> 04:14:58,159
because there's more information to be

6249
04:15:01,590 --> 04:14:59,040
got

6250
04:15:03,990 --> 04:15:01,600
and so we'd come back a number of times

6251
04:15:06,710 --> 04:15:04,000
and then um unsolved mysteries did their

6252
04:15:08,070 --> 04:15:06,720
thing in september of 1989 about roswell

6253
04:15:09,910 --> 04:15:08,080
and i was one of the participants in

6254
04:15:12,309 --> 04:15:09,920
that as was yeah and just just so you

6255
04:15:13,670 --> 04:15:12,319
know mr randall kevin i'm allowed to

6256
04:15:16,309 --> 04:15:13,680
call you kevin now

6257
04:15:18,630 --> 04:15:16,319
the first time i ever saw you was on

6258
04:15:20,710 --> 04:15:18,640
1989 unsolved mysteries my father

6259
04:15:22,469 --> 04:15:20,720
watched every single one and i remember

6260
04:15:24,309 --> 04:15:22,479
sitting and watching that one with my

6261
04:15:26,070 --> 04:15:24,319
father so that was that's why i was so

6262
04:15:28,389 --> 04:15:26,080
happy because the first time i ever saw

6263
04:15:30,070 --> 04:15:28,399
you was on unsolved mysteries in 1989

6264
04:15:32,149 --> 04:15:30,080
watching it with my dad and now you're

6265
04:15:34,950 --> 04:15:32,159
on my show which is just a little bit

6266
04:15:37,510 --> 04:15:34,960
amazing to me

6267
04:15:39,030 --> 04:15:37,520
let's go one step further so i'm in iraq

6268
04:15:41,429 --> 04:15:39,040
and these two sergeants come up to me

6269
04:15:43,110 --> 04:15:41,439
one day and said do you have a brother

6270
04:15:44,309 --> 04:15:43,120
and i said no why

6271
04:15:45,429 --> 04:15:44,319
he said well we were watching this

6272
04:15:47,030 --> 04:15:45,439
program

6273
04:15:49,750 --> 04:15:47,040
and there was a guy with the same last

6274
04:15:53,670 --> 04:15:49,760
name that looked an awful lot like you

6275
04:15:57,510 --> 04:15:53,680
talking about ufos and i said

6276
04:15:59,750 --> 04:15:57,520
program probably from 10 years ago

6277
04:16:01,189 --> 04:15:59,760
realized it was me on the program uh

6278
04:16:03,590 --> 04:16:01,199
that was the first one that i had ever

6279
04:16:05,429 --> 04:16:03,600
done i've done some i've done uh radio

6280
04:16:07,030 --> 04:16:05,439
programs prior to that

6281
04:16:09,189 --> 04:16:07,040
and and things like that but that was

6282
04:16:10,710 --> 04:16:09,199
the first time i ever appeared on tv and

6283
04:16:11,750 --> 04:16:10,720
then later on

6284
04:16:13,349 --> 04:16:11,760
um

6285
04:16:15,750 --> 04:16:13,359
after we finished the book there really

6286
04:16:18,229 --> 04:16:15,760
wasn't wasn't a race to get the books

6287
04:16:20,309 --> 04:16:18,239
out what happened was

6288
04:16:21,750 --> 04:16:20,319
stan came to dawn of me

6289
04:16:23,670 --> 04:16:21,760
and what i remember is talking to in the

6290
04:16:25,269 --> 04:16:23,680
parking lot of this restaurant we must

6291
04:16:26,870 --> 04:16:25,279
have been inside at some point but i

6292
04:16:29,269 --> 04:16:26,880
just remember us talking about and even

6293
04:16:31,269 --> 04:16:29,279
proposed to us well you should put my

6294
04:16:32,309 --> 04:16:31,279
name on your book my name would go third

6295
04:16:33,269 --> 04:16:32,319
and you should give me a quarter of the

6296
04:16:35,269 --> 04:16:33,279
money

6297
04:16:36,229 --> 04:16:35,279
and i'm thinking why what have you done

6298
04:16:37,750 --> 04:16:36,239
for us

6299
04:16:40,309 --> 04:16:37,760
oh no

6300
04:16:41,910 --> 04:16:40,319
all you have done is throw roadblocks in

6301
04:16:43,910 --> 04:16:41,920
front of us as we tried to move through

6302
04:16:46,229 --> 04:16:43,920
the investigation as we got into it and

6303
04:16:47,670 --> 04:16:46,239
we brought him he got more interested in

6304
04:16:49,269 --> 04:16:47,680
it because he realized there was a lot

6305
04:16:50,710 --> 04:16:49,279
to be done there so

6306
04:16:52,469 --> 04:16:50,720
um

6307
04:16:54,550 --> 04:16:52,479
we put out our book

6308
04:16:57,030 --> 04:16:54,560
and then he was well mine's going to be

6309
04:16:58,790 --> 04:16:57,040
a hardback and i'm thinking so a book's

6310
04:17:00,710 --> 04:16:58,800
a book and then my father

6311
04:17:02,149 --> 04:17:00,720
my father says to me one day what are

6312
04:17:03,670 --> 04:17:02,159
you going to write a real book and i

6313
04:17:05,830 --> 04:17:03,680
said what do you mean by a real book and

6314
04:17:07,429 --> 04:17:05,840
he said one with you know hardback i'm

6315
04:17:09,110 --> 04:17:07,439
thinking i thought i'd been writing real

6316
04:17:11,510 --> 04:17:09,120
books

6317
04:17:13,269 --> 04:17:11,520
it's not real unless it's a hardcover

6318
04:17:15,110 --> 04:17:13,279
yeah well then we got the truth about

6319
04:17:16,469 --> 04:17:15,120
ufo crash at roswell and hardback so

6320
04:17:18,550 --> 04:17:16,479
there we go we had a hardback so

6321
04:17:20,950 --> 04:17:18,560
everybody was happy i'm pretty sure i

6322
04:17:22,870 --> 04:17:20,960
have that book and the hardback edition

6323
04:17:26,870 --> 04:17:22,880
too it's all it's only a joke right over

6324
04:17:28,630 --> 04:17:26,880
here stan stan um

6325
04:17:29,990 --> 04:17:28,640
got this

6326
04:17:32,229 --> 04:17:30,000
bug

6327
04:17:33,910 --> 04:17:32,239
that um well i think he came out of the

6328
04:17:36,309 --> 04:17:33,920
the um

6329
04:17:38,630 --> 04:17:36,319
investigation back in 1980 they didn't

6330
04:17:41,189 --> 04:17:38,640
have any stories of alien bodies

6331
04:17:44,070 --> 04:17:41,199
they had jessie marcel they had walter

6332
04:17:45,510 --> 04:17:44,080
hot they had bill brazel but you know

6333
04:17:46,870 --> 04:17:45,520
they're not talking about alien

6334
04:17:49,110 --> 04:17:46,880
creatures they're not talking about

6335
04:17:51,030 --> 04:17:49,120
bodies and then

6336
04:17:53,110 --> 04:17:51,040
vern maltese i think it was

6337
04:17:55,590 --> 04:17:53,120
met stan at a lecture

6338
04:17:57,750 --> 04:17:55,600
he says my uncle barney barnett

6339
04:17:59,510 --> 04:17:57,760
saw a crash craft in the bodies

6340
04:18:00,710 --> 04:17:59,520
over on the plains of san agustin which

6341
04:18:02,950 --> 04:18:00,720
is this

6342
04:18:05,830 --> 04:18:02,960
prehistoric

6343
04:18:08,870 --> 04:18:05,840
lake it's a dried up lake bed in

6344
04:18:10,550 --> 04:18:08,880
in new mexico just west of socorro

6345
04:18:16,070 --> 04:18:10,560
and

6346
04:18:18,710 --> 04:18:16,080
either bill moore i think was bill moore

6347
04:18:21,269 --> 04:18:18,720
called fleck danley which was

6348
04:18:23,110 --> 04:18:21,279
barnett's boss in 1947

6349
04:18:25,110 --> 04:18:23,120
barnett had died

6350
04:18:26,550 --> 04:18:25,120
before anybody talked to him and so

6351
04:18:29,429 --> 04:18:26,560
we're getting the story from other

6352
04:18:31,349 --> 04:18:29,439
people who would talk to him and

6353
04:18:32,950 --> 04:18:31,359
fleck danley seemed to think that the

6354
04:18:35,670 --> 04:18:32,960
barney barnett had told him about seeing

6355
04:18:37,110 --> 04:18:35,680
the crash flying saucer in 1947. i

6356
04:18:39,590 --> 04:18:37,120
talked to philip danley and i thought

6357
04:18:41,750 --> 04:18:39,600
you know i could get him to to confirm

6358
04:18:43,590 --> 04:18:41,760
that he was with um

6359
04:18:45,030 --> 04:18:43,600
crazy horse at the little big horn if i

6360
04:18:46,790 --> 04:18:45,040
wanted to

6361
04:18:49,189 --> 04:18:46,800
wasn't that sharp

6362
04:18:51,189 --> 04:18:49,199
and and and it has to do with his age

6363
04:18:53,030 --> 04:18:51,199
not not that he was dumb or anything i

6364
04:18:55,030 --> 04:18:53,040
mean it was his age i think he was in

6365
04:18:58,389 --> 04:18:55,040
his 80s when i talked to him

6366
04:18:59,110 --> 04:18:58,399
so it just wasn't a reliable source um

6367
04:19:02,950 --> 04:18:59,120
uh

6368
04:19:05,990 --> 04:19:02,960
carl flock and i did a story on barnett

6369
04:19:07,670 --> 04:19:06,000
um in 2000 what's been 2003 it came out

6370
04:19:10,550 --> 04:19:07,680
in the international ufo reporter where

6371
04:19:12,870 --> 04:19:10,560
we we investigated the barnett tale

6372
04:19:17,110 --> 04:19:12,880
um we found a diary actually i found the

6373
04:19:19,349 --> 04:19:17,120
diary ruth barnett's niece alice knight

6374
04:19:20,790 --> 04:19:19,359
somehow i got in touch with her

6375
04:19:23,030 --> 04:19:20,800
and was talking to her about what she

6376
04:19:24,550 --> 04:19:23,040
remembered barney had told them

6377
04:19:27,910 --> 04:19:24,560
and she called me one day and says you

6378
04:19:30,070 --> 04:19:27,920
know i found a diary kept by ruth

6379
04:19:32,149 --> 04:19:30,080
for 1947 apparently the only day a year

6380
04:19:33,830 --> 04:19:32,159
that she did that and it was one of

6381
04:19:35,910 --> 04:19:33,840
those daily reminder books and she kept

6382
04:19:39,269 --> 04:19:35,920
it religiously through the whole year of

6383
04:19:40,870 --> 04:19:39,279
1947. so we're going through this thing

6384
04:19:43,189 --> 04:19:40,880
there's nothing there

6385
04:19:45,590 --> 04:19:43,199
i take it to albuquerque she loans it to

6386
04:19:48,309 --> 04:19:45,600
me i take it to albuquerque and meet

6387
04:19:50,950 --> 04:19:48,319
stan and don schmidt at a um

6388
04:19:52,550 --> 04:19:50,960
copying center and i walk in the door

6389
04:19:54,389 --> 04:19:52,560
and stan doesn't say hello or anything

6390
04:19:56,070 --> 04:19:54,399
he says did you get it yeah i got it

6391
04:19:59,189 --> 04:19:56,080
here it is i figure it's not so he stood

6392
04:20:00,630 --> 04:19:59,199
at the machine and made copies for all

6393
04:20:02,149 --> 04:20:00,640
but there's absolutely nothing in there

6394
04:20:04,309 --> 04:20:02,159
to suggest bonnie barnett was involved

6395
04:20:05,830 --> 04:20:04,319
in any kind of

6396
04:20:07,830 --> 04:20:05,840
of um

6397
04:20:09,750 --> 04:20:07,840
observation

6398
04:20:12,710 --> 04:20:09,760
of a ufo

6399
04:20:14,790 --> 04:20:12,720
now vern maltese and um

6400
04:20:16,229 --> 04:20:14,800
and his wife whose name escapes me at

6401
04:20:16,640 --> 04:20:16,239
the moment

6402
04:20:17,750 --> 04:20:16,650
um

6403
04:20:19,750 --> 04:20:17,760
[Music]

6404
04:20:21,110 --> 04:20:19,760
were at a thanksgiving dinner with

6405
04:20:24,229 --> 04:20:21,120
barney

6406
04:20:28,229 --> 04:20:24,239
in 1947 and it's key it was 1947 so we

6407
04:20:29,830 --> 04:20:28,239
have the diary entry and vern said

6408
04:20:33,189 --> 04:20:29,840
he seemed to remember that barney

6409
04:20:34,469 --> 04:20:33,199
barnett talking about this thing at that

6410
04:20:36,229 --> 04:20:34,479
that um

6411
04:20:37,910 --> 04:20:36,239
thanksgiving dinner alice knight was

6412
04:20:39,590 --> 04:20:37,920
there as well there's nothing in the

6413
04:20:40,469 --> 04:20:39,600
diary about that either well we had

6414
04:20:41,990 --> 04:20:40,479
dinner

6415
04:20:44,070 --> 04:20:42,000
barney told us this amazing story about

6416
04:20:46,229 --> 04:20:44,080
seeing a crash flying saucer if he had

6417
04:20:49,030 --> 04:20:46,239
been so frightened that he didn't share

6418
04:20:50,389 --> 04:20:49,040
the information with his wife in

6419
04:20:52,149 --> 04:20:50,399
july

6420
04:20:53,670 --> 04:20:52,159
now he feels safe to talk in november

6421
04:20:55,750 --> 04:20:53,680
why doesn't she mention this in the

6422
04:20:58,070 --> 04:20:55,760
diary we would love to have something

6423
04:21:01,910 --> 04:20:58,080
like that a document from 1947 where

6424
04:21:06,550 --> 04:21:04,389
carl and i thought that probably what

6425
04:21:08,149 --> 04:21:06,560
happened is that the story that barney

6426
04:21:10,309 --> 04:21:08,159
barnett was telling actually had more to

6427
04:21:12,070 --> 04:21:10,319
do with the aztec crash

6428
04:21:13,429 --> 04:21:12,080
than it did with anything else and they

6429
04:21:15,670 --> 04:21:13,439
probably began telling the story

6430
04:21:17,030 --> 04:21:15,680
sometime after 1950

6431
04:21:19,590 --> 04:21:17,040
so we don't think that he was on the

6432
04:21:21,510 --> 04:21:19,600
plains of san agustin in 1947. i don't

6433
04:21:24,229 --> 04:21:21,520
believe the story given

6434
04:21:26,070 --> 04:21:24,239
that all testimony about the plains of

6435
04:21:27,349 --> 04:21:26,080
san augustine crash comes back to barney

6436
04:21:29,750 --> 04:21:27,359
barnett

6437
04:21:32,070 --> 04:21:29,760
we found a guy we found a number of

6438
04:21:33,830 --> 04:21:32,080
scientists who were involved in research

6439
04:21:36,469 --> 04:21:33,840
on the plains of san agustin there's a

6440
04:21:38,229 --> 04:21:36,479
number of old prehistoric

6441
04:21:39,910 --> 04:21:38,239
inhabitations there

6442
04:21:42,229 --> 04:21:39,920
campsites and whatnot and i hesitate to

6443
04:21:44,950 --> 04:21:42,239
mention the one it's called bat cave

6444
04:21:46,790 --> 04:21:44,960
because it's got bats in it

6445
04:21:48,710 --> 04:21:46,800
the back cave oh no

6446
04:21:50,950 --> 04:21:48,720
it's on the it's on the eastern side of

6447
04:21:53,510 --> 04:21:50,960
the lake

6448
04:21:55,429 --> 04:21:53,520
but it faces to the west

6449
04:21:56,870 --> 04:21:55,439
and the guy named um

6450
04:21:59,110 --> 04:21:56,880
herbert dick

6451
04:22:00,550 --> 04:21:59,120
was doing archaeological research at

6452
04:22:03,670 --> 04:22:00,560
that place

6453
04:22:05,110 --> 04:22:03,680
in july of 1947 and in fact we were able

6454
04:22:07,830 --> 04:22:05,120
to put him there

6455
04:22:09,830 --> 04:22:07,840
in that cave on july 1st because of the

6456
04:22:12,469 --> 04:22:09,840
documentation we got from harvard

6457
04:22:16,389 --> 04:22:12,479
university so he's on the planes he's on

6458
04:22:18,309 --> 04:22:16,399
the plains of san agustin when when um

6459
04:22:19,750 --> 04:22:18,319
gerald anderson is talking about how he

6460
04:22:20,630 --> 04:22:19,760
had been involved in

6461
04:22:22,070 --> 04:22:20,640
in this thing when he was a

6462
04:22:24,630 --> 04:22:22,080
five-year-old kid and his parents were

6463
04:22:26,389 --> 04:22:24,640
out he was with his father and his uncle

6464
04:22:27,910 --> 04:22:26,399
looking for moss agate on the plains of

6465
04:22:29,990 --> 04:22:27,920
san agustin which by the way doesn't

6466
04:22:33,030 --> 04:22:30,000
exist there i know this because i

6467
04:22:34,550 --> 04:22:33,040
checked with a number of neurologists in

6468
04:22:36,790 --> 04:22:34,560
in new mexico

6469
04:22:39,429 --> 04:22:36,800
um so he's talking about this huge

6470
04:22:40,630 --> 04:22:39,439
battalion size up

6471
04:22:42,229 --> 04:22:40,640
yes

6472
04:22:44,229 --> 04:22:42,239
well you can stand you could have stood

6473
04:22:45,510 --> 04:22:44,239
in bat cave and seen this thing going on

6474
04:22:47,590 --> 04:22:45,520
across the lake

6475
04:22:48,870 --> 04:22:47,600
but her dick said herbert dick said no

6476
04:22:50,469 --> 04:22:48,880
nothing like that happened he didn't see

6477
04:22:51,590 --> 04:22:50,479
anything like that he said i'm not a big

6478
04:22:52,870 --> 04:22:51,600
fan of the military and if i knew

6479
04:22:55,189 --> 04:22:52,880
anything i'd tell you

6480
04:22:55,990 --> 04:22:55,199
i mentioned to the stan and stan says

6481
04:22:57,510 --> 04:22:56,000
well

6482
04:22:58,950 --> 04:22:57,520
we don't know how deep he was in the

6483
04:23:01,349 --> 04:22:58,960
cave and we don't know which way it's

6484
04:23:03,189 --> 04:23:01,359
facing and i said yeah but we do

6485
04:23:04,149 --> 04:23:03,199
they're looking for humanisation in the

6486
04:23:05,750 --> 04:23:04,159
cave

6487
04:23:07,030 --> 04:23:05,760
very deep into it because they got to

6488
04:23:07,990 --> 04:23:07,040
stay up front where they can get the

6489
04:23:10,710 --> 04:23:08,000
light

6490
04:23:12,710 --> 04:23:10,720
and it's facing the right direction

6491
04:23:15,110 --> 04:23:12,720
just just for those that are unaware so

6492
04:23:17,750 --> 04:23:15,120
you know the original roswell story is a

6493
04:23:19,910 --> 04:23:17,760
crash and then and stan's book comes out

6494
04:23:21,269 --> 04:23:19,920
and and talks about this second crash

6495
04:23:22,950 --> 04:23:21,279
site and

6496
04:23:25,030 --> 04:23:22,960
is it your position then that the second

6497
04:23:27,830 --> 04:23:25,040
crash site with the bodies and all these

6498
04:23:29,750 --> 04:23:27,840
tactile stories is not credible part of

6499
04:23:31,910 --> 04:23:29,760
the actual real story

6500
04:23:33,590 --> 04:23:31,920
the second crash diet site on the plains

6501
04:23:36,550 --> 04:23:33,600
of san agustin we don't believe is part

6502
04:23:38,870 --> 04:23:36,560
of the credible 1947 roswell story there

6503
04:23:40,950 --> 04:23:38,880
is a second crash site closer to roswell

6504
04:23:42,710 --> 04:23:40,960
where bodies were recovered according to

6505
04:23:45,030 --> 04:23:42,720
a number of people that we talked to

6506
04:23:46,870 --> 04:23:45,040
including chester lydle

6507
04:23:48,550 --> 04:23:46,880
who was um

6508
04:23:49,910 --> 04:23:48,560
a scientist of some renowned and helped

6509
04:23:51,750 --> 04:23:49,920
develop the atomic trigger for the

6510
04:23:54,149 --> 04:23:51,760
atomic bomb and was working on

6511
04:23:55,590 --> 04:23:54,159
hydrofolds hydrofoils and things like

6512
04:23:57,429 --> 04:23:55,600
that was a good friend of butch

6513
04:24:00,229 --> 04:23:57,439
blanchard

6514
04:24:02,149 --> 04:24:00,239
of the 509th bomb group i sometimes

6515
04:24:03,510 --> 04:24:02,159
forget that people aren't as meshed in

6516
04:24:05,030 --> 04:24:03,520
the minutia

6517
04:24:06,550 --> 04:24:05,040
yeah yeah

6518
04:24:08,149 --> 04:24:06,560
but butch blanchard was the the

6519
04:24:09,750 --> 04:24:08,159
commanding officer of the 509 bomb group

6520
04:24:11,590 --> 04:24:09,760
at the time and he was responsible for

6521
04:24:14,309 --> 04:24:11,600
all the recovery operations

6522
04:24:17,349 --> 04:24:14,319
and lytle told i i don't know why he

6523
04:24:19,349 --> 04:24:17,359
didn't tell don to me but he told

6524
04:24:21,590 --> 04:24:19,359
robert hastings

6525
04:24:24,229 --> 04:24:21,600
that he had been in

6526
04:24:25,750 --> 04:24:24,239
alaska with blanchard and while he was

6527
04:24:28,070 --> 04:24:25,760
there his wife

6528
04:24:30,710 --> 04:24:28,080
went into labor

6529
04:24:32,149 --> 04:24:30,720
in chicago and he had to get home and so

6530
04:24:33,830 --> 04:24:32,159
they got an airplane because now brian

6531
04:24:35,110 --> 04:24:33,840
blanchard was a general and he could say

6532
04:24:36,830 --> 04:24:35,120
i'd like an airplane to go to chicago

6533
04:24:39,930 --> 04:24:36,840
and i say yes sir when would you like to

6534
04:24:41,110 --> 04:24:39,940
leave um so they're on this trip to

6535
04:24:42,790 --> 04:24:41,120
[Music]

6536
04:24:44,229 --> 04:24:42,800
chicago on the airplane and blanche

6537
04:24:46,229 --> 04:24:44,239
tells him that there had been four

6538
04:24:47,189 --> 04:24:46,239
bodies recovered

6539
04:24:48,710 --> 04:24:47,199
uh

6540
04:24:50,309 --> 04:24:48,720
granted chester lytle didn't see the

6541
04:24:52,550 --> 04:24:50,319
bodies but he's getting the information

6542
04:24:53,510 --> 04:24:52,560
from from butch blanchard who should

6543
04:24:54,790 --> 04:24:53,520
have known

6544
04:24:56,229 --> 04:24:54,800
and we talked to a couple of other

6545
04:24:58,710 --> 04:24:56,239
people who said they had seen the bodies

6546
04:24:59,830 --> 04:24:58,720
as well but but the point is we were

6547
04:25:01,269 --> 04:24:59,840
able to

6548
04:25:02,550 --> 04:25:01,279
and i shouldn't say we at this point

6549
04:25:04,870 --> 04:25:02,560
because i think it was mainly worked by

6550
04:25:06,870 --> 04:25:04,880
tom carey and don schmidt that actually

6551
04:25:08,469 --> 04:25:06,880
located the specific site where the

6552
04:25:10,149 --> 04:25:08,479
bodies were found

6553
04:25:12,309 --> 04:25:10,159
closer to roswell although we had had

6554
04:25:15,110 --> 04:25:12,319
hints of it before that um

6555
04:25:16,710 --> 04:25:15,120
bill rickett who was the ncoic which is

6556
04:25:18,630 --> 04:25:16,720
the non-commissioned officer in charge

6557
04:25:20,710 --> 04:25:18,640
of the counterintelligence operation in

6558
04:25:22,950 --> 04:25:20,720
roswell in 1947

6559
04:25:25,510 --> 04:25:22,960
talked to us about going out to a crash

6560
04:25:27,510 --> 04:25:25,520
site where there was much closer to

6561
04:25:28,950 --> 04:25:27,520
roswell than the brazil site up near

6562
04:25:29,750 --> 04:25:28,960
corona

6563
04:25:31,510 --> 04:25:29,760
so

6564
04:25:35,110 --> 04:25:31,520
uh when we look at it i

6565
04:25:37,269 --> 04:25:35,120
i am not a fan of the

6566
04:25:39,590 --> 04:25:37,279
plains of san agustin crash

6567
04:25:41,590 --> 04:25:39,600
because everything really traces back to

6568
04:25:43,429 --> 04:25:41,600
barney barnett you don't have additional

6569
04:25:44,870 --> 04:25:43,439
witnesses it's bonnie barnett and that's

6570
04:25:46,550 --> 04:25:44,880
it you're done

6571
04:25:48,149 --> 04:25:46,560
but when we talk about these other sites

6572
04:25:49,830 --> 04:25:48,159
and things closer to roswell then we

6573
04:25:51,670 --> 04:25:49,840
then we pick up many many more witnesses

6574
04:25:53,189 --> 04:25:51,680
who had seen things like melvin brown

6575
04:25:55,590 --> 04:25:53,199
for example who was

6576
04:26:00,229 --> 04:25:55,600
part of the guard detail um

6577
04:26:01,510 --> 04:26:00,239
thomas gonzalez who was part of it

6578
04:26:03,349 --> 04:26:01,520
talking about what they had seen

6579
04:26:05,429 --> 04:26:03,359
gonzalez in fact spent

6580
04:26:07,670 --> 04:26:05,439
i guess years carving little wooden

6581
04:26:09,429 --> 04:26:07,680
figures of of the alien creatures i

6582
04:26:11,710 --> 04:26:09,439
think if you go to my

6583
04:26:13,189 --> 04:26:11,720
blog uh

6584
04:26:15,189 --> 04:26:13,199
kevinrando.blogspot.com i think there's

6585
04:26:17,030 --> 04:26:15,199
pictures of what he's carved up there

6586
04:26:18,309 --> 04:26:17,040
and if there's not there should be

6587
04:26:19,030 --> 04:26:18,319
um

6588
04:26:21,269 --> 04:26:19,040
but

6589
04:26:23,429 --> 04:26:21,279
uh so as we have much better evidence

6590
04:26:25,590 --> 04:26:23,439
for for roswell and we have very little

6591
04:26:26,550 --> 04:26:25,600
for over on the plains of san augustine

6592
04:26:28,630 --> 04:26:26,560
um

6593
04:26:30,790 --> 04:26:28,640
but i think when they started when they

6594
04:26:33,670 --> 04:26:30,800
started the only

6595
04:26:36,229 --> 04:26:33,680
story about bodies alien bodies

6596
04:26:39,349 --> 04:26:36,239
was that um

6597
04:26:41,189 --> 04:26:39,359
uh was the barney barnett tale and so

6598
04:26:43,110 --> 04:26:41,199
they they ran with that

6599
04:26:45,269 --> 04:26:43,120
and and i mean don and i did the same

6600
04:26:46,710 --> 04:26:45,279
thing in one respect we talked to a guy

6601
04:26:47,510 --> 04:26:46,720
named frank kaufman who was talking

6602
04:26:48,790 --> 04:26:47,520
about

6603
04:26:50,389 --> 04:26:48,800
being involved in the recovery of the

6604
04:26:51,750 --> 04:26:50,399
craft and the bodies and things like

6605
04:26:53,510 --> 04:26:51,760
that and what the bodies looked like and

6606
04:26:55,189 --> 04:26:53,520
all of these things and it turned out

6607
04:26:56,229 --> 04:26:55,199
that frank kaufman wasn't telling the

6608
04:27:00,149 --> 04:26:56,239
truth

6609
04:27:01,349 --> 04:27:00,159
he was as that other person said a liar

6610
04:27:03,830 --> 04:27:01,359
but

6611
04:27:05,429 --> 04:27:03,840
he the other person determined that

6612
04:27:06,790 --> 04:27:05,439
frank kaufman was a liar because he just

6613
04:27:08,550 --> 04:27:06,800
didn't believe the roswell involved in

6614
04:27:10,790 --> 04:27:08,560
alien spacecraft and ergo anybody had

6615
04:27:12,950 --> 04:27:10,800
suggested otherwise must be a liar

6616
04:27:15,110 --> 04:27:12,960
we actually been proved that the guy was

6617
04:27:16,710 --> 04:27:15,120
a liar so that

6618
04:27:18,309 --> 04:27:16,720
yeah and i was gonna i was gonna ask you

6619
04:27:20,070 --> 04:27:18,319
about that like i've heard some

6620
04:27:22,229 --> 04:27:20,080
criticism uh

6621
04:27:24,229 --> 04:27:22,239
leveled against you for what i feel is

6622
04:27:26,630 --> 04:27:24,239
the right thing to do because there has

6623
04:27:29,830 --> 04:27:26,640
been some things in a few of your books

6624
04:27:32,309 --> 04:27:29,840
that you put forth as factual

6625
04:27:34,469 --> 04:27:32,319
at one time and later sort of pulled

6626
04:27:35,750 --> 04:27:34,479
back from and said

6627
04:27:37,910 --> 04:27:35,760
it turns out that this person's

6628
04:27:41,590 --> 04:27:37,920
information was not very credible

6629
04:27:44,790 --> 04:27:41,600
and and i no longer agree with that but

6630
04:27:46,389 --> 04:27:44,800
isn't that a healthier position to take

6631
04:27:48,149 --> 04:27:46,399
to just admit that you were wrong

6632
04:27:50,389 --> 04:27:48,159
sometimes than to

6633
04:27:53,189 --> 04:27:50,399
double down on on stuff you know is is

6634
04:27:54,870 --> 04:27:53,199
not factual after the fact you know if

6635
04:27:57,189 --> 04:27:54,880
if we're looking for the truth if we're

6636
04:28:00,070 --> 04:27:57,199
seeking the truth so to speak

6637
04:28:01,910 --> 04:28:00,080
then um yeah you have to do that and and

6638
04:28:03,590 --> 04:28:01,920
what we what we did we had the

6639
04:28:05,030 --> 04:28:03,600
information we believed it to be true we

6640
04:28:07,590 --> 04:28:05,040
were told by other people you believe

6641
04:28:10,149 --> 04:28:07,600
what this guy said frank hoffman said we

6642
04:28:11,990 --> 04:28:10,159
had a picture of him in the 1947

6643
04:28:14,070 --> 04:28:12,000
yearbook receiving a medal from one of

6644
04:28:17,429 --> 04:28:14,080
the senior officers at the roswell army

6645
04:28:19,110 --> 04:28:17,439
airfield frank is in civilian clothing

6646
04:28:20,630 --> 04:28:19,120
but

6647
04:28:21,750 --> 04:28:20,640
in the middle i think the medal and i

6648
04:28:22,950 --> 04:28:21,760
can't really tell from the picture

6649
04:28:24,630 --> 04:28:22,960
because it's in black and white i think

6650
04:28:26,790 --> 04:28:24,640
it's world war ii victory medal which is

6651
04:28:27,990 --> 04:28:26,800
no big deal anybody who served during

6652
04:28:29,429 --> 04:28:28,000
the time of

6653
04:28:31,429 --> 04:28:29,439
world war ii got the world war ii

6654
04:28:32,710 --> 04:28:31,439
victory medal when the war was over

6655
04:28:34,950 --> 04:28:32,720
so it wasn't a big deal so i don't know

6656
04:28:36,389 --> 04:28:34,960
why they were presenting it to him

6657
04:28:37,830 --> 04:28:36,399
in that kind of an arena but we have a

6658
04:28:40,149 --> 04:28:37,840
picture of him so clearly he was

6659
04:28:42,790 --> 04:28:40,159
involved with the roswell army airfield

6660
04:28:44,710 --> 04:28:42,800
in july of 1947 so he could have been

6661
04:28:46,790 --> 04:28:44,720
what he what he claimed to be he showed

6662
04:28:48,149 --> 04:28:46,800
us his military separation documents

6663
04:28:49,590 --> 04:28:48,159
which showed he had been a master

6664
04:28:50,870 --> 04:28:49,600
sergeant and had been trained in

6665
04:28:52,950 --> 04:28:50,880
intelligence

6666
04:28:54,469 --> 04:28:52,960
he showed us other documents he had that

6667
04:28:57,670 --> 04:28:54,479
put him on a list of people that were

6668
04:28:59,429 --> 04:28:57,680
active granted access to specific

6669
04:29:01,189 --> 04:28:59,439
and things like that so we had this

6670
04:29:03,910 --> 04:29:01,199
documentation

6671
04:29:05,990 --> 04:29:03,920
which didn't mean that we didn't keep

6672
04:29:08,550 --> 04:29:06,000
looking and asking things after frank

6673
04:29:09,910 --> 04:29:08,560
died and this was after he died

6674
04:29:11,830 --> 04:29:09,920
mark chesney

6675
04:29:13,429 --> 04:29:11,840
mark rodinger and don schmidt were in

6676
04:29:15,269 --> 04:29:13,439
roswell and

6677
04:29:17,189 --> 04:29:15,279
juanita

6678
04:29:18,870 --> 04:29:17,199
kaufman frank's wife

6679
04:29:20,550 --> 04:29:18,880
asked them to go to some of his papers

6680
04:29:22,309 --> 04:29:20,560
because she wanted to make sure that

6681
04:29:24,550 --> 04:29:22,319
there were no outstanding contracts that

6682
04:29:26,710 --> 04:29:24,560
he was obligated to fulfill

6683
04:29:27,830 --> 04:29:26,720
dealing with if the appearances on tv

6684
04:29:29,349 --> 04:29:27,840
are like this and as they're going

6685
04:29:31,910 --> 04:29:29,359
through his desk

6686
04:29:34,229 --> 04:29:31,920
they found two old-fashioned typewriters

6687
04:29:35,429 --> 04:29:34,239
they found a stack of paper from world

6688
04:29:37,269 --> 04:29:35,439
war ii

6689
04:29:38,790 --> 04:29:37,279
they found his original discharge papers

6690
04:29:41,590 --> 04:29:38,800
which showed he'd been a staff sergeant

6691
04:29:43,910 --> 04:29:41,600
and been trained in administration well

6692
04:29:45,189 --> 04:29:43,920
then mark did some additional work

6693
04:29:46,710 --> 04:29:45,199
and

6694
04:29:48,870 --> 04:29:46,720
talking to some people who were at

6695
04:29:50,070 --> 04:29:48,880
roswell in 1947 learned exactly what he

6696
04:29:51,750 --> 04:29:50,080
was doing so we learned that frank

6697
04:29:54,070 --> 04:29:51,760
kaufman was not a credible credible

6698
04:29:57,269 --> 04:29:54,080
source well rather than trying to

6699
04:29:59,590 --> 04:29:57,279
bolster his credibility

6700
04:30:01,590 --> 04:29:59,600
i insisted they didn't want they didn't

6701
04:30:04,389 --> 04:30:01,600
want to release the information

6702
04:30:06,309 --> 04:30:04,399
um right away out of out of their

6703
04:30:07,830 --> 04:30:06,319
compassion for juanita

6704
04:30:10,389 --> 04:30:07,840
of kaufman because i mean now we're

6705
04:30:12,630 --> 04:30:10,399
going to call her husband's a liar

6706
04:30:15,110 --> 04:30:12,640
and he just passed away yeah and he just

6707
04:30:17,269 --> 04:30:15,120
passed away and i i

6708
04:30:19,349 --> 04:30:17,279
that was their compassionate attitude

6709
04:30:20,790 --> 04:30:19,359
i think it was 18 months later

6710
04:30:23,349 --> 04:30:20,800
i was doing a

6711
04:30:25,910 --> 04:30:23,359
i was involved in a documentary

6712
04:30:27,910 --> 04:30:25,920
and and they asked me about kaufman at

6713
04:30:29,670 --> 04:30:27,920
that point and i said yeah we don't find

6714
04:30:31,830 --> 04:30:29,680
this story credible anymore and here's

6715
04:30:33,510 --> 04:30:31,840
why and then mark rodicker and i did the

6716
04:30:35,030 --> 04:30:33,520
article for the international uf

6717
04:30:37,349 --> 04:30:35,040
reporter where we presented the

6718
04:30:38,950 --> 04:30:37,359
documentation and the other evidence

6719
04:30:41,349 --> 04:30:38,960
that showed that frank hoffman had not

6720
04:30:43,910 --> 04:30:41,359
been completely candid with us yeah he

6721
04:30:45,830 --> 04:30:43,920
had been a a sergeant during world war

6722
04:30:47,750 --> 04:30:45,840
ii but he'd been a staff sergeant not a

6723
04:30:49,590 --> 04:30:47,760
master sergeant he had no

6724
04:30:52,469 --> 04:30:49,600
training in intelligence

6725
04:30:54,149 --> 04:30:52,479
and so um you know the only the only

6726
04:30:56,469 --> 04:30:54,159
thing you can do is say wow we blew it

6727
04:30:58,630 --> 04:30:56,479
on that one but at that point i started

6728
04:31:00,870 --> 04:30:58,640
vetting people much more religiously and

6729
04:31:03,269 --> 04:31:00,880
rigidly than i had before i was doing a

6730
04:31:08,070 --> 04:31:06,070
crash when ufos fall from the sky

6731
04:31:11,110 --> 04:31:08,080
and what i wanted to do

6732
04:31:13,510 --> 04:31:11,120
i i was going to include the del rio ufo

6733
04:31:15,830 --> 04:31:13,520
crash from december 6 1950 and a guy

6734
04:31:19,030 --> 04:31:15,840
named robert willingham was the source

6735
04:31:19,830 --> 04:31:19,040
on that retired air force

6736
04:31:22,870 --> 04:31:19,840
um

6737
04:31:26,630 --> 04:31:22,880
colonel he said air force fighter pilot

6738
04:31:28,309 --> 04:31:26,640
and so i did my due diligence i wrote to

6739
04:31:30,630 --> 04:31:28,319
st louis where they keep the military

6740
04:31:31,510 --> 04:31:30,640
records of those who are retired

6741
04:31:37,750 --> 04:31:31,520
or

6742
04:31:40,070 --> 04:31:37,760
back and it showed that he had been a

6743
04:31:42,229 --> 04:31:40,080
low-ranking enlisted man he did he was

6744
04:31:43,830 --> 04:31:42,239
technically a veteran of world war ii he

6745
04:31:46,149 --> 04:31:43,840
had entered the entered the army in

6746
04:31:49,349 --> 04:31:46,159
december of 1945

6747
04:31:51,349 --> 04:31:49,359
the war wasn't officially declared over

6748
04:31:54,630 --> 04:31:51,359
until the middle of 1946 although the

6749
04:31:56,149 --> 04:31:54,640
shooting stopped in what august of 1945

6750
04:31:57,750 --> 04:31:56,159
so he's technically a veteran of world

6751
04:31:59,990 --> 04:31:57,760
war ii

6752
04:32:01,830 --> 04:32:00,000
but he had been an e4

6753
04:32:04,389 --> 04:32:01,840
no flight training or anything like that

6754
04:32:07,030 --> 04:32:04,399
i looked at something else

6755
04:32:09,349 --> 04:32:07,040
as a military pilot i know this

6756
04:32:11,189 --> 04:32:09,359
when we finished flight school

6757
04:32:13,590 --> 04:32:11,199
we were told we could stay an extra day

6758
04:32:16,229 --> 04:32:13,600
in well it would have been in at fort

6759
04:32:19,349 --> 04:32:16,239
rucker and the faa would give us a

6760
04:32:22,070 --> 04:32:19,359
written examination 50 questions on

6761
04:32:23,429 --> 04:32:22,080
um faa regulations we'd have a class

6762
04:32:24,630 --> 04:32:23,439
about it and then we'd take the test

6763
04:32:25,990 --> 04:32:24,640
type thing

6764
04:32:28,469 --> 04:32:26,000
and then we would be granted a

6765
04:32:31,670 --> 04:32:28,479
commercial pilot's license

6766
04:32:34,070 --> 04:32:31,680
and that's a good deal for one day right

6767
04:32:36,389 --> 04:32:34,080
yeah we've been gone from home for 13

6768
04:32:39,590 --> 04:32:36,399
months we're about to go to vietnam

6769
04:32:41,189 --> 04:32:39,600
it was adios muchacho i'm on my way home

6770
04:32:42,950 --> 04:32:41,199
uh we didn't do that

6771
04:32:44,950 --> 04:32:42,960
but but then once i got back from

6772
04:32:46,950 --> 04:32:44,960
vietnam and once um

6773
04:32:48,630 --> 04:32:46,960
i was at the university of iowa

6774
04:32:51,269 --> 04:32:48,640
and i was on summer vacation we were

6775
04:32:53,269 --> 04:32:51,279
going up to lake ogboji for the summer

6776
04:32:55,750 --> 04:32:53,279
i stopped at the faa office in des

6777
04:32:58,469 --> 04:32:55,760
moines iowa and took the test

6778
04:33:00,550 --> 04:32:58,479
and graduated and got my my

6779
04:33:02,389 --> 04:33:00,560
commercial pilot's license you had to

6780
04:33:04,390 --> 04:33:02,399
document you had to bring a dd4

6781
04:33:05,750 --> 04:33:04,400
form 214 in your flight record so they

6782
04:33:08,551 --> 04:33:05,760
could verify your flight records got

6783
04:33:10,789 --> 04:33:08,561
like 1200 hours of combat flight time so

6784
04:33:13,429 --> 04:33:10,799
the 200 hour um

6785
04:33:16,629 --> 04:33:13,439
requirement for flight experience uh

6786
04:33:18,629 --> 04:33:16,639
yeah you blew that out of the water

6787
04:33:20,310 --> 04:33:18,639
was probably right when we graduated

6788
04:33:22,230 --> 04:33:20,320
from high school i think i had 210 hours

6789
04:33:24,789 --> 04:33:22,240
of flight time so i bet met that met

6790
04:33:26,949 --> 04:33:24,799
that um criterion there was some poor

6791
04:33:28,949 --> 04:33:26,959
guy in there taking his private pilot's

6792
04:33:31,029 --> 04:33:28,959
license test for private clients he had

6793
04:33:33,189 --> 04:33:31,039
maps out he's charting courses and all

6794
04:33:37,590 --> 04:33:33,199
of this stuff i blow in i take the

6795
04:33:41,429 --> 04:33:39,510
i've got a

6796
04:33:42,869 --> 04:33:41,439
commercial pilot's license well this guy

6797
04:33:44,789 --> 04:33:42,879
willingham didn't have a commercial

6798
04:33:46,789 --> 04:33:44,799
pilot's license he had a private pilot's

6799
04:33:48,789 --> 04:33:46,799
license i could figure out no reason why

6800
04:33:50,070 --> 04:33:48,799
a military pilot would get a private

6801
04:33:52,150 --> 04:33:50,080
pilot's license unless of course he

6802
04:33:53,910 --> 04:33:52,160
wasn't a military pilot

6803
04:33:54,709 --> 04:33:53,920
well so that's interesting but see like

6804
04:33:56,789 --> 04:33:54,719
i said

6805
04:33:58,709 --> 04:33:56,799
i for one found it like a good thing

6806
04:34:01,109 --> 04:33:58,719
when you came out later and said this

6807
04:34:02,551 --> 04:34:01,119
person's story is no longer credible a

6808
04:34:04,949 --> 04:34:02,561
big another

6809
04:34:06,390 --> 04:34:04,959
another big controversy on my list of

6810
04:34:08,709 --> 04:34:06,400
questions here

6811
04:34:10,949 --> 04:34:08,719
and this is very hotly debated amongst

6812
04:34:14,551 --> 04:34:10,959
believers and skeptics

6813
04:34:16,789 --> 04:34:14,561
uh or really of everybody about roswell

6814
04:34:19,910 --> 04:34:16,799
and that is the debris switch

6815
04:34:22,070 --> 04:34:19,920
because i've got two people in that room

6816
04:34:24,869 --> 04:34:22,080
where they took the famous photos of the

6817
04:34:27,109 --> 04:34:24,879
of the so-called roswell debris

6818
04:34:29,590 --> 04:34:27,119
that later said

6819
04:34:31,510 --> 04:34:29,600
they switched the debris out kalkwarf

6820
04:34:33,189 --> 04:34:31,520
claims that the debris switch was an

6821
04:34:33,990 --> 04:34:33,199
invention of

6822
04:34:36,070 --> 04:34:34,000
uh

6823
04:34:38,551 --> 04:34:36,080
of stanton friedman that there was no

6824
04:34:40,629 --> 04:34:38,561
debris switch that was what they found

6825
04:34:42,949 --> 04:34:40,639
what they took the pictures of but these

6826
04:34:44,070 --> 04:34:42,959
two military gentlemen there marcel and

6827
04:34:45,349 --> 04:34:44,080
uh

6828
04:34:46,789 --> 04:34:45,359
the colonel

6829
04:34:49,670 --> 04:34:46,799
colonel dubose

6830
04:34:52,390 --> 04:34:49,680
later said and and i have like the

6831
04:34:54,551 --> 04:34:52,400
written quotes of what they said is that

6832
04:34:56,869 --> 04:34:54,561
that was not the same

6833
04:34:58,070 --> 04:34:56,879
the same debris that they picked up from

6834
04:34:59,349 --> 04:34:58,080
the ranch

6835
04:35:00,709 --> 04:34:59,359
well if you look at the pictures in the

6836
04:35:02,150 --> 04:35:00,719
roswell incident book they've been

6837
04:35:04,070 --> 04:35:02,160
cropped

6838
04:35:05,750 --> 04:35:04,080
and you look at the pictures and it says

6839
04:35:07,830 --> 04:35:05,760
this is the breed that they found there

6840
04:35:09,189 --> 04:35:07,840
well that's simply untrue because when

6841
04:35:11,510 --> 04:35:09,199
you see the full picture clearly it's a

6842
04:35:14,310 --> 04:35:11,520
weather balloon and a ray win radar

6843
04:35:15,990 --> 04:35:14,320
target that's been seriously degraded so

6844
04:35:18,390 --> 04:35:16,000
that's absolutely right that the

6845
04:35:19,990 --> 04:35:18,400
pictures show

6846
04:35:24,869 --> 04:35:20,000
stuff

6847
04:35:25,750 --> 04:35:24,879
brought from roswell and dubose said

6848
04:35:27,910 --> 04:35:25,760
um

6849
04:35:29,990 --> 04:35:27,920
the the debris was switched now the

6850
04:35:31,269 --> 04:35:30,000
interesting thing is i think that person

6851
04:35:33,189 --> 04:35:31,279
whose name i don't want to mention

6852
04:35:34,551 --> 04:35:33,199
kalkorov

6853
04:35:36,789 --> 04:35:34,561
oh boy

6854
04:35:39,269 --> 04:35:36,799
said that said that um

6855
04:35:41,429 --> 04:35:39,279
when stan found the full pictures he

6856
04:35:43,189 --> 04:35:41,439
talked to marcel about it and they came

6857
04:35:45,349 --> 04:35:43,199
up with this idea that the debris was

6858
04:35:46,949 --> 04:35:45,359
switched to keep the the story going

6859
04:35:48,709 --> 04:35:46,959
okay let's say that's true let's say

6860
04:35:50,709 --> 04:35:48,719
that that that happened

6861
04:35:52,310 --> 04:35:50,719
what's the motivation for dubose to say

6862
04:35:54,230 --> 04:35:52,320
it

6863
04:35:56,070 --> 04:35:54,240
there's no he's not he's not looking to

6864
04:35:59,269 --> 04:35:56,080
be on tv he's not looking to write a

6865
04:36:01,029 --> 04:35:59,279
book he's not looking for any kind of

6866
04:36:02,551 --> 04:36:01,039
fame or glory he

6867
04:36:04,150 --> 04:36:02,561
we went to him

6868
04:36:07,269 --> 04:36:04,160
to talk to him about it and he brought

6869
04:36:09,269 --> 04:36:07,279
it up about the debris being switched

6870
04:36:11,830 --> 04:36:09,279
so we've got two people who are absolute

6871
04:36:13,189 --> 04:36:11,840
absolutely that's the colorized version

6872
04:36:15,750 --> 04:36:13,199
of it which yeah actually i want to

6873
04:36:19,029 --> 04:36:15,760
thank one of my viewers here uh called

6874
04:36:21,830 --> 04:36:19,039
spooky who uh went and colorized the

6875
04:36:24,390 --> 04:36:21,840
original photos which i think

6876
04:36:26,551 --> 04:36:24,400
really is really

6877
04:36:28,390 --> 04:36:26,561
but make it look more realistic that

6878
04:36:30,789 --> 04:36:28,400
this was crazy

6879
04:36:33,510 --> 04:36:30,799
here's my problem with

6880
04:36:34,789 --> 04:36:33,520
my problem with the debris switch

6881
04:36:36,150 --> 04:36:34,799
people that don't believe there was a

6882
04:36:38,551 --> 04:36:36,160
debris switch

6883
04:36:41,590 --> 04:36:38,561
is is this these are intelligence

6884
04:36:43,429 --> 04:36:41,600
officers for the 509th bomb group the

6885
04:36:45,750 --> 04:36:43,439
only bomb group in the united states

6886
04:36:47,510 --> 04:36:45,760
that handles nuclear weapons

6887
04:36:50,230 --> 04:36:47,520
they have access to the greatest

6888
04:36:52,150 --> 04:36:50,240
technology in the united states they see

6889
04:36:53,990 --> 04:36:52,160
these weather balloons and experiments

6890
04:36:55,830 --> 04:36:54,000
all the time at the base

6891
04:36:57,109 --> 04:36:55,840
i think they would know what a weather

6892
04:37:00,629 --> 04:36:57,119
balloon is

6893
04:37:03,990 --> 04:37:00,639
thing i would like to ask you because my

6894
04:37:06,629 --> 04:37:04,000
father was a military man like you

6895
04:37:08,310 --> 04:37:06,639
if if if your commanding officer were to

6896
04:37:09,750 --> 04:37:08,320
order you you're going to stand there

6897
04:37:11,590 --> 04:37:09,760
when these photographers come in and

6898
04:37:12,789 --> 04:37:11,600
take keep your mouth shut and and

6899
04:37:15,269 --> 04:37:12,799
they're going to take these pictures

6900
04:37:17,510 --> 04:37:15,279
don't say a word you're gonna you're

6901
04:37:18,789 --> 04:37:17,520
gonna do that right you're just gonna do

6902
04:37:21,029 --> 04:37:18,799
what you're told

6903
04:37:22,551 --> 04:37:21,039
there's no motivation for marcel when

6904
04:37:24,629 --> 04:37:22,561
those pictures are taken to stand up and

6905
04:37:26,310 --> 04:37:24,639
say no no this isn't the stuff i brought

6906
04:37:27,269 --> 04:37:26,320
the general sitting right there telling

6907
04:37:31,109 --> 04:37:27,279
him

6908
04:37:33,109 --> 04:37:31,119
about what's going on

6909
04:37:34,551 --> 04:37:33,119
and just pose for the picture so that's

6910
04:37:37,029 --> 04:37:34,561
what happened

6911
04:37:38,551 --> 04:37:37,039
i have the story from um jay bond

6912
04:37:40,150 --> 04:37:38,561
johnson the guy that took the pictures

6913
04:37:43,349 --> 04:37:40,160
that we're showing here the those

6914
04:37:45,189 --> 04:37:43,359
pictures javon johnson i talked to him

6915
04:37:47,189 --> 04:37:45,199
four or five times and his story

6916
04:37:48,629 --> 04:37:47,199
radically changes that that that's the

6917
04:37:50,310 --> 04:37:48,639
real he finally says that's the real

6918
04:37:51,029 --> 04:37:50,320
debris that they brought from roswell no

6919
04:37:56,390 --> 04:37:51,039
it

6920
04:37:57,990 --> 04:37:56,400
he photographed was the

6921
04:37:59,349 --> 04:37:58,000
weather balloon and

6922
04:38:00,789 --> 04:37:59,359
what uh in the picture of general

6923
04:38:02,390 --> 04:38:00,799
raymond you can see the balloon back

6924
04:38:04,869 --> 04:38:02,400
there that the black

6925
04:38:05,990 --> 04:38:04,879
mass behind raymie is is the degraded

6926
04:38:07,910 --> 04:38:06,000
weather balloon

6927
04:38:10,709 --> 04:38:07,920
he realized that if all he took of

6928
04:38:12,709 --> 04:38:10,719
pictures was of this this debris this

6929
04:38:14,310 --> 04:38:12,719
from a from a ray went target then his

6930
04:38:15,910 --> 04:38:14,320
pictures aren't as important as if it

6931
04:38:17,750 --> 04:38:15,920
was the real stuff

6932
04:38:22,629 --> 04:38:17,760
uh the pictures are important because it

6933
04:38:27,670 --> 04:38:25,910
fort worth and on on july 8th 1947

6934
04:38:29,670 --> 04:38:27,680
talking about this specific thing and

6935
04:38:32,230 --> 04:38:29,680
this is the uh one of the pictures of

6936
04:38:33,670 --> 04:38:32,240
rainey he's holding the the memo that we

6937
04:38:35,109 --> 04:38:33,680
all have been trying to read for a

6938
04:38:36,949 --> 04:38:35,119
decade

6939
04:38:38,789 --> 04:38:36,959
yeah i was gonna that's on my list of

6940
04:38:40,629 --> 04:38:38,799
questions as well what do you what

6941
04:38:42,230 --> 04:38:40,639
here's here's the picture of the famous

6942
04:38:44,310 --> 04:38:42,240
and i have an even better

6943
04:38:45,590 --> 04:38:44,320
um

6944
04:38:47,510 --> 04:38:45,600
the other picture of rainy raymond

6945
04:38:50,230 --> 04:38:47,520
dubose i think is the one where he's got

6946
04:38:53,109 --> 04:38:50,240
the uh the memo as we see it as we try

6947
04:38:55,750 --> 04:38:53,119
to um yeah let me find i give you

6948
04:38:58,470 --> 04:38:55,760
another yeah i have some other photos

6949
04:39:00,949 --> 04:38:58,480
here of that i believe yeah but what do

6950
04:39:02,949 --> 04:39:00,959
you think of these people who claim that

6951
04:39:05,349 --> 04:39:02,959
they've decoded what's on the memo and

6952
04:39:07,029 --> 04:39:05,359
it talks about bodies and crash recovery

6953
04:39:09,029 --> 04:39:07,039
and things of that nature do you think

6954
04:39:09,990 --> 04:39:09,039
that it's credible

6955
04:39:17,750 --> 04:39:10,000
that

6956
04:39:18,869 --> 04:39:17,760
paper there's a digital technology now

6957
04:39:21,349 --> 04:39:18,879
there's a

6958
04:39:24,150 --> 04:39:21,359
i've looked at that thing literally for

6959
04:39:26,949 --> 04:39:24,160
decades i've been involved in

6960
04:39:29,590 --> 04:39:26,959
uh two two attempts to read it at the

6961
04:39:31,910 --> 04:39:29,600
university of texas at arlington

6962
04:39:33,429 --> 04:39:31,920
thanks again to spooky this is why it's

6963
04:39:35,590 --> 04:39:33,439
tantalizing like

6964
04:39:37,910 --> 04:39:35,600
you can almost you think it looks like

6965
04:39:40,150 --> 04:39:37,920
you could read that from this angle it

6966
04:39:43,030 --> 04:39:40,160
looks like you're readable and when you

6967
04:39:44,550 --> 04:39:43,040
get to um a blow up of just that i've

6968
04:39:46,070 --> 04:39:44,560
got an eight by ten blow up and you can

6969
04:39:47,830 --> 04:39:46,080
actually read some of the words you can

6970
04:39:49,910 --> 04:39:47,840
see fort worth texas you can see weather

6971
04:39:51,510 --> 04:39:49,920
balloons in that memo

6972
04:39:52,390 --> 04:39:51,520
but the way it's folded and the way it's

6973
04:39:54,230 --> 04:39:52,400
bent

6974
04:39:55,510 --> 04:39:54,240
it obscures some of it there's a line at

6975
04:39:57,830 --> 04:39:55,520
the very top

6976
04:40:00,868 --> 04:39:57,840
and i think david rudiak has decoded it

6977
04:40:03,430 --> 04:40:00,878
as saying victims of the wreck

6978
04:40:06,150 --> 04:40:03,440
um others have said

6979
04:40:08,628 --> 04:40:06,160
brought up other things um one of the

6980
04:40:09,510 --> 04:40:08,638
one of the um

6981
04:40:11,430 --> 04:40:09,520
people

6982
04:40:13,670 --> 04:40:11,440
that i was involved with with trying to

6983
04:40:15,670 --> 04:40:13,680
to scan the thing thought the word

6984
04:40:17,830 --> 04:40:15,680
instead of victims was viewing of the

6985
04:40:20,150 --> 04:40:17,840
wreck well that changes the the context

6986
04:40:22,470 --> 04:40:20,160
of the memo completely

6987
04:40:24,310 --> 04:40:22,480
the other thing is jay bond johnson at

6988
04:40:26,948 --> 04:40:24,320
first said that he brought the document

6989
04:40:28,830 --> 04:40:26,958
into the into raymie's office and it's

6990
04:40:31,270 --> 04:40:28,840
the teletype from the fort worth star

6991
04:40:33,030 --> 04:40:31,280
telegram and he handed it to raymie and

6992
04:40:34,310 --> 04:40:33,040
so remy's holding that in the picture

6993
04:40:37,270 --> 04:40:34,320
well if it's a teletype from the

6994
04:40:39,430 --> 04:40:37,280
newspaper then it's not that important

6995
04:40:41,750 --> 04:40:39,440
uh johnson later changed his story and

6996
04:40:43,350 --> 04:40:41,760
said no no i didn't i didn't bring that

6997
04:40:44,628 --> 04:40:43,360
in there it was on his desk and i handed

6998
04:40:45,910 --> 04:40:44,638
to him so he'd have something in his

6999
04:40:47,510 --> 04:40:45,920
hand and i'm thinking yeah that makes a

7000
04:40:50,708 --> 04:40:47,520
lot of sense

7001
04:40:52,550 --> 04:40:50,718
but um the last time we did that and it

7002
04:40:54,948 --> 04:40:52,560
was february of this year i was down

7003
04:40:57,350 --> 04:40:54,958
there with a number of people and what

7004
04:40:58,708 --> 04:40:57,360
was the the um

7005
04:41:00,470 --> 04:40:58,718
history's greatest mysteries on the

7006
04:41:03,190 --> 04:41:00,480
history channel they did the three-part

7007
04:41:05,350 --> 04:41:03,200
roswell segment and i was there a guy

7008
04:41:07,430 --> 04:41:05,360
named jane cooper brought in his

7009
04:41:09,350 --> 04:41:07,440
equipment and

7010
04:41:11,510 --> 04:41:09,360
now scanning the negative almost down to

7011
04:41:13,990 --> 04:41:11,520
the molecular level

7012
04:41:16,948 --> 04:41:14,000
and yes when you did a new high super

7013
04:41:18,948 --> 04:41:16,958
high quality scan of the actual oh it's

7014
04:41:20,708 --> 04:41:18,958
negative it took him hours to do it i

7015
04:41:22,310 --> 04:41:20,718
mean it's just it would take a picture

7016
04:41:24,230 --> 04:41:22,320
and take a picture and take a picture as

7017
04:41:26,550 --> 04:41:24,240
it moved across the whole thing taking

7018
04:41:28,628 --> 04:41:26,560
the picture and it and and

7019
04:41:30,628 --> 04:41:28,638
eventually it gets down to almost a

7020
04:41:33,670 --> 04:41:30,638
molecular level and then what he does is

7021
04:41:36,788 --> 04:41:33,680
he puts it all back together in layers

7022
04:41:38,550 --> 04:41:36,798
that tries to clarify it and

7023
04:41:40,550 --> 04:41:38,560
when he got it all done and we looked at

7024
04:41:42,310 --> 04:41:40,560
it on the screen i'm thinking oh my god

7025
04:41:43,990 --> 04:41:42,320
it doesn't say viewing it doesn't say

7026
04:41:45,110 --> 04:41:44,000
victims it's a there's a different word

7027
04:41:46,150 --> 04:41:45,120
up there now

7028
04:41:47,670 --> 04:41:46,160
um

7029
04:41:49,590 --> 04:41:47,680
but

7030
04:41:51,270 --> 04:41:49,600
that's the problem you can almost see

7031
04:41:53,590 --> 04:41:51,280
what you want to see i know tom carrey

7032
04:41:55,430 --> 04:41:53,600
said the moment he saw the

7033
04:41:57,110 --> 04:41:55,440
uh he he flashed the thing up on the

7034
04:41:58,470 --> 04:41:57,120
screen he was

7035
04:42:00,150 --> 04:41:58,480
the state section director in

7036
04:42:02,550 --> 04:42:00,160
pennsylvania and they had a meeting at

7037
04:42:04,550 --> 04:42:02,560
his house and he had a slide with it and

7038
04:42:05,750 --> 04:42:04,560
he threw it up on the on the wall and he

7039
04:42:07,590 --> 04:42:05,760
looked at he said it

7040
04:42:08,390 --> 04:42:07,600
jumped out and viewed victims of the

7041
04:42:10,390 --> 04:42:08,400
wreck

7042
04:42:12,070 --> 04:42:10,400
i can look at that and i can see view

7043
04:42:13,990 --> 04:42:12,080
viewing of the wreck i can see victims

7044
04:42:15,830 --> 04:42:14,000
of the wreck i can see where it's so

7045
04:42:17,030 --> 04:42:15,840
messed up you really can't tell and

7046
04:42:18,550 --> 04:42:17,040
you're getting down when you get down to

7047
04:42:21,430 --> 04:42:18,560
the molecular level then you get all

7048
04:42:24,150 --> 04:42:21,440
that other trash from a

7049
04:42:25,590 --> 04:42:24,160
regular old negative uh we don't have we

7050
04:42:27,030 --> 04:42:25,600
don't have that problem with the digital

7051
04:42:28,708 --> 04:42:27,040
cameras today that we have with that

7052
04:42:30,788 --> 04:42:28,718
negative and

7053
04:42:32,788 --> 04:42:30,798
a number of people said well if you if

7054
04:42:34,310 --> 04:42:32,798
if the photography just been just a foot

7055
04:42:36,948 --> 04:42:34,320
closer

7056
04:42:37,910 --> 04:42:36,958
you know and had angled it just a little

7057
04:42:39,830 --> 04:42:37,920
bit

7058
04:42:42,070 --> 04:42:39,840
differently we'd probably be able to

7059
04:42:43,910 --> 04:42:42,080
read it i think to the we're at the

7060
04:42:47,350 --> 04:42:43,920
point now on the raimi memo we're not

7061
04:42:49,510 --> 04:42:47,360
going to get a good read until they can

7062
04:42:51,750 --> 04:42:49,520
use artificial intelligence to put the

7063
04:42:54,550 --> 04:42:51,760
thing together and see what it says some

7064
04:42:56,150 --> 04:42:54,560
kind of computer access in that fashion

7065
04:42:57,510 --> 04:42:56,160
to see if we can figure out what it says

7066
04:42:59,670 --> 04:42:57,520
it may be to the point we're never going

7067
04:43:01,670 --> 04:42:59,680
to be able to read it so basically it's

7068
04:43:04,788 --> 04:43:01,680
very that whole thing is very

7069
04:43:07,270 --> 04:43:04,798
tantalizing but inconclusive absolutely

7070
04:43:09,030 --> 04:43:07,280
absolutely i i i know i know david

7071
04:43:11,110 --> 04:43:09,040
rudiak swears that it says victims of

7072
04:43:13,190 --> 04:43:11,120
the wreck and i know people say that and

7073
04:43:15,350 --> 04:43:13,200
i can see it when i look at it and i can

7074
04:43:17,350 --> 04:43:15,360
see it saying other stuff i i think that

7075
04:43:18,708 --> 04:43:17,360
what we where we are is that just

7076
04:43:20,708 --> 04:43:18,718
inconclusive

7077
04:43:22,708 --> 04:43:20,718
we just can't really tell

7078
04:43:24,470 --> 04:43:22,718
well that's very disappointing and i

7079
04:43:25,990 --> 04:43:24,480
wanted to ask you about

7080
04:43:28,310 --> 04:43:26,000
one other witness

7081
04:43:30,150 --> 04:43:28,320
and that is the mortician

7082
04:43:32,868 --> 04:43:30,160
witness because

7083
04:43:35,270 --> 04:43:32,878
he tells a really compelling story about

7084
04:43:37,110 --> 04:43:35,280
you know his nurse friends saw the uh

7085
04:43:40,150 --> 04:43:37,120
saw the bodies and

7086
04:43:42,550 --> 04:43:40,160
and was in on the autopsy but then we

7087
04:43:45,590 --> 04:43:42,560
can't find the woman or people did find

7088
04:43:47,430 --> 04:43:45,600
the woman uh you know

7089
04:43:51,270 --> 04:43:47,440
this is what is his name uh glenn dennis

7090
04:43:51,280 --> 04:43:54,470
too bad is not true

7091
04:43:59,110 --> 04:43:57,510
continuing to disappoint me kevin like i

7092
04:44:00,708 --> 04:43:59,120
want to believe that guy's story i

7093
04:44:03,270 --> 04:44:00,718
really do because that would be a

7094
04:44:05,110 --> 04:44:03,280
smoking gun like he saw it this girl saw

7095
04:44:07,910 --> 04:44:05,120
the bodies but then she mysteriously

7096
04:44:09,110 --> 04:44:07,920
vanished and died and you know

7097
04:44:10,708 --> 04:44:09,120
and and

7098
04:44:12,470 --> 04:44:10,718
we met with him

7099
04:44:15,270 --> 04:44:12,480
um

7100
04:44:17,030 --> 04:44:15,280
i think in 1990

7101
04:44:19,750 --> 04:44:17,040
and he sits down for an interview and he

7102
04:44:22,390 --> 04:44:19,760
tells us the story of the nurse that she

7103
04:44:24,470 --> 04:44:22,400
was called in and well he tells about

7104
04:44:26,470 --> 04:44:24,480
how he went out to um

7105
04:44:31,030 --> 04:44:26,480
he'd gotten a call for for

7106
04:44:33,750 --> 04:44:31,040
a child-sized cat cat just cactuses

7107
04:44:35,910 --> 04:44:33,760
yeah caskets yeah caskets that can be

7108
04:44:37,510 --> 04:44:35,920
hymetrically sealed

7109
04:44:38,628 --> 04:44:37,520
and

7110
04:44:40,830 --> 04:44:38,638
we're thinking

7111
04:44:43,030 --> 04:44:40,840
why do they have to be

7112
04:44:44,708 --> 04:44:43,040
child-sized you know that's a detail we

7113
04:44:46,708 --> 04:44:44,718
really don't need i mean a metrically

7114
04:44:49,430 --> 04:44:46,718
sealed casket would have done just fine

7115
04:44:50,948 --> 04:44:49,440
you don't need a child-sized one but he

7116
04:44:52,390 --> 04:44:50,958
said he said well that got him to

7117
04:44:54,230 --> 04:44:52,400
thinking of some kind of accident out of

7118
04:44:58,070 --> 04:44:54,240
the base so he goes out the base and he

7119
04:44:59,590 --> 04:44:58,080
gets out of his car whatever and as he's

7120
04:45:01,430 --> 04:44:59,600
walking and he looks in the back of the

7121
04:45:02,868 --> 04:45:01,440
ambulance and he sees some debris in

7122
04:45:04,948 --> 04:45:02,878
there and something that's got kind of

7123
04:45:06,470 --> 04:45:04,958
the top of a canoe on it like like the

7124
04:45:07,830 --> 04:45:06,480
front of a canoe

7125
04:45:08,948 --> 04:45:07,840
and he goes in there and she tells him

7126
04:45:10,470 --> 04:45:08,958
you got to get out of here going to get

7127
04:45:12,310 --> 04:45:10,480
in trouble and this

7128
04:45:15,190 --> 04:45:12,320
mean captain coming up and yells at him

7129
04:45:16,070 --> 04:45:15,200
and tells him to leave and says that uh

7130
04:45:17,750 --> 04:45:16,080
um

7131
04:45:19,190 --> 04:45:17,760
and dennis says well i'm a civilian you

7132
04:45:20,470 --> 04:45:19,200
can't do anything to me and i'm thinking

7133
04:45:21,670 --> 04:45:20,480
well that's a stupid thing to say

7134
04:45:23,590 --> 04:45:21,680
because you're on a military base you

7135
04:45:25,270 --> 04:45:23,600
want to see how fast they

7136
04:45:26,868 --> 04:45:25,280
all kinds of things to you while you're

7137
04:45:28,708 --> 04:45:26,878
on there

7138
04:45:30,310 --> 04:45:28,718
yeah do that as it may

7139
04:45:32,550 --> 04:45:30,320
um the captain said you'd be surprised

7140
04:45:34,628 --> 04:45:32,560
what i can do and the nco says you'll be

7141
04:45:36,708 --> 04:45:34,638
picking your bones out of the sand and

7142
04:45:38,390 --> 04:45:36,718
he says this nco is is a an

7143
04:45:40,470 --> 04:45:38,400
african-american fellow and i'm thinking

7144
04:45:42,150 --> 04:45:40,480
1947 i'm not sure they'd put up with

7145
04:45:43,270 --> 04:45:42,160
that kind of talk

7146
04:45:45,750 --> 04:45:43,280
from

7147
04:45:48,310 --> 04:45:45,760
an nco like that

7148
04:45:49,990 --> 04:45:48,320
but um so he leaves and then she meets

7149
04:45:51,910 --> 04:45:50,000
him and tells him about seeing the

7150
04:45:53,190 --> 04:45:51,920
bodies and all of this stuff and so

7151
04:45:54,470 --> 04:45:53,200
we're talking to him and i said well you

7152
04:45:57,510 --> 04:45:54,480
know we need the name and he said i'll

7153
04:45:59,110 --> 04:45:57,520
tell you the name but don't tell anybody

7154
04:46:01,430 --> 04:45:59,120
you know make your search for it but

7155
04:46:03,510 --> 04:46:01,440
don't tell anybody her name is naomi

7156
04:46:04,788 --> 04:46:03,520
self thinking okay

7157
04:46:07,110 --> 04:46:04,798
so

7158
04:46:08,708 --> 04:46:07,120
months later i'm talking to glenn dennis

7159
04:46:10,788 --> 04:46:08,718
about something on the phone and he

7160
04:46:12,390 --> 04:46:10,798
berating me for not finding naomi myself

7161
04:46:14,150 --> 04:46:12,400
he says i gave you the name why can't

7162
04:46:15,830 --> 04:46:14,160
you find her

7163
04:46:17,030 --> 04:46:15,840
and i said you know

7164
04:46:20,788 --> 04:46:17,040
we've been looking for a number of

7165
04:46:22,708 --> 04:46:20,798
people there's a guy named

7166
04:46:24,310 --> 04:46:22,718
well i'll just pick one out of the air

7167
04:46:25,750 --> 04:46:24,320
george schultz we've been looking for

7168
04:46:27,590 --> 04:46:25,760
him i said i talked to a guy by that

7169
04:46:29,430 --> 04:46:27,600
name today he was a major

7170
04:46:31,350 --> 04:46:29,440
in the uh army air forces but it's not

7171
04:46:33,510 --> 04:46:31,360
the right guy and dennis says oh i know

7172
04:46:35,750 --> 04:46:33,520
him he lives over in alamogordo or las

7173
04:46:37,590 --> 04:46:35,760
cruces over in las cruces and lo and

7174
04:46:38,868 --> 04:46:37,600
behold that's the right guy

7175
04:46:40,628 --> 04:46:38,878
but the point of the story is glenn

7176
04:46:42,550 --> 04:46:40,638
dennis is yelling at me because i have

7177
04:46:44,788 --> 04:46:42,560
not found his nurse i've just now found

7178
04:46:46,390 --> 04:46:44,798
this other guy by accident but i haven't

7179
04:46:49,670 --> 04:46:46,400
found his nurse

7180
04:46:51,190 --> 04:46:49,680
a guy named victor golubik

7181
04:46:53,030 --> 04:46:51,200
took an interest in the nurse i tried to

7182
04:46:54,948 --> 04:46:53,040
get the um

7183
04:46:56,788 --> 04:46:54,958
the um

7184
04:47:03,750 --> 04:46:56,798
daily

7185
04:47:05,190 --> 04:47:03,760
report so every squadron on the basis

7186
04:47:06,550 --> 04:47:05,200
every unit on the base would fill out a

7187
04:47:07,590 --> 04:47:06,560
daily report and tell you who wasn't

7188
04:47:10,948 --> 04:47:07,600
sick

7189
04:47:12,708 --> 04:47:10,958
who had joined the unit who'd left the

7190
04:47:14,628 --> 04:47:12,718
unit so they could account everybody

7191
04:47:16,070 --> 04:47:14,638
everybody names appear in these lists

7192
04:47:17,510 --> 04:47:16,080
and we found a number of people's serial

7193
04:47:19,110 --> 04:47:17,520
numbers on those so we could get their

7194
04:47:21,030 --> 04:47:19,120
records and find out

7195
04:47:23,350 --> 04:47:21,040
exactly what we needed to know

7196
04:47:26,150 --> 04:47:23,360
and naomi self never appeared there

7197
04:47:28,708 --> 04:47:26,160
but i got the medical medical units

7198
04:47:30,708 --> 04:47:28,718
i i requested the medical units but i

7199
04:47:32,150 --> 04:47:30,718
got the hhc at the headquarters and so

7200
04:47:34,948 --> 04:47:32,160
it didn't help and i mentioned that to

7201
04:47:35,990 --> 04:47:34,958
gojobic well he managed to get the um

7202
04:47:38,868 --> 04:47:36,000
the

7203
04:47:40,190 --> 04:47:38,878
morning reports from from um

7204
04:47:42,110 --> 04:47:40,200
the beginning of

7205
04:47:45,110 --> 04:47:42,120
1947 through

7206
04:47:46,868 --> 04:47:45,120
1948 so he had a whole stack of them her

7207
04:47:49,030 --> 04:47:46,878
name never appears

7208
04:47:51,190 --> 04:47:49,040
so vic confronts dennis with this and

7209
04:47:52,868 --> 04:47:51,200
says no nurse well he went through a lot

7210
04:47:55,510 --> 04:47:52,878
of other things to do he found a listing

7211
04:47:56,948 --> 04:47:55,520
of all army nurses 125 000 women who've

7212
04:47:59,670 --> 04:47:56,958
been army nurses

7213
04:48:01,350 --> 04:47:59,680
naomi self didn't appear named

7214
04:48:03,190 --> 04:48:01,360
listen wow you gotta admire his

7215
04:48:05,110 --> 04:48:03,200
dedication

7216
04:48:06,628 --> 04:48:05,120
he went he went and found all the names

7217
04:48:08,868 --> 04:48:06,638
of all the nurses working in the

7218
04:48:10,830 --> 04:48:08,878
civilian hospitals in roswell to see if

7219
04:48:12,788 --> 04:48:10,840
maybe she had been a civilian

7220
04:48:14,948 --> 04:48:12,798
nurse no

7221
04:48:16,628 --> 04:48:14,958
no so vic

7222
04:48:19,510 --> 04:48:16,638
confronts him with this

7223
04:48:20,628 --> 04:48:19,520
and glenn dennis says well i told you i

7224
04:48:22,310 --> 04:48:20,638
told him i'd give him a name but it

7225
04:48:24,550 --> 04:48:22,320
wouldn't be the right name her name

7226
04:48:26,948 --> 04:48:24,560
wasn't naomi self so he's now set us

7227
04:48:29,270 --> 04:48:26,958
back to ground zero but i remember

7228
04:48:30,470 --> 04:48:29,280
exactly what he told us don't tell

7229
04:48:32,230 --> 04:48:30,480
anybody what the name was then he

7230
04:48:33,830 --> 04:48:32,240
proceeded to tell everybody under the

7231
04:48:35,110 --> 04:48:33,840
sun what her name was including philip

7232
04:48:35,910 --> 04:48:35,120
class

7233
04:48:36,868 --> 04:48:35,920
so

7234
04:48:40,390 --> 04:48:36,878
um

7235
04:48:41,910 --> 04:48:40,400
that kind of soured me on glenn dennis

7236
04:48:43,910 --> 04:48:41,920
and then we found some other things out

7237
04:48:46,628 --> 04:48:43,920
that he wasn't a mortician in roswell in

7238
04:48:48,628 --> 04:48:46,638
1947 he was an embalmer

7239
04:48:50,708 --> 04:48:48,638
which means he worked in the mortuary

7240
04:48:51,910 --> 04:48:50,718
but he wasn't the mortician

7241
04:48:53,910 --> 04:48:51,920
and

7242
04:48:55,670 --> 04:48:53,920
he was having this this affair with this

7243
04:48:57,910 --> 04:48:55,680
nurse

7244
04:48:59,990 --> 04:48:57,920
sort of an affair his wife was pregnant

7245
04:49:01,350 --> 04:49:00,000
pregnant in 1947 we thought well that's

7246
04:49:03,510 --> 04:49:01,360
pretty crappy

7247
04:49:04,708 --> 04:49:03,520
uh he said she was killed in an airplane

7248
04:49:05,830 --> 04:49:04,718
accident in europe she'd been

7249
04:49:07,510 --> 04:49:05,840
transferred to europe but she was killed

7250
04:49:08,390 --> 04:49:07,520
in an airplane accident with five other

7251
04:49:11,190 --> 04:49:08,400
nurses

7252
04:49:15,430 --> 04:49:11,200
i went through the new york times

7253
04:49:17,110 --> 04:49:15,440
from july of 1947 to like 1953

7254
04:49:19,830 --> 04:49:17,120
there's a big index now you can do it

7255
04:49:21,510 --> 04:49:19,840
online and do it in seconds

7256
04:49:23,910 --> 04:49:21,520
it took me hours

7257
04:49:25,350 --> 04:49:23,920
but they would break down the

7258
04:49:27,190 --> 04:49:25,360
the various news stories including

7259
04:49:29,670 --> 04:49:27,200
aircraft accidents and i went through

7260
04:49:30,868 --> 04:49:29,680
their their indexes for

7261
04:49:31,990 --> 04:49:30,878
literally

7262
04:49:33,590 --> 04:49:32,000
years

7263
04:49:35,670 --> 04:49:33,600
and could not find an accident that

7264
04:49:38,310 --> 04:49:35,680
killed any killed five army nurses at

7265
04:49:39,830 --> 04:49:38,320
one time don berliner

7266
04:49:41,830 --> 04:49:39,840
uh went through the stars and stripes

7267
04:49:44,150 --> 04:49:41,840
the stars and stripes is a newspaper

7268
04:49:46,070 --> 04:49:44,160
that's printed overseas for the for the

7269
04:49:48,708 --> 04:49:46,080
the military personnel stationed

7270
04:49:50,868 --> 04:49:48,718
overseas the big advantage of the stars

7271
04:49:53,110 --> 04:49:50,878
and stripes in

7272
04:49:54,868 --> 04:49:53,120
um yes i crashed for those who can read

7273
04:49:56,948 --> 04:49:54,878
body language i scratched my nose it

7274
04:50:01,030 --> 04:49:56,958
itched i'm sorry it didn't mean i was

7275
04:50:06,150 --> 04:50:03,910
there's a very conspiratorial crowd here

7276
04:50:10,070 --> 04:50:06,160
captain i know it's just i'm sorry

7277
04:50:14,310 --> 04:50:12,628
i just we saw kel we we saw stars and

7278
04:50:16,070 --> 04:50:14,320
stripes in in

7279
04:50:17,670 --> 04:50:16,080
in iraq and i was always

7280
04:50:18,390 --> 04:50:17,680
looking for because calvin and hobbes

7281
04:50:20,470 --> 04:50:18,400
was

7282
04:50:23,670 --> 04:50:20,480
one of the comics they printed oh yeah i

7283
04:50:24,868 --> 04:50:23,680
grew up with that sure yeah so uh um

7284
04:50:26,310 --> 04:50:24,878
but everything we tried to check out

7285
04:50:27,510 --> 04:50:26,320
with glenn dennis didn't check out we

7286
04:50:29,590 --> 04:50:27,520
couldn't find the nurse we couldn't find

7287
04:50:31,750 --> 04:50:29,600
it by the name he lied to us about this

7288
04:50:33,590 --> 04:50:31,760
he lied to us about that the nurse

7289
04:50:35,350 --> 04:50:33,600
didn't get killed in a trap in an

7290
04:50:36,868 --> 04:50:35,360
aircraft accident all of that sort of

7291
04:50:39,510 --> 04:50:36,878
thing so no i don't think glenn dennis

7292
04:50:40,948 --> 04:50:39,520
was telling the truth tom carey

7293
04:50:43,110 --> 04:50:40,958
believes glenn dennis is telling the

7294
04:50:44,948 --> 04:50:43,120
truth and i think don kind of leans

7295
04:50:46,230 --> 04:50:44,958
toward glenn dennis being somewhat

7296
04:50:48,230 --> 04:50:46,240
reliable but he may have gotten the

7297
04:50:50,550 --> 04:50:48,240
story from somebody else meaning one of

7298
04:50:52,550 --> 04:50:50,560
the people who worked at the ballard

7299
04:50:54,708 --> 04:50:52,560
funeral home in roswell at the time as

7300
04:50:56,788 --> 04:50:54,718
did glenn dennis uh was the guy who

7301
04:50:59,110 --> 04:50:56,798
actually got the phone calls

7302
04:51:01,750 --> 04:50:59,120
but the the nurse didn't didn't exist i

7303
04:51:04,550 --> 04:51:01,760
think tom now in their latest book

7304
04:51:06,628 --> 04:51:04,560
and i don't know what the um

7305
04:51:09,030 --> 04:51:06,638
i see that message

7306
04:51:10,310 --> 04:51:09,040
secret knows cabal message

7307
04:51:12,310 --> 04:51:10,320
um

7308
04:51:15,190 --> 04:51:12,320
names a different nurse who worked in a

7309
04:51:17,110 --> 04:51:15,200
clinic in in roswell in 1940 as of being

7310
04:51:18,310 --> 04:51:17,120
the real nurse but if you if you're

7311
04:51:20,150 --> 04:51:18,320
dealing with something like that you're

7312
04:51:21,110 --> 04:51:20,160
not going to bring a civilian nurse in

7313
04:51:22,628 --> 04:51:21,120
there you're going to deal with the

7314
04:51:24,948 --> 04:51:22,638
people that are on the base and you can

7315
04:51:26,550 --> 04:51:24,958
control who they are and what they say

7316
04:51:29,030 --> 04:51:26,560
so i'm sorry i just don't believe the

7317
04:51:30,948 --> 04:51:29,040
glen dennis story i don't believe the

7318
04:51:32,550 --> 04:51:30,958
barney barnett story i do not believe

7319
04:51:34,708 --> 04:51:32,560
the gerald anderson story i do not

7320
04:51:35,910 --> 04:51:34,718
believe the frank hoffman story on the

7321
04:51:38,070 --> 04:51:35,920
other hand

7322
04:51:39,990 --> 04:51:38,080
i certainly believe the edwin

7323
04:51:42,230 --> 04:51:40,000
easley story edwin easley was the base

7324
04:51:43,590 --> 04:51:42,240
provost marshal in 1947 baseball

7325
04:51:45,270 --> 04:51:43,600
marshall is the same as the chief of

7326
04:51:47,350 --> 04:51:45,280
police he

7327
04:51:48,708 --> 04:51:47,360
was in charge of two two companies

7328
04:51:51,590 --> 04:51:48,718
actually a company a squadron he was in

7329
04:51:53,750 --> 04:51:51,600
charge of the mp squad uh mp company and

7330
04:51:56,390 --> 04:51:53,760
the 390th air service squadron i think

7331
04:51:58,550 --> 04:51:56,400
it was which is also specialist and the

7332
04:52:00,150 --> 04:51:58,560
mps patrolled the town uh the air

7333
04:52:02,390 --> 04:52:00,160
specialist squadron was

7334
04:52:04,310 --> 04:52:02,400
was involved with security on the base

7335
04:52:05,430 --> 04:52:04,320
so he was in charge of that and he told

7336
04:52:07,270 --> 04:52:05,440
me

7337
04:52:08,708 --> 04:52:07,280
um

7338
04:52:10,070 --> 04:52:08,718
in a discussion he would he was always

7339
04:52:11,990 --> 04:52:10,080
very careful what he would say to me

7340
04:52:13,990 --> 04:52:12,000
because he was worried about

7341
04:52:15,990 --> 04:52:14,000
the oath he had taken back in 1947 he

7342
04:52:17,270 --> 04:52:16,000
didn't want to violate the healthy taken

7343
04:52:18,868 --> 04:52:17,280
so he's careful what he said he would

7344
04:52:21,590 --> 04:52:18,878
say i can't talk to you about that i'm

7345
04:52:23,110 --> 04:52:21,600
sorry i can't talk to you about that

7346
04:52:25,430 --> 04:52:23,120
and i'm on the phone with him one day

7347
04:52:27,750 --> 04:52:25,440
and i said are we following the right

7348
04:52:28,948 --> 04:52:27,760
path he said what do you mean

7349
04:52:30,708 --> 04:52:28,958
and i said we think it was

7350
04:52:32,868 --> 04:52:30,718
extraterrestrial and he said well let me

7351
04:52:34,788 --> 04:52:32,878
put it this way it's not the wrong path

7352
04:52:36,948 --> 04:52:34,798
so there's a guy

7353
04:52:39,270 --> 04:52:36,958
primary staff member senior officer at

7354
04:52:41,750 --> 04:52:39,280
roswell in 1947 i'm the only person that

7355
04:52:43,590 --> 04:52:41,760
ever talked to him

7356
04:52:45,750 --> 04:52:43,600
um

7357
04:52:47,990 --> 04:52:45,760
and he told me it was the right path and

7358
04:52:50,788 --> 04:52:48,000
was extraterrestrial he told family

7359
04:52:53,590 --> 04:52:50,798
members as as he was dying of cancer

7360
04:52:54,708 --> 04:52:53,600
about the creatures oh the creatures

7361
04:52:55,990 --> 04:52:54,718
um

7362
04:52:57,910 --> 04:52:56,000
when that guy's name i don't want to

7363
04:52:59,270 --> 04:52:57,920
mention cal korff

7364
04:53:01,590 --> 04:52:59,280
attacks

7365
04:53:02,708 --> 04:53:01,600
but you keep mentioning them yeah i know

7366
04:53:03,830 --> 04:53:02,718
because i want people to know what the

7367
04:53:09,270 --> 04:53:03,840
hell i'm talking about i don't know

7368
04:53:13,350 --> 04:53:11,350
talked about him in his book he actually

7369
04:53:14,390 --> 04:53:13,360
confused a testimony of three different

7370
04:53:16,470 --> 04:53:14,400
people

7371
04:53:18,788 --> 04:53:16,480
when he was trying to to denigrate the

7372
04:53:23,750 --> 04:53:18,798
the story told but the information from

7373
04:53:28,390 --> 04:53:23,760
from edwin easley uh curry holden um

7374
04:53:32,948 --> 04:53:31,030
and and of course um edwin easley can oh

7375
04:53:35,110 --> 04:53:32,958
i think it was kevin cavett

7376
04:53:37,030 --> 04:53:35,120
holden and easily he confused the

7377
04:53:39,750 --> 04:53:37,040
testimonies given by those three people

7378
04:53:40,830 --> 04:53:39,760
and created one massive

7379
04:53:43,190 --> 04:53:40,840
uh

7380
04:53:45,430 --> 04:53:43,200
conglomeration it was filled with wholly

7381
04:53:47,510 --> 04:53:45,440
inaccurate information so when he says

7382
04:53:49,110 --> 04:53:47,520
well we've discredited edwin easley he

7383
04:53:51,670 --> 04:53:49,120
hasn't done that he's just

7384
04:53:53,590 --> 04:53:51,680
credited himself in that in that fashion

7385
04:53:54,868 --> 04:53:53,600
and i mean i can go on like this

7386
04:53:57,270 --> 04:53:54,878
i'll i'll tell you another story because

7387
04:53:58,788 --> 04:53:57,280
it's kind of funny korff

7388
04:54:00,948 --> 04:53:58,798
um

7389
04:54:03,190 --> 04:54:00,958
was uh reading from my book he used to

7390
04:54:04,390 --> 04:54:03,200
do these the scandals of kevin randle on

7391
04:54:06,470 --> 04:54:04,400
youtube i don't know if you can find him

7392
04:54:08,708 --> 04:54:06,480
anymore or not

7393
04:54:12,470 --> 04:54:08,718
and he's reading from the book

7394
04:54:14,708 --> 04:54:12,480
uh they think the ufo crash at roswell

7395
04:54:16,470 --> 04:54:14,718
marcel come

7396
04:54:19,750 --> 04:54:16,480
to a son

7397
04:54:20,868 --> 04:54:19,760
and it is the son says what is it and

7398
04:54:22,390 --> 04:54:20,878
and

7399
04:54:25,110 --> 04:54:22,400
jesse senior says well it's a flying

7400
04:54:27,590 --> 04:54:25,120
saucer and car says no didn't use the

7401
04:54:30,470 --> 04:54:27,600
term flying saucer in 1947 they were

7402
04:54:32,708 --> 04:54:30,480
calling them flying discs

7403
04:54:35,590 --> 04:54:32,718
i'm thinking if you look at the roswell

7404
04:54:39,190 --> 04:54:35,600
daily record for july 8th 1947

7405
04:54:40,708 --> 04:54:39,200
it says raaf roswell army airfield finds

7406
04:54:42,788 --> 04:54:40,718
flying saucer

7407
04:54:44,550 --> 04:54:42,798
in roswell region i mean it's in the

7408
04:54:45,590 --> 04:54:44,560
newspaper for crying out loud on the

7409
04:54:47,430 --> 04:54:45,600
very day

7410
04:54:50,070 --> 04:54:47,440
the next day it says general raymie

7411
04:54:52,310 --> 04:54:50,080
empties roswell saucer

7412
04:54:53,910 --> 04:54:52,320
um so they use the term so he's there

7413
04:54:55,990 --> 04:54:53,920
saying they didn't use the term flying

7414
04:54:58,708 --> 04:54:56,000
saucer

7415
04:55:00,628 --> 04:54:58,718
and i i i on my blog they they kevin

7416
04:55:01,830 --> 04:55:00,638
randle you type in kalkorf's name and

7417
04:55:03,830 --> 04:55:01,840
you'll come up to a number of stories

7418
04:55:05,430 --> 04:55:03,840
where he and i argue about stuff

7419
04:55:07,590 --> 04:55:05,440
but one of them i did was here are the

7420
04:55:09,110 --> 04:55:07,600
newspapers from july of 1947 with the

7421
04:55:10,470 --> 04:55:09,120
term flying saucer and then used four

7422
04:55:13,270 --> 04:55:10,480
examples

7423
04:55:14,948 --> 04:55:13,280
so um you know he did a lot of stuff

7424
04:55:16,708 --> 04:55:14,958
like that in the book

7425
04:55:18,788 --> 04:55:16,718
and says well i discredited this and i

7426
04:55:20,550 --> 04:55:18,798
discredited that no you didn't

7427
04:55:22,310 --> 04:55:20,560
um you you

7428
04:55:24,230 --> 04:55:22,320
think in your own brain you did but you

7429
04:55:26,070 --> 04:55:24,240
certainly did not

7430
04:55:28,470 --> 04:55:26,080
and i was also wanted to ask you on the

7431
04:55:29,350 --> 04:55:28,480
subject of bodies is there other less

7432
04:55:31,350 --> 04:55:29,360
known

7433
04:55:33,590 --> 04:55:31,360
uh people that you've interviewed that

7434
04:55:35,670 --> 04:55:33,600
talked about bodies or autopsies or

7435
04:55:37,670 --> 04:55:35,680
where the bodies were taken

7436
04:55:40,868 --> 04:55:37,680
uh that you're aware of that you did

7437
04:55:43,430 --> 04:55:40,878
find credible in so far there's melvin

7438
04:55:46,230 --> 04:55:43,440
brown there's melvin brown

7439
04:55:47,510 --> 04:55:46,240
who was an nco um he was a cook at

7440
04:55:50,070 --> 04:55:47,520
roswell but if you've been in the

7441
04:55:52,070 --> 04:55:50,080
military you know that when you suddenly

7442
04:55:53,510 --> 04:55:52,080
have well everybody goes through basic

7443
04:55:54,628 --> 04:55:53,520
training in the basic training you learn

7444
04:55:55,330 --> 04:55:54,638
a number of things like how to stand

7445
04:55:56,868 --> 04:55:55,340
guard duty

7446
04:55:58,868 --> 04:55:56,878
[Music]

7447
04:56:00,868 --> 04:55:58,878
yeah a lot of that i'm sure yeah yeah so

7448
04:56:02,788 --> 04:56:00,878
when you when um

7449
04:56:04,708 --> 04:56:02,798
you got a lot of people you need to

7450
04:56:06,390 --> 04:56:04,718
deploy into some kind of an area for

7451
04:56:09,430 --> 04:56:06,400
whatever reason you grab everybody you

7452
04:56:11,750 --> 04:56:09,440
can find and send them out there

7453
04:56:14,230 --> 04:56:11,760
um

7454
04:56:15,590 --> 04:56:14,240
i saw that note a cow would lose because

7455
04:56:17,510 --> 04:56:15,600
i'm actually trained in the use of

7456
04:56:19,350 --> 04:56:17,520
firearms hey just just so you know

7457
04:56:20,628 --> 04:56:19,360
everybody's already asking me if you

7458
04:56:23,030 --> 04:56:20,638
guys are going to be on the show

7459
04:56:24,948 --> 04:56:23,040
together and here's what i'll say about

7460
04:56:27,430 --> 04:56:24,958
that if you guys will agree to it i'll

7461
04:56:30,708 --> 04:56:27,440
do it but i think my only task would be

7462
04:56:31,990 --> 04:56:30,718
to keep time because i don't think that

7463
04:56:34,070 --> 04:56:32,000
you know like

7464
04:56:36,230 --> 04:56:34,080
that kind of debate would be great but i

7465
04:56:38,390 --> 04:56:36,240
think like you guys would just talk over

7466
04:56:41,670 --> 04:56:38,400
each other and so i i guess i could just

7467
04:56:43,350 --> 04:56:41,680
referee and you know keep a timer

7468
04:56:45,030 --> 04:56:43,360
you have five minutes you have five

7469
04:56:46,230 --> 04:56:45,040
minutes you know here's the problem with

7470
04:56:47,190 --> 04:56:46,240
that

7471
04:56:50,550 --> 04:56:47,200
back

7472
04:56:52,628 --> 04:56:50,560
a decade and a half ago

7473
04:56:54,708 --> 04:56:52,638
um rob mcconnell at the exxon broadcast

7474
04:56:56,470 --> 04:56:54,718
network

7475
04:56:57,510 --> 04:56:56,480
would have kalkorf on his show once a

7476
04:56:59,590 --> 04:56:57,520
week

7477
04:57:01,350 --> 04:56:59,600
and i learned through second or third

7478
04:57:03,750 --> 04:57:01,360
hand people said you know cal korff is

7479
04:57:05,670 --> 04:57:03,760
challenging you to a debate

7480
04:57:08,230 --> 04:57:05,680
and and he's saying that you refuse to

7481
04:57:10,310 --> 04:57:08,240
debate him about roswell on this show i

7482
04:57:11,910 --> 04:57:10,320
i've never heard about it

7483
04:57:13,430 --> 04:57:11,920
uh so rob mccaughey i got in contact

7484
04:57:14,948 --> 04:57:13,440
with rob mcconnell and we set up a

7485
04:57:16,070 --> 04:57:14,958
debate we were going to do a debate it

7486
04:57:18,708 --> 04:57:16,080
was going to be a three-hour debate i

7487
04:57:20,868 --> 04:57:18,718
would have an hour corf would have an

7488
04:57:23,590 --> 04:57:20,878
hour and then the two of us would be on

7489
04:57:24,628 --> 04:57:23,600
for the last hour talking about it

7490
04:57:26,788 --> 04:57:24,638
and

7491
04:57:28,310 --> 04:57:26,798
i'm making notes of what i want to say

7492
04:57:29,830 --> 04:57:28,320
and i've got notes here and i'm making

7493
04:57:31,430 --> 04:57:29,840
pulling all the information out so i've

7494
04:57:34,868 --> 04:57:31,440
got it at my hand so i don't have to say

7495
04:57:37,750 --> 04:57:34,878
oh the name escapes me at the moment

7496
04:57:39,110 --> 04:57:37,760
at my fingertips and uh my wife keeps

7497
04:57:41,110 --> 04:57:39,120
saying what are you and rob going to

7498
04:57:42,310 --> 04:57:41,120
talk about for three hours

7499
04:57:44,230 --> 04:57:42,320
she doesn't believe corp is going to

7500
04:57:45,270 --> 04:57:44,240
show up

7501
04:57:47,270 --> 04:57:45,280
and

7502
04:57:49,110 --> 04:57:47,280
we get down we're within hours of the

7503
04:57:50,708 --> 04:57:49,120
debate starting four or five hours of

7504
04:57:53,670 --> 04:57:50,718
the debate starting and i get a note

7505
04:57:56,230 --> 04:57:53,680
from rob mcconnell cal has pulled out

7506
04:57:57,830 --> 04:57:56,240
he's now off on some super super super

7507
04:57:59,590 --> 04:57:57,840
secret terrorist mission and he can't

7508
04:58:00,470 --> 04:57:59,600
participate in the debate he didn't show

7509
04:58:02,628 --> 04:58:00,480
up

7510
04:58:04,550 --> 04:58:02,638
oh and actually he's monitoring things

7511
04:58:05,910 --> 04:58:04,560
from the facebook live chat he says now

7512
04:58:07,510 --> 04:58:05,920
he's lying about the debate it was

7513
04:58:08,708 --> 04:58:07,520
canceled because of death threats i

7514
04:58:10,788 --> 04:58:08,718
offered to do it

7515
04:58:14,230 --> 04:58:10,798
again and that offer still stands well

7516
04:58:16,070 --> 04:58:14,240
there we go i see cal is now

7517
04:58:18,390 --> 04:58:16,080
that's that's completely untrue carolyn

7518
04:58:20,628 --> 04:58:18,400
you know it well i'll give you both guys

7519
04:58:22,230 --> 04:58:20,638
you know you both have an open door here

7520
04:58:24,708 --> 04:58:22,240
you know and listen i just want to say

7521
04:58:26,628 --> 04:58:24,718
that i like and respect both of you guys

7522
04:58:28,390 --> 04:58:26,638
for different reasons so you know i

7523
04:58:30,550 --> 04:58:28,400
don't like to see you disagree so

7524
04:58:32,390 --> 04:58:30,560
strongly with each other especially for

7525
04:58:34,708 --> 04:58:32,400
so many years you know

7526
04:58:36,948 --> 04:58:34,718
but you know if you want it if you want

7527
04:58:39,190 --> 04:58:36,958
to get it get it over and done with we

7528
04:58:41,270 --> 04:58:39,200
can have a nice talk here and i'll just

7529
04:58:43,030 --> 04:58:41,280
moderate time and you know i thought it

7530
04:58:44,868 --> 04:58:43,040
was i thought it was over and done with

7531
04:58:46,788 --> 04:58:44,878
years ago

7532
04:58:48,310 --> 04:58:46,798
you know and then i find out he's on

7533
04:58:50,150 --> 04:58:48,320
your program

7534
04:58:52,310 --> 04:58:50,160
calling me a liar

7535
04:58:54,150 --> 04:58:52,320
you know um

7536
04:58:55,910 --> 04:58:54,160
so i just uh i just thought you know

7537
04:58:57,670 --> 04:58:55,920
let's let's talk about these things he

7538
04:58:59,110 --> 04:58:57,680
calls all the witnesses liars uh he

7539
04:59:00,788 --> 04:58:59,120
hasn't talked i'm sure some of them are

7540
04:59:03,030 --> 04:59:00,798
liars i agree

7541
04:59:05,110 --> 04:59:03,040
i've exposed them myself

7542
04:59:06,708 --> 04:59:05,120
uh jesse martial and i hesitate to say

7543
04:59:09,990 --> 04:59:06,718
it but jesse marcel

7544
04:59:12,390 --> 04:59:10,000
senior had had a tendency to

7545
04:59:13,670 --> 04:59:12,400
embellish things

7546
04:59:15,430 --> 04:59:13,680
um

7547
04:59:18,708 --> 04:59:15,440
and and i think part of it came out of

7548
04:59:22,070 --> 04:59:18,718
the the uh bob pratt interview

7549
04:59:24,628 --> 04:59:22,080
that that was done in um

7550
04:59:26,470 --> 04:59:24,638
1978 with marcel the first really long

7551
04:59:27,430 --> 04:59:26,480
form interview we've got the transcript

7552
04:59:29,750 --> 04:59:27,440
from it

7553
04:59:31,030 --> 04:59:29,760
but the the transcript notes are

7554
04:59:33,430 --> 04:59:31,040
very difficult to read because it's like

7555
04:59:35,430 --> 04:59:33,440
one eight page paragraph with little

7556
04:59:36,868 --> 04:59:35,440
insertions here and there and there's

7557
04:59:38,310 --> 04:59:36,878
one place where if you insert a comma

7558
04:59:42,390 --> 04:59:38,320
you change the meaning of the sentence

7559
04:59:45,830 --> 04:59:43,990
marcel was talking about how on his

7560
04:59:47,510 --> 04:59:45,840
third mission mission in the south

7561
04:59:49,590 --> 04:59:47,520
pacific his airplane was shot down and

7562
04:59:53,030 --> 04:59:49,600
they had to bail out

7563
04:59:55,030 --> 04:59:53,040
and and pratt says

7564
04:59:57,110 --> 04:59:55,040
everybody survive

7565
05:00:00,150 --> 04:59:57,120
and the answer written in there is all

7566
05:00:01,750 --> 05:00:00,160
but one crashed into the mountain

7567
05:00:03,190 --> 05:00:01,760
and so you're saying well then marcel

7568
05:00:05,030 --> 05:00:03,200
and one other guy survived he's not

7569
05:00:07,590 --> 05:00:05,040
saying he's a lone survivor one marcelo

7570
05:00:08,948 --> 05:00:07,600
another guy survived but if you poop it

7571
05:00:10,470 --> 05:00:08,958
put it um

7572
05:00:11,510 --> 05:00:10,480
put a comment there

7573
05:00:12,628 --> 05:00:11,520
a

7574
05:00:14,948 --> 05:00:12,638
survive

7575
05:00:16,708 --> 05:00:14,958
changes the whole context yeah well one

7576
05:00:19,030 --> 05:00:16,718
guy crashed in the mountain and died so

7577
05:00:21,830 --> 05:00:19,040
it changes the concept contact

7578
05:00:24,550 --> 05:00:21,840
marcel said that he had five air medals

7579
05:00:26,390 --> 05:00:24,560
which um

7580
05:00:27,990 --> 05:00:26,400
and marcel stated it could not have been

7581
05:00:29,670 --> 05:00:28,000
from this world

7582
05:00:33,110 --> 05:00:29,680
yes he did by its weight by the way is

7583
05:00:33,830 --> 05:00:33,120
marcel with one l but who's

7584
05:00:36,070 --> 05:00:33,840
sure okay

7585
05:00:37,670 --> 05:00:36,080
but but um

7586
05:00:39,430 --> 05:00:37,680
you know if you go and you read linda

7587
05:00:41,750 --> 05:00:39,440
carley's book about

7588
05:00:43,670 --> 05:00:41,760
her interview uh it's uh for the sake of

7589
05:00:45,830 --> 05:00:43,680
my country here interview

7590
05:00:52,550 --> 05:00:45,840
of about

7591
05:00:57,190 --> 05:00:55,350
her four hours interview of with marcel

7592
05:00:58,628 --> 05:00:57,200
and there's one point where he's talking

7593
05:01:00,470 --> 05:00:58,638
he begins to talk about how he had

7594
05:01:02,708 --> 05:01:00,480
performed an operation

7595
05:01:04,230 --> 05:01:02,718
on a guy uh

7596
05:01:05,910 --> 05:01:04,240
because the surgeon wasn't available and

7597
05:01:07,750 --> 05:01:05,920
they did it over the radio

7598
05:01:10,628 --> 05:01:07,760
and his wife interrupts and says oh not

7599
05:01:12,788 --> 05:01:10,638
that story again like she didn't even

7600
05:01:14,310 --> 05:01:12,798
yeah that's crazy yeah but he said he

7601
05:01:16,390 --> 05:01:14,320
had five air metals we could only

7602
05:01:17,830 --> 05:01:16,400
document meant two

7603
05:01:19,430 --> 05:01:17,840
and and

7604
05:01:21,190 --> 05:01:19,440
to kind of put it in perspective i have

7605
05:01:22,948 --> 05:01:21,200
41

7606
05:01:25,110 --> 05:01:22,958
but in in vietnam

7607
05:01:27,030 --> 05:01:25,120
we got an air medal for every 25 hours

7608
05:01:28,868 --> 05:01:27,040
of combat assault flight time and one

7609
05:01:30,708 --> 05:01:28,878
for every 50 hours and

7610
05:01:32,390 --> 05:01:30,718
then once in a while we got air metals

7611
05:01:34,070 --> 05:01:32,400
for valve i got two air metals for valor

7612
05:01:36,788 --> 05:01:34,080
as well so i got like i got the first

7613
05:01:40,628 --> 05:01:36,798
oakley cluster like three times

7614
05:01:41,830 --> 05:01:40,638
um so and so i've got 41 total air metal

7615
05:01:43,990 --> 05:01:41,840
so uh

7616
05:01:46,070 --> 05:01:44,000
you know him having five dresses your

7617
05:01:47,750 --> 05:01:46,080
dress uniform must look great though you

7618
05:01:49,190 --> 05:01:47,760
got that hole well you only wear one and

7619
05:01:51,190 --> 05:01:49,200
then the the air metal you've got a

7620
05:01:54,948 --> 05:01:51,200
little 41 on it and a v for the the

7621
05:01:59,830 --> 05:01:57,430
when i read rotc

7622
05:02:01,670 --> 05:01:59,840
we had a dining out so we're in dress

7623
05:02:04,310 --> 05:02:01,680
uniforms and we can wear our medals if

7624
05:02:06,390 --> 05:02:04,320
we have any so i'm one of the people of

7625
05:02:07,990 --> 05:02:06,400
a vietnam veteran that happened

7626
05:02:09,590 --> 05:02:08,000
my friend bob cornett who i mentioned

7627
05:02:11,190 --> 05:02:09,600
earlier there was a guy at the head

7628
05:02:13,350 --> 05:02:11,200
table and he's looking down in his medal

7629
05:02:14,948 --> 05:02:13,360
he's looking at mine he's looking at me

7630
05:02:17,670 --> 05:02:14,958
and he's trying to figure out how this

7631
05:02:18,788 --> 05:02:17,680
how this rotc cadet could have all these

7632
05:02:20,230 --> 05:02:18,798
mills

7633
05:02:22,070 --> 05:02:20,240
but i've been to vietnam so that was how

7634
05:02:24,830 --> 05:02:22,080
i did it yeah you did things a little

7635
05:02:26,310 --> 05:02:24,840
backwards rotc after you were already

7636
05:02:28,310 --> 05:02:26,320
flying well no i was i was a ward

7637
05:02:30,550 --> 05:02:28,320
officer first and as a ward officer and

7638
05:02:31,830 --> 05:02:30,560
you you go to rotc and you get

7639
05:02:33,190 --> 05:02:31,840
commissioned but i only had to go for

7640
05:02:35,030 --> 05:02:33,200
two years and i didn't have to take the

7641
05:02:37,430 --> 05:02:35,040
stupid summer camp thing

7642
05:02:39,430 --> 05:02:37,440
um and so i graduated when i after we

7643
05:02:41,750 --> 05:02:39,440
graduated i got uh i was commissioned in

7644
05:02:44,230 --> 05:02:41,760
the air force as a second lieutenant

7645
05:02:47,030 --> 05:02:44,240
so um sure now when somebody asks about

7646
05:02:49,670 --> 05:02:47,040
this tony bergelia

7647
05:02:50,948 --> 05:02:49,680
uh tony is a nice guy

7648
05:02:53,270 --> 05:02:50,958
um

7649
05:02:59,750 --> 05:02:53,280
he's a bit over the top

7650
05:03:04,230 --> 05:03:01,990
yeah i like tony he's a good guy he

7651
05:03:05,830 --> 05:03:04,240
works very hard i i think he's a tad bit

7652
05:03:08,070 --> 05:03:05,840
credulous

7653
05:03:10,070 --> 05:03:08,080
he accepts some things that did he and i

7654
05:03:12,070 --> 05:03:10,080
argue about well we can look at the

7655
05:03:13,910 --> 05:03:12,080
roswell slides thing and again you go to

7656
05:03:15,830 --> 05:03:13,920
my blog and you just type in roster and

7657
05:03:18,708 --> 05:03:15,840
by the way i just wanted to mention that

7658
05:03:20,150 --> 05:03:18,718
uh i remember the roswell slides and i

7659
05:03:23,590 --> 05:03:20,160
remember saying

7660
05:03:25,750 --> 05:03:23,600
this is not going to end well and i i

7661
05:03:29,110 --> 05:03:25,760
caught a quote from you

7662
05:03:31,350 --> 05:03:29,120
saying exactly that this is not going to

7663
05:03:33,350 --> 05:03:31,360
end well

7664
05:03:36,310 --> 05:03:33,360
a lot of incredible people got tied up

7665
05:03:39,350 --> 05:03:36,320
in that richard dolan and don schmidt

7666
05:03:41,350 --> 05:03:39,360
and and many others got tied up

7667
05:03:44,230 --> 05:03:41,360
yeah the roswell slides were

7668
05:03:46,470 --> 05:03:44,240
another jaime moussan fake alien garbage

7669
05:03:48,230 --> 05:03:46,480
well no it really it really it didn't

7670
05:03:50,390 --> 05:03:48,240
really start with jaime musan it started

7671
05:03:52,070 --> 05:03:50,400
with don schmidt and tom carey

7672
05:03:54,070 --> 05:03:52,080
okay

7673
05:03:57,350 --> 05:03:54,080
and and um

7674
05:03:59,590 --> 05:03:57,360
they got they got on to that and then

7675
05:04:01,270 --> 05:03:59,600
tony got involved in it

7676
05:04:04,150 --> 05:04:01,280
and um

7677
05:04:06,230 --> 05:04:04,160
very tenacious in his research i said to

7678
05:04:07,750 --> 05:04:06,240
tom i was i it was like

7679
05:04:09,270 --> 05:04:07,760
months before the thing came out and

7680
05:04:11,990 --> 05:04:09,280
i've got a couple of books on science

7681
05:04:13,430 --> 05:04:12,000
fiction movies and things like that and

7682
05:04:14,788 --> 05:04:13,440
i went through there looking to see if

7683
05:04:16,390 --> 05:04:14,798
there was anything like that that would

7684
05:04:18,470 --> 05:04:16,400
appear in a science fiction movie in the

7685
05:04:20,470 --> 05:04:18,480
1940s and there really wasn't in the

7686
05:04:22,708 --> 05:04:20,480
1940s if you had an alien they basically

7687
05:04:23,510 --> 05:04:22,718
were human dressed in silly costumes

7688
05:04:28,070 --> 05:04:23,520
yeah

7689
05:04:30,390 --> 05:04:28,080
and i said adam said

7690
05:04:31,510 --> 05:04:30,400
to tom i said

7691
05:04:34,230 --> 05:04:31,520
the only thing i could think of i said

7692
05:04:36,868 --> 05:04:34,240
do you think it could be a mummy

7693
05:04:38,390 --> 05:04:36,878
and he said no we've looked at mummies

7694
05:04:42,150 --> 05:04:38,400
and i'm thinking you're looking for a

7695
05:04:43,430 --> 05:04:42,160
specific mummy and they couldn't find it

7696
05:04:46,390 --> 05:04:43,440
and then

7697
05:04:48,708 --> 05:04:46,400
within 48 hours of the

7698
05:04:51,030 --> 05:04:48,718
presentation in mexico city they put up

7699
05:04:53,190 --> 05:04:51,040
a better scan than we were working with

7700
05:04:55,670 --> 05:04:53,200
on the mummy and

7701
05:04:58,150 --> 05:04:55,680
it was found the mummy was found yeah it

7702
05:04:59,830 --> 05:04:58,160
all fell apart pretty fast i remember

7703
05:05:02,550 --> 05:04:59,840
the money was found the picture was

7704
05:05:04,788 --> 05:05:02,560
taken in um

7705
05:05:06,708 --> 05:05:04,798
mesa verde the museum at mesa verde and

7706
05:05:08,150 --> 05:05:06,718
then the the mummy had been moved after

7707
05:05:09,990 --> 05:05:08,160
that to

7708
05:05:11,750 --> 05:05:10,000
montezuma's castle

7709
05:05:13,430 --> 05:05:11,760
and i think the mummy eventually was

7710
05:05:15,110 --> 05:05:13,440
returned to

7711
05:05:16,868 --> 05:05:15,120
the um

7712
05:05:18,708 --> 05:05:16,878
the the tribe

7713
05:05:22,550 --> 05:05:18,718
yeah it was interred actually it was

7714
05:05:23,750 --> 05:05:22,560
very yeah at some point at some point

7715
05:05:27,670 --> 05:05:23,760
the one the one thing i want to say

7716
05:05:28,708 --> 05:05:27,680
about tony is he was so upset

7717
05:05:31,190 --> 05:05:28,718
by

7718
05:05:34,948 --> 05:05:32,628
the exploitation of this poor

7719
05:05:36,310 --> 05:05:34,958
unfortunate child that had died 800

7720
05:05:39,030 --> 05:05:36,320
years earlier

7721
05:05:40,390 --> 05:05:39,040
that he he made a sizable donation to

7722
05:05:42,948 --> 05:05:40,400
the tribe

7723
05:05:45,590 --> 05:05:42,958
as a way of of sort of um

7724
05:05:47,190 --> 05:05:45,600
you know apologizing for being involved

7725
05:05:48,788 --> 05:05:47,200
in

7726
05:05:49,910 --> 05:05:48,798
the desecration of the of the poor

7727
05:05:51,830 --> 05:05:49,920
unfortunate child and i'm thinking you

7728
05:05:53,990 --> 05:05:51,840
know it's a poor kid

7729
05:05:54,948 --> 05:05:54,000
you know just a horrible horrible thing

7730
05:05:57,670 --> 05:05:54,958
um

7731
05:06:00,390 --> 05:05:57,680
tom wanted to believe so badly

7732
05:06:03,510 --> 05:06:00,400
that that even after it blew up

7733
05:06:05,750 --> 05:06:03,520
he he just would not let go

7734
05:06:07,350 --> 05:06:05,760
tom i'm sorry don had called me and said

7735
05:06:09,430 --> 05:06:07,360
what can i do

7736
05:06:11,190 --> 05:06:09,440
i said admit it immediately

7737
05:06:12,628 --> 05:06:11,200
yeah and i want to say to his credit i

7738
05:06:14,868 --> 05:06:12,638
interviewed him once and talked about

7739
05:06:16,708 --> 05:06:14,878
this with him and i thought you know

7740
05:06:19,350 --> 05:06:16,718
people people really went after him

7741
05:06:21,990 --> 05:06:19,360
people were pissed and and you know to

7742
05:06:24,230 --> 05:06:22,000
his credit he said here's what happened

7743
05:06:27,270 --> 05:06:24,240
here's why i was taken in as soon as i

7744
05:06:28,708 --> 05:06:27,280
got the truth i i reversed my position

7745
05:06:30,310 --> 05:06:28,718
and you know i'm sorry it happened i'm

7746
05:06:32,550 --> 05:06:30,320
moving forward with research these

7747
05:06:34,628 --> 05:06:32,560
things i think i think you know i think

7748
05:06:36,868 --> 05:06:34,638
it took well don's first reaction was

7749
05:06:39,910 --> 05:06:36,878
that it was the skeptics were

7750
05:06:42,390 --> 05:06:39,920
creating this problem

7751
05:06:44,310 --> 05:06:42,400
with reading the the the placard finally

7752
05:06:47,030 --> 05:06:44,320
was decoded it was a scam that had been

7753
05:06:49,350 --> 05:06:47,040
put up on the internet by

7754
05:06:51,270 --> 05:06:49,360
richard dolan as a matter of fact after

7755
05:06:53,750 --> 05:06:51,280
the presentation in new mexico in new

7756
05:06:55,990 --> 05:06:53,760
mexico in mexico city they put a scan up

7757
05:06:58,470 --> 05:06:56,000
on the internet a much better scan

7758
05:06:59,590 --> 05:06:58,480
and within hours a number of people have

7759
05:07:01,670 --> 05:06:59,600
read

7760
05:07:03,590 --> 05:07:01,680
what it said

7761
05:07:05,750 --> 05:07:03,600
so they knew it wasn't a

7762
05:07:07,750 --> 05:07:05,760
so they knew it was was

7763
05:07:10,150 --> 05:07:07,760
not an alien creature that had been

7764
05:07:12,708 --> 05:07:10,160
recovered and i think it was 1897 at

7765
05:07:14,150 --> 05:07:12,718
mesa verde and it was in a museum around

7766
05:07:15,510 --> 05:07:14,160
the mesa verde area i forget the name of

7767
05:07:17,350 --> 05:07:15,520
the museum at the time but you can

7768
05:07:19,190 --> 05:07:17,360
easily when when they compared other

7769
05:07:21,190 --> 05:07:19,200
pictures from that museum you could see

7770
05:07:22,708 --> 05:07:21,200
the the pattern the tile pattern on the

7771
05:07:25,270 --> 05:07:22,718
floor when you saw the full picture you

7772
05:07:27,590 --> 05:07:25,280
can see other displays other exhibits as

7773
05:07:29,670 --> 05:07:27,600
well of the placards so it became very

7774
05:07:32,230 --> 05:07:29,680
clear what what had happened there but

7775
05:07:33,430 --> 05:07:32,240
but to tony's credit the moment he found

7776
05:07:36,788 --> 05:07:33,440
out

7777
05:07:38,470 --> 05:07:36,798
what it was he renounced it immediately

7778
05:07:39,190 --> 05:07:38,480
sizable

7779
05:07:40,310 --> 05:07:39,200
right

7780
05:07:42,150 --> 05:07:40,320
so so

7781
05:07:44,470 --> 05:07:42,160
he tends he tends to be

7782
05:07:46,550 --> 05:07:44,480
shall we say overly enthusiastic

7783
05:07:49,110 --> 05:07:46,560
on some things but he does

7784
05:07:51,350 --> 05:07:49,120
i suffer from confirmation bias myself

7785
05:07:54,070 --> 05:07:51,360
like i i want to believe in the alien

7786
05:07:56,150 --> 05:07:54,080
hypothesis so there are stories that i

7787
05:07:58,150 --> 05:07:56,160
hear that i just want to believe

7788
05:07:59,510 --> 05:07:58,160
and but then i have to be you know a

7789
05:08:01,350 --> 05:07:59,520
little more

7790
05:08:03,750 --> 05:08:01,360
discerning sometimes when i get the

7791
05:08:05,670 --> 05:08:03,760
whole story and and let it go there's

7792
05:08:07,270 --> 05:08:05,680
another excellent question here for you

7793
05:08:10,070 --> 05:08:07,280
kevin uh was the weather balloon

7794
05:08:12,390 --> 05:08:10,080
explanation and demonstration a pr stunt

7795
05:08:15,110 --> 05:08:12,400
to try to divert attention

7796
05:08:17,510 --> 05:08:15,120
oh absolutely absolutely there was

7797
05:08:19,590 --> 05:08:17,520
nothing the the mogul stuff going on in

7798
05:08:21,030 --> 05:08:19,600
new mexico and charles moore told me at

7799
05:08:22,470 --> 05:08:21,040
one point you know it really wasn't

7800
05:08:23,910 --> 05:08:22,480
project mogul down here it was the new

7801
05:08:25,910 --> 05:08:23,920
york university

7802
05:08:27,110 --> 05:08:25,920
uh balloon constant level balloon

7803
05:08:28,948 --> 05:08:27,120
experiment

7804
05:08:30,948 --> 05:08:28,958
and he said we didn't even know the name

7805
05:08:32,390 --> 05:08:30,958
of the project mogul down here when we

7806
05:08:33,990 --> 05:08:32,400
were doing it and i'm thinking you know

7807
05:08:36,230 --> 05:08:34,000
dr curry's diary that was written in

7808
05:08:38,310 --> 05:08:36,240
1947 actually uses the mogul name three

7809
05:08:39,190 --> 05:08:38,320
times so i think you did know it

7810
05:08:41,030 --> 05:08:39,200
um

7811
05:08:42,628 --> 05:08:41,040
but it was it was a way of diverting

7812
05:08:44,310 --> 05:08:42,638
attention you know they would

7813
05:08:45,910 --> 05:08:44,320
they suddenly say well it's just this

7814
05:08:46,948 --> 05:08:45,920
this weather balloon thing and

7815
05:08:49,350 --> 05:08:46,958
everybody's looking at the weather

7816
05:08:50,628 --> 05:08:49,360
balloon in 1947 they said okay

7817
05:08:52,070 --> 05:08:50,638
and they went away they couldn't find

7818
05:08:53,510 --> 05:08:52,080
marcel because he's in fort worth they

7819
05:08:54,868 --> 05:08:53,520
couldn't find brazil because he's at the

7820
05:08:56,708 --> 05:08:54,878
ranch and they don't have phones and he

7821
05:08:57,990 --> 05:08:56,718
didn't have a way of contacting him

7822
05:08:59,750 --> 05:08:58,000
sheriff wouldn't talk to him sheriff

7823
05:09:01,830 --> 05:08:59,760
wilcox was saying i'm working with the

7824
05:09:03,510 --> 05:09:01,840
boys out at the base there um you'll

7825
05:09:04,868 --> 05:09:03,520
call them if you want information the

7826
05:09:06,150 --> 05:09:04,878
story just died you know well we had a

7827
05:09:07,910 --> 05:09:06,160
flying saucer but here it is it's a

7828
05:09:10,070 --> 05:09:07,920
weather balloon let's go home

7829
05:09:12,470 --> 05:09:10,080
and in nineteen it stayed that way until

7830
05:09:15,350 --> 05:09:12,480
the uh until the late 70s really right

7831
05:09:17,948 --> 05:09:15,360
it just oh you go back

7832
05:09:20,470 --> 05:09:17,958
well actually not quite because uh in

7833
05:09:22,708 --> 05:09:20,480
1966 frank edwards did a book called

7834
05:09:25,430 --> 05:09:22,718
flying sausage serious business and he

7835
05:09:27,270 --> 05:09:25,440
has a small quick paragraph um i think

7836
05:09:29,030 --> 05:09:27,280
it's called picking up the pieces

7837
05:09:30,550 --> 05:09:29,040
i think it's chapter four and he talks

7838
05:09:32,868 --> 05:09:30,560
about the roswell case in the first part

7839
05:09:33,910 --> 05:09:32,878
of that he gets practically everything

7840
05:09:36,948 --> 05:09:33,920
wrong

7841
05:09:38,390 --> 05:09:36,958
other than it was roswell new mexico

7842
05:09:39,990 --> 05:09:38,400
the air force explained it away as a

7843
05:09:41,590 --> 05:09:40,000
weather balloon with a tin

7844
05:09:43,750 --> 05:09:41,600
with a pie tin attached to it but it

7845
05:09:46,550 --> 05:09:43,760
wasn't a pie tin it was a ray one radar

7846
05:09:48,390 --> 05:09:46,560
reflector but that was 1966

7847
05:09:50,310 --> 05:09:48,400
and uh so

7848
05:09:52,470 --> 05:09:50,320
it did leak out periodically little bits

7849
05:09:54,470 --> 05:09:52,480
and pieces of it um

7850
05:09:55,750 --> 05:09:54,480
ted bloacher did a thing where he

7851
05:09:57,830 --> 05:09:55,760
collected a lot of the newspaper

7852
05:09:59,750 --> 05:09:57,840
articles from 1947

7853
05:10:02,390 --> 05:09:59,760
and there is a segment that deals with

7854
05:10:04,628 --> 05:10:02,400
roswell as it being a hoax of being a

7855
05:10:06,070 --> 05:10:04,638
weather balloon and so it did remain

7856
05:10:07,670 --> 05:10:06,080
pretty much that way everybody ignored

7857
05:10:11,030 --> 05:10:07,680
it until jesse marcel came out and

7858
05:10:13,590 --> 05:10:11,040
started talking about it in 1978

7859
05:10:16,070 --> 05:10:13,600
and and then then it ran from the we ran

7860
05:10:18,470 --> 05:10:16,080
with it from there but then

7861
05:10:20,628 --> 05:10:18,480
you get to 1995 and the air force comes

7862
05:10:23,190 --> 05:10:20,638
out with their explanation

7863
05:10:24,628 --> 05:10:23,200
and they said you know back in 1947 it

7864
05:10:27,590 --> 05:10:24,638
wasn't a weather balloon we lied about

7865
05:10:30,310 --> 05:10:27,600
it then we've done this extensive

7866
05:10:31,270 --> 05:10:30,320
extensive investigation

7867
05:10:33,430 --> 05:10:31,280
and

7868
05:10:34,708 --> 05:10:33,440
we've discovered it was a weather

7869
05:10:36,150 --> 05:10:34,718
balloon

7870
05:10:37,910 --> 05:10:36,160
we just give it another name say it was

7871
05:10:39,990 --> 05:10:37,920
highly classified what was going on in

7872
05:10:41,110 --> 05:10:40,000
new mexico was not classified the

7873
05:10:42,948 --> 05:10:41,120
purpose

7874
05:10:45,270 --> 05:10:42,958
what they wanted to do is create a

7875
05:10:47,110 --> 05:10:45,280
constant level balloon and place it in

7876
05:10:47,990 --> 05:10:47,120
what they postulated was an acoustical

7877
05:10:49,510 --> 05:10:48,000
level

7878
05:10:51,030 --> 05:10:49,520
in the atmosphere and they postulated

7879
05:10:53,750 --> 05:10:51,040
there's an acoustical level i get about

7880
05:10:56,070 --> 05:10:53,760
200 fathoms down in the oceans where

7881
05:10:57,510 --> 05:10:56,080
sound travels amazing distances and they

7882
05:10:59,830 --> 05:10:57,520
wanted to put this constant level

7883
05:11:01,990 --> 05:10:59,840
balloon in this acoustical level so they

7884
05:11:03,590 --> 05:11:02,000
could listen for soviet detonations of

7885
05:11:05,430 --> 05:11:03,600
atomic weapons

7886
05:11:07,510 --> 05:11:05,440
they i i don't think they ever did it i

7887
05:11:09,830 --> 05:11:07,520
don't i think the spy planes came in and

7888
05:11:11,270 --> 05:11:09,840
kind of ruined the idea for a balloon

7889
05:11:13,350 --> 05:11:11,280
but that's what they were doing and they

7890
05:11:16,070 --> 05:11:13,360
then they uh

7891
05:11:18,150 --> 05:11:16,080
the day after i said july 10th in the

7892
05:11:19,670 --> 05:11:18,160
alamogordo news there's a picture of one

7893
05:11:21,350 --> 05:11:19,680
of these arrays

7894
05:11:22,948 --> 05:11:21,360
laid out on the on the ground and

7895
05:11:24,868 --> 05:11:22,958
talking about what they were doing in

7896
05:11:26,708 --> 05:11:24,878
new mexico and how this array was

7897
05:11:30,830 --> 05:11:26,718
responsible for the

7898
05:11:30,948 --> 05:11:30,840
debris found by

7899
05:11:33,430 --> 05:11:30,958
brazil be clear all these people that

7900
05:11:37,910 --> 05:11:35,510
were military people would have been

7901
05:11:40,788 --> 05:11:37,920
familiar with a weather balloon and a

7902
05:11:42,070 --> 05:11:40,798
radar reflector right i mean well not

7903
05:11:43,510 --> 05:11:42,080
everybody but some of them would have

7904
05:11:46,470 --> 05:11:43,520
been and what i understand is on

7905
05:11:48,310 --> 05:11:46,480
operation crossroad which was the atomic

7906
05:11:50,470 --> 05:11:48,320
testing being done at the bikini atoll

7907
05:11:52,868 --> 05:11:50,480
in 1946

7908
05:11:54,628 --> 05:11:52,878
the 509th was responsible for the

7909
05:11:56,390 --> 05:11:54,638
logistical support and part of the

7910
05:11:58,150 --> 05:11:56,400
logistical support was to take rewind

7911
05:12:00,868 --> 05:11:58,160
targets and

7912
05:12:01,990 --> 05:12:00,878
neoprene weather balloons to to there so

7913
05:12:03,670 --> 05:12:02,000
people would have been familiar with

7914
05:12:05,670 --> 05:12:03,680
them i mean it's a weather balloon but

7915
05:12:08,390 --> 05:12:05,680
brazil the the thing that's interesting

7916
05:12:09,830 --> 05:12:08,400
is you have you have the july 9th um

7917
05:12:11,270 --> 05:12:09,840
newspaper

7918
05:12:13,030 --> 05:12:11,280
which is their their interview with

7919
05:12:14,708 --> 05:12:13,040
brazilian talking about how brazil said

7920
05:12:16,868 --> 05:12:14,718
well it was you know sticks and rubber

7921
05:12:19,110 --> 05:12:16,878
and twine and this sort of thing

7922
05:12:22,070 --> 05:12:19,120
and the skeptic sees on that says well

7923
05:12:23,510 --> 05:12:22,080
you know strange strange debris for a

7924
05:12:26,150 --> 05:12:23,520
interstellar craft and i'm thinking yeah

7925
05:12:29,590 --> 05:12:26,160
pretty much pretty strange

7926
05:12:31,030 --> 05:12:29,600
but then they always ignore the

7927
05:12:32,708 --> 05:12:31,040
paragraph toward the end of the story

7928
05:12:34,470 --> 05:12:32,718
where brazil says you know i found

7929
05:12:36,310 --> 05:12:34,480
weather balloons on weather observation

7930
05:12:37,830 --> 05:12:36,320
devices on two other occasions this was

7931
05:12:40,708 --> 05:12:37,840
nothing like those

7932
05:12:43,350 --> 05:12:40,718
except project mogul was exactly like

7933
05:12:45,350 --> 05:12:43,360
those that's what it was made up of he

7934
05:12:47,590 --> 05:12:45,360
would have recognized the balloon

7935
05:12:49,110 --> 05:12:47,600
marcel didn't recognize it cavett who

7936
05:12:51,030 --> 05:12:49,120
was the air the counterintelligence

7937
05:12:52,628 --> 05:12:51,040
officer there told colonel richard

7938
05:12:55,510 --> 05:12:52,638
weaver who did the investigation for the

7939
05:12:57,110 --> 05:12:55,520
air force in 1990s

7940
05:12:58,628 --> 05:12:57,120
colonel weaver nice fella talked to him

7941
05:13:00,070 --> 05:12:58,638
a number of times had him on my radio

7942
05:13:02,470 --> 05:13:00,080
show if you want to listen to colonel

7943
05:13:04,070 --> 05:13:02,480
wheeler's interview go to my blog and

7944
05:13:06,550 --> 05:13:04,080
type in colonel weaver and you can

7945
05:13:08,310 --> 05:13:06,560
listen to the two-hour interview with um

7946
05:13:10,230 --> 05:13:08,320
colonel weaver about this and i think

7947
05:13:12,310 --> 05:13:10,240
you'll find some interesting things he

7948
05:13:14,230 --> 05:13:12,320
still maintains its project mogul i

7949
05:13:16,628 --> 05:13:14,240
don't think it was i don't think there's

7950
05:13:19,110 --> 05:13:16,638
a terrestrial explanation for it

7951
05:13:21,510 --> 05:13:19,120
but um the weather balloon explanation

7952
05:13:23,190 --> 05:13:21,520
was the cover story and it just simply

7953
05:13:25,430 --> 05:13:23,200
does not work

7954
05:13:28,150 --> 05:13:25,440
there is nothing that explains the

7955
05:13:30,230 --> 05:13:28,160
roswell debris currently in terrestrial

7956
05:13:31,590 --> 05:13:30,240
terms something may be found later on i

7957
05:13:33,510 --> 05:13:31,600
don't know what it would be but

7958
05:13:35,590 --> 05:13:33,520
something may come up and say yep that's

7959
05:13:37,510 --> 05:13:35,600
what it was we're all done now

7960
05:13:40,390 --> 05:13:37,520
it's my favorite my favorite part of

7961
05:13:43,190 --> 05:13:40,400
that uh air force report and its roswell

7962
05:13:44,868 --> 05:13:43,200
case closed really is the

7963
05:13:47,750 --> 05:13:44,878
the explanation they come up with for

7964
05:13:50,310 --> 05:13:47,760
the bodies was anthropomorphic dummies

7965
05:13:53,030 --> 05:13:50,320
that were dropped 10 years or so after

7966
05:13:55,030 --> 05:13:53,040
the 47 roswell event

7967
05:13:58,150 --> 05:13:55,040
that they say people mis

7968
05:13:59,510 --> 05:13:58,160
you know misinterpreted it and somehow

7969
05:14:01,470 --> 05:13:59,520
they don't know the difference between

7970
05:14:03,430 --> 05:14:01,480
1947 and

7971
05:14:05,350 --> 05:14:03,440
1953 when the

7972
05:14:07,590 --> 05:14:05,360
when these dummies were dropped in these

7973
05:14:09,190 --> 05:14:07,600
high altitude experiments

7974
05:14:11,270 --> 05:14:09,200
well the anthropomorphic dummies looked

7975
05:14:12,948 --> 05:14:11,280
exactly like what they were and they

7976
05:14:15,110 --> 05:14:12,958
were big robust things there's a picture

7977
05:14:16,628 --> 05:14:15,120
in the report with a guy standing with

7978
05:14:19,590 --> 05:14:16,638
them and they're like six feet tall and

7979
05:14:20,948 --> 05:14:19,600
you talked about yeah who said they saw

7980
05:14:22,550 --> 05:14:20,958
they're much smaller than that they're

7981
05:14:24,230 --> 05:14:22,560
not these big robust things they're much

7982
05:14:26,150 --> 05:14:24,240
smaller than that

7983
05:14:27,190 --> 05:14:26,160
and it simply doesn't work

7984
05:14:30,070 --> 05:14:27,200
um

7985
05:14:32,310 --> 05:14:30,080
at all the other thing is

7986
05:14:34,628 --> 05:14:32,320
the guys in the new york university guys

7987
05:14:37,510 --> 05:14:34,638
had gone to roswell to elicit their help

7988
05:14:39,270 --> 05:14:37,520
and tracking their balloons and the

7989
05:14:41,030 --> 05:14:39,280
the roswell guys probably pissed them

7990
05:14:42,628 --> 05:14:41,040
off by saying they were basically too

7991
05:14:44,150 --> 05:14:42,638
busy with real work to be worried about

7992
05:14:46,470 --> 05:14:44,160
what a bunch of college boys wanted to

7993
05:14:49,990 --> 05:14:48,150
the balloons had cards on them if you

7994
05:14:51,430 --> 05:14:50,000
find this let us know and we'll pay you

7995
05:14:54,230 --> 05:14:51,440
five bucks

7996
05:14:57,350 --> 05:14:54,240
which uh in 1947. that was a lot of

7997
05:15:00,470 --> 05:14:57,360
money right yeah nice piece of change

7998
05:15:02,628 --> 05:15:00,480
um that sort of thing there was one

7999
05:15:04,708 --> 05:15:02,638
there was one that came down

8000
05:15:06,470 --> 05:15:04,718
out toward um they called the bottoms of

8001
05:15:08,390 --> 05:15:06,480
flakes they're they're east of roswell

8002
05:15:11,190 --> 05:15:08,400
one of their balloons came down there

8003
05:15:12,628 --> 05:15:11,200
they had um military equipment from

8004
05:15:13,830 --> 05:15:12,638
alamogordo

8005
05:15:15,110 --> 05:15:13,840
and they drove out and recovered their

8006
05:15:16,470 --> 05:15:15,120
balloon and they realized they were

8007
05:15:18,708 --> 05:15:16,480
getting low on gas and they stopped in

8008
05:15:20,470 --> 05:15:18,718
roswell with this balloon in the back of

8009
05:15:22,868 --> 05:15:20,480
their weapons carrier which is an open

8010
05:15:24,708 --> 05:15:22,878
bay type thing

8011
05:15:27,190 --> 05:15:24,718
to to gas up so they could get over to

8012
05:15:28,628 --> 05:15:27,200
alamogordo so then the people would have

8013
05:15:30,550 --> 05:15:28,638
seen the

8014
05:15:32,150 --> 05:15:30,560
the balloons um

8015
05:15:33,350 --> 05:15:32,160
and the other thing the air force did

8016
05:15:34,788 --> 05:15:33,360
which

8017
05:15:35,990 --> 05:15:34,798
wasn't quite fair well there's there's a

8018
05:15:37,030 --> 05:15:36,000
couple of couple of things they did one

8019
05:15:38,868 --> 05:15:37,040
of them was

8020
05:15:41,030 --> 05:15:38,878
sally tandolini who handled some of the

8021
05:15:43,990 --> 05:15:41,040
debris that bill brazel had found

8022
05:15:45,430 --> 05:15:44,000
in her affidavit she talks about how it

8023
05:15:47,510 --> 05:15:45,440
some of it being some something like

8024
05:15:49,030 --> 05:15:47,520
stiff lever leather i think it was but

8025
05:15:50,708 --> 05:15:49,040
in the next paragraph she kind of

8026
05:15:53,670 --> 05:15:50,718
identifies it more and it takes it out

8027
05:15:56,230 --> 05:15:53,680
of the realm of of terrestrial materials

8028
05:15:58,150 --> 05:15:56,240
they leave that paragraph out

8029
05:15:59,830 --> 05:15:58,160
so that you get the idea was stiff

8030
05:16:01,430 --> 05:15:59,840
leather types material and i thought

8031
05:16:03,270 --> 05:16:01,440
that was kind of underhanded things to

8032
05:16:05,510 --> 05:16:03,280
do on the other hand

8033
05:16:08,390 --> 05:16:05,520
to give colonel weaver his due

8034
05:16:11,350 --> 05:16:08,400
he published all of carrie's field notes

8035
05:16:12,708 --> 05:16:11,360
and his diaries about the explanation so

8036
05:16:14,708 --> 05:16:12,718
you go through there and you can see

8037
05:16:17,510 --> 05:16:14,718
where it says flight number four the

8038
05:16:19,510 --> 05:16:17,520
culprit the culprit of this didn't fly

8039
05:16:21,030 --> 05:16:19,520
it was cancelled

8040
05:16:22,390 --> 05:16:21,040
well they could not fly at night they

8041
05:16:24,470 --> 05:16:22,400
could not fly the balloons in the

8042
05:16:26,550 --> 05:16:24,480
daytime because these long arrays were a

8043
05:16:28,310 --> 05:16:26,560
hazard to aerial navigation so they did

8044
05:16:31,670 --> 05:16:28,320
not allow them to launch them in the

8045
05:16:33,670 --> 05:16:31,680
dark or or if it was cloudy out

8046
05:16:35,590 --> 05:16:33,680
and so uh flight number four which they

8047
05:16:37,110 --> 05:16:35,600
say is the culprit never flew there's no

8048
05:16:38,628 --> 05:16:37,120
there's no documentation for it they

8049
05:16:41,430 --> 05:16:38,638
said they flew a cluster balloons later

8050
05:16:42,470 --> 05:16:41,440
in the day but that's not a mobile array

8051
05:16:44,550 --> 05:16:42,480
and so

8052
05:16:45,990 --> 05:16:44,560
their explanation falls

8053
05:16:48,150 --> 05:16:46,000
falls on that and that's the thing i've

8054
05:16:51,350 --> 05:16:48,160
never understood about the skeptics they

8055
05:16:52,628 --> 05:16:51,360
they quote the the july 9th newspaper

8056
05:16:54,390 --> 05:16:52,638
article with the

8057
05:17:00,788 --> 05:16:54,400
brazil

8058
05:17:02,310 --> 05:17:00,798
saying that you know it was rubber and

8059
05:17:04,390 --> 05:17:02,320
rubber balloon and all of this stuff

8060
05:17:05,750 --> 05:17:04,400
they quote that as if it's gospel

8061
05:17:07,110 --> 05:17:05,760
ignoring the other quote where he says

8062
05:17:09,750 --> 05:17:07,120
well it was nothing like i'd found

8063
05:17:12,708 --> 05:17:09,760
before and so we get to the prairies

8064
05:17:15,270 --> 05:17:12,718
diary the guy in charge of the

8065
05:17:16,948 --> 05:17:15,280
operation at alamogordo saying uh you

8066
05:17:18,310 --> 05:17:16,958
know the flight was canceled well we're

8067
05:17:20,310 --> 05:17:18,320
just going to ignore that and we'll

8068
05:17:22,390 --> 05:17:20,320
postulate that this cluster balloons

8069
05:17:24,868 --> 05:17:22,400
they flew later in the day is what uh

8070
05:17:26,230 --> 05:17:24,878
what fell but it just it simply doesn't

8071
05:17:28,868 --> 05:17:26,240
work

8072
05:17:31,990 --> 05:17:28,878
yeah i've never liked the either weather

8073
05:17:34,550 --> 05:17:32,000
balloon mobile balloon i just don't see

8074
05:17:36,310 --> 05:17:34,560
a bunch of people getting

8075
05:17:39,350 --> 05:17:36,320
and the amount of people that have been

8076
05:17:41,350 --> 05:17:39,360
involved in this and then also

8077
05:17:42,948 --> 05:17:41,360
i wanted to take a moment for you to ask

8078
05:17:45,270 --> 05:17:42,958
you about some of these deathbed

8079
05:17:46,070 --> 05:17:45,280
confessions of people

8080
05:17:48,230 --> 05:17:46,080
uh

8081
05:17:50,470 --> 05:17:48,240
that have told stories of aliens and

8082
05:17:52,868 --> 05:17:50,480
bodies and what really happened there

8083
05:17:54,948 --> 05:17:52,878
as they were dying or nearing the end of

8084
05:17:57,350 --> 05:17:54,958
their lives

8085
05:17:59,510 --> 05:17:57,360
dutch schmitz got that book uh children

8086
05:18:01,590 --> 05:17:59,520
of roswell which i found fascinating

8087
05:18:02,550 --> 05:18:01,600
because i just don't see a bunch of

8088
05:18:05,110 --> 05:18:02,560
people

8089
05:18:06,948 --> 05:18:05,120
nearing death suddenly deciding that

8090
05:18:08,550 --> 05:18:06,958
they're going to start making up stories

8091
05:18:10,070 --> 05:18:08,560
about aliens

8092
05:18:11,590 --> 05:18:10,080
you know

8093
05:18:13,670 --> 05:18:11,600
what are you doing some of the deathbed

8094
05:18:14,948 --> 05:18:13,680
confessions and things first of all

8095
05:18:17,510 --> 05:18:14,958
first of all technically they're not

8096
05:18:19,990 --> 05:18:17,520
deathbed confessions

8097
05:18:22,150 --> 05:18:20,000
death bed confessions refers to

8098
05:18:24,390 --> 05:18:22,160
confessing to a crime

8099
05:18:26,788 --> 05:18:24,400
you know sure yeah it's a bad term but

8100
05:18:27,910 --> 05:18:26,798
you know near death confession yeah i

8101
05:18:29,510 --> 05:18:27,920
understand i understand what you're

8102
05:18:31,750 --> 05:18:29,520
saying and and

8103
05:18:33,910 --> 05:18:31,760
um

8104
05:18:35,430 --> 05:18:33,920
yeah i i don't i don't i i can

8105
05:18:37,030 --> 05:18:35,440
understand a guy

8106
05:18:38,310 --> 05:18:37,040
um

8107
05:18:40,230 --> 05:18:38,320
and i

8108
05:18:42,230 --> 05:18:40,240
because back at the turn of the last

8109
05:18:44,150 --> 05:18:42,240
century

8110
05:18:45,750 --> 05:18:44,160
there were 15 guys traveling with

8111
05:18:47,590 --> 05:18:45,760
various carnivals around the united

8112
05:18:49,270 --> 05:18:47,600
nates united states claiming they were

8113
05:18:52,628 --> 05:18:49,280
the real jesse james

8114
05:18:54,868 --> 05:18:52,638
well you know 14 of them had to be lying

8115
05:18:57,990 --> 05:18:54,878
yeah and and the 15th was two but that's

8116
05:18:59,270 --> 05:18:58,000
another other argument

8117
05:19:00,868 --> 05:18:59,280
so people

8118
05:19:02,628 --> 05:19:00,878
put themselves into this and and there

8119
05:19:04,470 --> 05:19:02,638
was a lot of publicity about the roswell

8120
05:19:07,350 --> 05:19:04,480
case after uh

8121
05:19:09,350 --> 05:19:07,360
the the first little um

8122
05:19:11,430 --> 05:19:09,360
wave of it in in 1980 when when the

8123
05:19:13,590 --> 05:19:11,440
roswell incident book came out or 1978

8124
05:19:17,830 --> 05:19:13,600
when jesse marcel told his story and

8125
05:19:19,670 --> 05:19:17,840
then then it built after 1989 when

8126
05:19:21,030 --> 05:19:19,680
we all started getting involved in the

8127
05:19:22,230 --> 05:19:21,040
investigations and there was a lot more

8128
05:19:23,990 --> 05:19:22,240
information coming out and i can

8129
05:19:26,390 --> 05:19:24,000
understand people who were there in

8130
05:19:28,868 --> 05:19:26,400
roswell in 1947 plugging themselves into

8131
05:19:29,910 --> 05:19:28,878
the story um

8132
05:19:31,910 --> 05:19:29,920
but

8133
05:19:32,948 --> 05:19:31,920
when you're extremely ill and and you're

8134
05:19:35,910 --> 05:19:32,958
about to

8135
05:19:38,310 --> 05:19:35,920
croak which would have been really

8136
05:19:42,948 --> 05:19:39,750
people

8137
05:19:44,628 --> 05:19:42,958
yeah when they're about to croak um

8138
05:19:46,310 --> 05:19:44,638
to to to come up with this kind of a

8139
05:19:47,270 --> 05:19:46,320
cockamamie story just doesn't make a lot

8140
05:19:49,030 --> 05:19:47,280
of sense

8141
05:19:51,110 --> 05:19:49,040
you know

8142
05:19:52,230 --> 05:19:51,120
10 years before you're going to die i

8143
05:19:53,430 --> 05:19:52,240
mean you're not going to realize you're

8144
05:19:55,510 --> 05:19:53,440
going to die in 10 years but i mean

8145
05:19:58,310 --> 05:19:55,520
telling the story to your family at some

8146
05:19:59,990 --> 05:19:58,320
gathering plugging yourself into it

8147
05:20:02,550 --> 05:20:00,000
yeah i got it

8148
05:20:04,230 --> 05:20:02,560
and what what bothers me is and one of

8149
05:20:05,990 --> 05:20:04,240
the reasons we i believe frank kaufman

8150
05:20:07,270 --> 05:20:06,000
and some of these other people

8151
05:20:09,670 --> 05:20:07,280
is because you didn't think people would

8152
05:20:11,190 --> 05:20:09,680
be making up their military careers

8153
05:20:12,948 --> 05:20:11,200
and then i read a book called stolen

8154
05:20:15,510 --> 05:20:12,958
valor and it's about all these people

8155
05:20:17,910 --> 05:20:15,520
who claim to be vietnam veterans who

8156
05:20:22,070 --> 05:20:20,390
maybe maybe were in the army but didn't

8157
05:20:23,670 --> 05:20:22,080
get to vietnam or weren't even in

8158
05:20:25,830 --> 05:20:23,680
vietnam weren't even the military

8159
05:20:27,190 --> 05:20:25,840
claiming that they were vietnam veterans

8160
05:20:29,110 --> 05:20:27,200
for they

8161
05:20:31,350 --> 05:20:29,120
they could wrap themselves in the glory

8162
05:20:32,708 --> 05:20:31,360
which is why you know i put up the blog

8163
05:20:34,548 --> 05:20:32,718
with the pictures and and the

8164
05:20:35,990 --> 05:20:34,558
documentation so i really was a vietnam

8165
05:20:38,230 --> 05:20:36,000
vet i really am a vietnam veteran i

8166
05:20:40,070 --> 05:20:38,240
should say

8167
05:20:42,150 --> 05:20:40,080
but and david rudiak and i got into a

8168
05:20:44,230 --> 05:20:42,160
big fight over this because there was a

8169
05:20:45,670 --> 05:20:44,240
survey was taken they said it was part

8170
05:20:47,430 --> 05:20:45,680
of a census survey and i'm not sure

8171
05:20:51,270 --> 05:20:47,440
exactly how this works out because it

8172
05:20:52,788 --> 05:20:51,280
was 1995 as opposed to the regular

8173
05:20:55,110 --> 05:20:52,798
uh

8174
05:20:56,868 --> 05:20:55,120
regular census um

8175
05:20:59,430 --> 05:20:56,878
but they asked were you a vietnam or are

8176
05:21:01,670 --> 05:20:59,440
you a vietnam veteran and 13 million

8177
05:21:03,190 --> 05:21:01,680
people said yes

8178
05:21:04,548 --> 05:21:03,200
yeah there wasn't that many vietnam

8179
05:21:07,190 --> 05:21:04,558
veterans right there was like four or

8180
05:21:11,830 --> 05:21:07,200
five

8181
05:21:13,830 --> 05:21:11,840
i think 2.8 million 2.8 million

8182
05:21:15,270 --> 05:21:13,840
now they're quite an action

8183
05:21:17,110 --> 05:21:15,280
yeah now there's another now they're

8184
05:21:19,190 --> 05:21:17,120
saying like there's 880 000 and i'm

8185
05:21:20,548 --> 05:21:19,200
thinking wow where did everybody go

8186
05:21:23,030 --> 05:21:20,558
um

8187
05:21:24,628 --> 05:21:23,040
but but uh david rudiak just couldn't

8188
05:21:28,070 --> 05:21:24,638
believe that people would lie about that

8189
05:21:30,070 --> 05:21:28,080
and this book stolen valor just details

8190
05:21:31,270 --> 05:21:30,080
all these guys telling their stories and

8191
05:21:34,628 --> 05:21:31,280
the best one is there were there were

8192
05:21:37,270 --> 05:21:34,638
eight guys involved in a um a support

8193
05:21:39,910 --> 05:21:37,280
group talking about the horrific

8194
05:21:42,470 --> 05:21:39,920
horrific experiences in combat

8195
05:21:43,670 --> 05:21:42,480
and the

8196
05:21:45,670 --> 05:21:43,680
the therapist

8197
05:21:47,110 --> 05:21:45,680
couldn't seem to make an inroads because

8198
05:21:48,390 --> 05:21:47,120
every time you'd say something or make a

8199
05:21:50,230 --> 05:21:48,400
comment well you can't understand that

8200
05:21:51,270 --> 05:21:50,240
you were never in combat

8201
05:21:53,990 --> 05:21:51,280
and

8202
05:21:56,310 --> 05:21:54,000
neither were you yeah well no but but

8203
05:21:58,868 --> 05:21:56,320
the thing is um

8204
05:22:02,628 --> 05:21:58,878
there was a green beret captain who who

8205
05:22:04,548 --> 05:22:02,638
uh after he finished his service

8206
05:22:05,990 --> 05:22:04,558
took a master's degree in psychology or

8207
05:22:08,230 --> 05:22:06,000
social work or something so he was

8208
05:22:10,230 --> 05:22:08,240
working there i mean he he legitimate

8209
05:22:11,830 --> 05:22:10,240
hero silver star

8210
05:22:14,230 --> 05:22:11,840
i think two or three tours in vietnam

8211
05:22:16,788 --> 05:22:14,240
all of that stuff i mean legitimate guy

8212
05:22:18,548 --> 05:22:16,798
and could prove it so he goes down to

8213
05:22:20,708 --> 05:22:18,558
talk to these guys

8214
05:22:22,150 --> 05:22:20,718
about it and and they're just absolutely

8215
05:22:24,548 --> 05:22:22,160
hostile

8216
05:22:26,390 --> 05:22:24,558
and it he comes to find out none of them

8217
05:22:28,548 --> 05:22:26,400
had ever been in vietnam they were all

8218
05:22:30,548 --> 05:22:28,558
me all eight of them were making it up

8219
05:22:32,708 --> 05:22:30,558
geez it's terrible and you know stolen

8220
05:22:34,708 --> 05:22:32,718
valor is a huge problem

8221
05:22:37,190 --> 05:22:34,718
in the field of ufos

8222
05:22:39,430 --> 05:22:37,200
i did a big investigation into someone

8223
05:22:41,430 --> 05:22:39,440
called charles hall who you may have

8224
05:22:44,548 --> 05:22:41,440
heard about who claimed to work on a

8225
05:22:46,548 --> 05:22:44,558
secret base with tall white aliens

8226
05:22:48,708 --> 05:22:46,558
and we went to the ends of the earth to

8227
05:22:50,470 --> 05:22:48,718
try to verify his military claims you're

8228
05:22:52,868 --> 05:22:50,480
not talking about the rendelsham forest

8229
05:22:53,990 --> 05:22:52,878
guy right no no i'm talking about it

8230
05:22:55,030 --> 05:22:54,000
i thought you said

8231
05:22:59,430 --> 05:22:55,040
yeah

8232
05:23:00,868 --> 05:22:59,440
this it's they're easy to disprove but

8233
05:23:02,948 --> 05:23:00,878
he claimed that he was in the air force

8234
05:23:04,788 --> 05:23:02,958
and he was a weather observer

8235
05:23:07,430 --> 05:23:04,798
and he even has

8236
05:23:10,788 --> 05:23:07,440
scans in his book of like documents but

8237
05:23:12,708 --> 05:23:10,798
they all all the documents are are fake

8238
05:23:15,110 --> 05:23:12,718
so he was never in the air force he was

8239
05:23:17,270 --> 05:23:15,120
never in the class that he claimed he

8240
05:23:18,868 --> 05:23:17,280
went to to become a weather observer for

8241
05:23:19,590 --> 05:23:18,878
the air force

8242
05:23:20,708 --> 05:23:19,600
and

8243
05:23:22,788 --> 05:23:20,718
so to me

8244
05:23:25,590 --> 05:23:22,798
if the story starts with i was in the

8245
05:23:27,350 --> 05:23:25,600
air force and then i saw aliens well if

8246
05:23:28,310 --> 05:23:27,360
you can pick apart the beginning of the

8247
05:23:30,470 --> 05:23:28,320
story

8248
05:23:32,548 --> 05:23:30,480
that you were never in the actual air

8249
05:23:34,548 --> 05:23:32,558
force you know the stories fall apart

8250
05:23:36,868 --> 05:23:34,558
it's a big problem and we have all these

8251
05:23:38,708 --> 05:23:36,878
super soldiers you know

8252
05:23:40,628 --> 05:23:38,718
that claim they were in the army and

8253
05:23:41,750 --> 05:23:40,638
then they got recruited into the secret

8254
05:23:43,830 --> 05:23:41,760
space

8255
05:23:45,750 --> 05:23:43,840
thing and yeah there's so many frauds

8256
05:23:47,590 --> 05:23:45,760
out there i was i was always going to

8257
05:23:49,510 --> 05:23:47,600
put on my uniform go to wright patterson

8258
05:23:52,070 --> 05:23:49,520
air force base and have

8259
05:23:53,990 --> 05:23:52,080
with with a gopro camera and say

8260
05:23:54,948 --> 05:23:54,000
can i have the access to the blue room

8261
05:23:56,470 --> 05:23:54,958
yeah

8262
05:23:58,470 --> 05:23:56,480
i came from in there and i saw all the

8263
05:24:00,708 --> 05:23:58,480
bodies what the hell's the problem

8264
05:24:01,990 --> 05:24:00,718
yeah you know i that that leads me to

8265
05:24:03,510 --> 05:24:02,000
another one of my questions now i

8266
05:24:04,788 --> 05:24:03,520
realize you're gonna have to speculate

8267
05:24:07,510 --> 05:24:04,798
on this but

8268
05:24:09,590 --> 05:24:07,520
uh you have spent so many hours

8269
05:24:11,430 --> 05:24:09,600
researching interviewing people

8270
05:24:13,590 --> 05:24:11,440
and you have a military background i

8271
05:24:16,310 --> 05:24:13,600
want to ask you if if an alien

8272
05:24:18,150 --> 05:24:16,320
spacecraft really crash landed and

8273
05:24:19,910 --> 05:24:18,160
bodies were recovered

8274
05:24:21,270 --> 05:24:19,920
where do you think they ended up because

8275
05:24:23,110 --> 05:24:21,280
i think they all went to wright

8276
05:24:24,628 --> 05:24:23,120
patterson

8277
05:24:26,548 --> 05:24:24,638
you'd be wrong

8278
05:24:28,548 --> 05:24:26,558
really

8279
05:24:30,310 --> 05:24:28,558
actually i don't have to speculate about

8280
05:24:31,830 --> 05:24:30,320
where they went because general exxon

8281
05:24:33,350 --> 05:24:31,840
told us where they went

8282
05:24:34,868 --> 05:24:33,360
general exxon was assigned to

8283
05:24:36,868 --> 05:24:34,878
wright-patterson air force base in july

8284
05:24:38,708 --> 05:24:36,878
of 1947. he was a lieutenant colonel at

8285
05:24:38,990 --> 05:24:38,718
the time he was attending the

8286
05:24:41,030 --> 05:24:39,000
um

8287
05:24:43,590 --> 05:24:41,040
[Music]

8288
05:24:45,750 --> 05:24:43,600
air institute of technology which was a

8289
05:24:48,390 --> 05:24:45,760
master's degree program for for officers

8290
05:24:50,868 --> 05:24:48,400
in the air force the army air forces and

8291
05:24:52,708 --> 05:24:50,878
he was at the base when these things

8292
05:24:56,310 --> 05:24:52,718
happened and he told us

8293
05:24:58,230 --> 05:24:56,320
don and me and we have it on tape so uh

8294
05:24:59,670 --> 05:24:58,240
he said that the the bodies did go into

8295
05:25:01,430 --> 05:24:59,680
wright patterson but one of them went to

8296
05:25:02,708 --> 05:25:01,440
lowry air force base or lowery army

8297
05:25:05,270 --> 05:25:02,718
airfield

8298
05:25:06,948 --> 05:25:05,280
uh if that's what it was called in 1947

8299
05:25:08,230 --> 05:25:06,958
because that's where the army's mortuary

8300
05:25:10,150 --> 05:25:08,240
service was

8301
05:25:11,910 --> 05:25:10,160
and that one was sent there to the so

8302
05:25:13,270 --> 05:25:11,920
they could work on

8303
05:25:14,548 --> 05:25:13,280
finding the best way to preserve the

8304
05:25:16,628 --> 05:25:14,558
bodies because you've got to now a

8305
05:25:18,230 --> 05:25:16,638
unique biological sample and you're

8306
05:25:20,230 --> 05:25:18,240
probably not going to get any more so

8307
05:25:22,230 --> 05:25:20,240
you want to preserve it as best you can

8308
05:25:23,110 --> 05:25:22,240
so he told us that that they went to

8309
05:25:26,788 --> 05:25:23,120
right

8310
05:25:27,750 --> 05:25:26,798
then they went to one of them went to um

8311
05:25:29,590 --> 05:25:27,760
lowry

8312
05:25:32,070 --> 05:25:29,600
and somebody else suggested one of them

8313
05:25:33,910 --> 05:25:32,080
had gone to

8314
05:25:36,310 --> 05:25:33,920
mcdill

8315
05:25:37,590 --> 05:25:36,320
i think there's a big aeromedical

8316
05:25:38,628 --> 05:25:37,600
center there

8317
05:25:40,868 --> 05:25:38,638
um

8318
05:25:42,390 --> 05:25:40,878
now at this point we then now we now we

8319
05:25:43,670 --> 05:25:42,400
get into the speculation because people

8320
05:25:45,910 --> 05:25:43,680
have told us a lot of wild stuff there's

8321
05:25:47,990 --> 05:25:45,920
supposedly an island in the pacific

8322
05:25:49,190 --> 05:25:48,000
that's that's run by the military and

8323
05:25:51,350 --> 05:25:49,200
that's where all the stuff is stored

8324
05:25:52,868 --> 05:25:51,360
because you can't get to it easily

8325
05:25:53,590 --> 05:25:52,878
you've got to know where the island is

8326
05:25:55,750 --> 05:25:53,600
and

8327
05:25:56,948 --> 05:25:55,760
they'll see you coming

8328
05:25:58,390 --> 05:25:56,958
type thing

8329
05:26:00,310 --> 05:25:58,400
they're like trying to sneak up on area

8330
05:26:04,470 --> 05:26:00,320
51.

8331
05:26:06,310 --> 05:26:04,480
so um i just i simply just don't know um

8332
05:26:08,310 --> 05:26:06,320
at this point but but for what we were

8333
05:26:09,670 --> 05:26:08,320
told kaufman told us a different story

8334
05:26:11,270 --> 05:26:09,680
that's that

8335
05:26:12,390 --> 05:26:11,280
some of them went to

8336
05:26:14,390 --> 05:26:12,400
right field and someone went to

8337
05:26:16,230 --> 05:26:14,400
washington dc but we can't believe

8338
05:26:18,230 --> 05:26:16,240
anything kaufman told us so we ignore

8339
05:26:20,628 --> 05:26:18,240
that go with what general exxon said i

8340
05:26:22,548 --> 05:26:20,638
think that's a more reliable source

8341
05:26:24,628 --> 05:26:22,558
yeah and another point i wanted to ask

8342
05:26:27,110 --> 05:26:24,638
about is exactly that there have been

8343
05:26:29,190 --> 05:26:27,120
some extremely high-ranking military

8344
05:26:30,948 --> 05:26:29,200
officers involved in one form or another

8345
05:26:32,708 --> 05:26:30,958
in the roswell event

8346
05:26:35,270 --> 05:26:32,718
that have made

8347
05:26:37,350 --> 05:26:35,280
some pretty startling admissions and and

8348
05:26:39,110 --> 05:26:37,360
doesn't that lend credibility to the

8349
05:26:40,948 --> 05:26:39,120
alien hypothesis when you've got

8350
05:26:42,868 --> 05:26:40,958
somebody like a general

8351
05:26:45,750 --> 05:26:42,878
being willing to put their reputation

8352
05:26:47,510 --> 05:26:45,760
and their military career on the line to

8353
05:26:48,788 --> 05:26:47,520
say these things well you have to

8354
05:26:50,310 --> 05:26:48,798
remember that somebody whose name i

8355
05:26:51,190 --> 05:26:50,320
won't mention claimed to claim that we

8356
05:26:52,788 --> 05:26:51,200
had mis

8357
05:26:54,390 --> 05:26:52,798
misrepresented the general exxon

8358
05:26:55,590 --> 05:26:54,400
testimony

8359
05:26:57,350 --> 05:26:55,600
but um

8360
05:26:59,830 --> 05:26:57,360
greg sandow had looked at all of this

8361
05:27:02,070 --> 05:26:59,840
and and suggested that we were very very

8362
05:27:04,310 --> 05:27:02,080
careful and very meticulous in how he

8363
05:27:05,750 --> 05:27:04,320
explained what general exxon's role was

8364
05:27:08,390 --> 05:27:05,760
and that he didn't see anything

8365
05:27:10,948 --> 05:27:08,400
firsthand other than flying over the uh

8366
05:27:12,548 --> 05:27:10,958
the uh one of the crash sites uh some

8367
05:27:14,470 --> 05:27:12,558
months later

8368
05:27:16,150 --> 05:27:14,480
but um

8369
05:27:17,990 --> 05:27:16,160
when you have somebody like that or you

8370
05:27:21,350 --> 05:27:18,000
have general dubose who was involved in

8371
05:27:23,750 --> 05:27:21,360
it or you have colonels um a number of

8372
05:27:25,350 --> 05:27:23,760
colonels as opposed to lieutenant

8373
05:27:27,030 --> 05:27:25,360
i i kind of thumbed my nose at

8374
05:27:29,350 --> 05:27:27,040
lieutenant colonel since i managed to

8375
05:27:30,788 --> 05:27:29,360
reach that rank myself

8376
05:27:32,548 --> 05:27:30,798
so i don't find it very impressive

8377
05:27:34,310 --> 05:27:32,558
anymore used to be really impressive if

8378
05:27:37,350 --> 05:27:34,320
you were lieutenant colonel but now

8379
05:27:40,230 --> 05:27:37,360
since i made it it's not not so much

8380
05:27:42,948 --> 05:27:40,240
yeah congratulations colonel

8381
05:27:44,230 --> 05:27:42,958
well the the funny thing was um when i

8382
05:27:46,310 --> 05:27:44,240
was being presented the bronze star

8383
05:27:48,788 --> 05:27:46,320
medal for my service in iraq

8384
05:27:50,628 --> 05:27:48,798
from a united states senator by the way

8385
05:27:52,390 --> 05:27:50,638
i was going out to the national guard

8386
05:27:53,190 --> 05:27:52,400
armory and i'm in my lieutenant colonel

8387
05:27:54,628 --> 05:27:53,200
suit

8388
05:27:56,868 --> 05:27:54,638
and there was a

8389
05:27:58,150 --> 05:27:56,878
young soldier running around out there

8390
05:27:59,750 --> 05:27:58,160
and i i

8391
05:28:01,270 --> 05:27:59,760
had him come over

8392
05:28:03,990 --> 05:28:01,280
and i wanted to know which room we were

8393
05:28:05,590 --> 05:28:04,000
going to be in and this guy's paris just

8394
05:28:07,670 --> 05:28:05,600
petrified and i said what the hell's the

8395
05:28:08,948 --> 05:28:07,680
problem here and then i realized oh i'm

8396
05:28:10,948 --> 05:28:08,958
in my lieutenant colonel suit he

8397
05:28:13,030 --> 05:28:10,958
probably doesn't talk yeah yeah you

8398
05:28:14,788 --> 05:28:13,040
scared him it's like so private or

8399
05:28:16,310 --> 05:28:14,798
something right thank you thank you i

8400
05:28:19,030 --> 05:28:16,320
appreciate your attempt to help i

8401
05:28:21,750 --> 05:28:19,040
finally found the room but that's uh

8402
05:28:23,990 --> 05:28:21,760
uh but but um

8403
05:28:25,430 --> 05:28:24,000
you've got an uh every member of colonel

8404
05:28:27,190 --> 05:28:25,440
blanchard's staff that we interviewed

8405
05:28:29,190 --> 05:28:27,200
with one exception

8406
05:28:32,470 --> 05:28:29,200
said that it was um

8407
05:28:34,390 --> 05:28:32,480
extraterrestrial patrick saunders on

8408
05:28:35,830 --> 05:28:34,400
both a ufo crash at roswell and the

8409
05:28:37,590 --> 05:28:35,840
truth about the ufo crash at roswell and

8410
05:28:39,830 --> 05:28:37,600
the fly leaves to the paperbacks wrote

8411
05:28:41,590 --> 05:28:39,840
notes to friends and things and one of

8412
05:28:43,510 --> 05:28:41,600
them one of them

8413
05:28:45,590 --> 05:28:43,520
the fly leaf says damage control and it

8414
05:28:47,430 --> 05:28:45,600
talks about how they change the

8415
05:28:49,350 --> 05:28:47,440
serial numbers of people and they moved

8416
05:28:51,670 --> 05:28:49,360
the money around and they

8417
05:28:53,190 --> 05:28:51,680
buried the paper trail and he wrote on

8418
05:28:54,070 --> 05:28:53,200
the top of that something to the effect

8419
05:28:57,030 --> 05:28:54,080
this is

8420
05:29:00,390 --> 05:28:57,040
anybody anything and he signed his name

8421
05:29:03,190 --> 05:29:00,400
to it here's a retired colonel

8422
05:29:05,350 --> 05:29:03,200
admitting it on paper it's one of the

8423
05:29:07,190 --> 05:29:05,360
best document bits of documentation we

8424
05:29:09,350 --> 05:29:07,200
have unfortunately

8425
05:29:11,110 --> 05:29:09,360
um it's after the book was published so

8426
05:29:13,350 --> 05:29:11,120
uh you can you could argue contamination

8427
05:29:15,270 --> 05:29:13,360
if you wanted to do so

8428
05:29:16,868 --> 05:29:15,280
but every member of of colonel blanchard

8429
05:29:20,390 --> 05:29:16,878
staff i think with the exception of

8430
05:29:21,990 --> 05:29:20,400
colonel barrel clow merrell claw

8431
05:29:24,150 --> 05:29:22,000
no was it payne jennings it was one of

8432
05:29:26,390 --> 05:29:24,160
the two i think it was sparrowclaw

8433
05:29:28,070 --> 05:29:26,400
had written a note to kent jeffrey

8434
05:29:31,030 --> 05:29:28,080
saying

8435
05:29:32,470 --> 05:29:31,040
well there was nothing to it and now

8436
05:29:33,750 --> 05:29:32,480
maybe all these people stopped bothering

8437
05:29:35,190 --> 05:29:33,760
me and tell me

8438
05:29:36,310 --> 05:29:35,200
that sort of thing but everybody we

8439
05:29:38,230 --> 05:29:36,320
could talk to

8440
05:29:41,510 --> 05:29:38,240
and that includes you know jesse marcel

8441
05:29:42,708 --> 05:29:41,520
patrick saunders um

8442
05:29:45,270 --> 05:29:42,718
um

8443
05:29:47,350 --> 05:29:45,280
the operation i have a list and a list

8444
05:29:49,350 --> 05:29:47,360
of quotes from some of all from

8445
05:29:51,910 --> 05:29:49,360
high-ranking military officials and to

8446
05:29:54,390 --> 05:29:51,920
me just sitting through you know like

8447
05:29:57,270 --> 05:29:54,400
three pages of quotes from some of these

8448
05:29:59,110 --> 05:29:57,280
high-ranking military officers i just my

8449
05:30:01,030 --> 05:29:59,120
experience with military officers was my

8450
05:30:02,708 --> 05:30:01,040
father and and he was just like a

8451
05:30:04,548 --> 05:30:02,718
no-nonsense

8452
05:30:06,070 --> 05:30:04,558
he just wasn't a bullshitter not to say

8453
05:30:07,590 --> 05:30:06,080
that if you're in the military you can't

8454
05:30:10,150 --> 05:30:07,600
be a bullshitter but

8455
05:30:12,788 --> 05:30:10,160
i just find it pretty credible that so

8456
05:30:15,030 --> 05:30:12,798
many people have said that it was alien

8457
05:30:16,390 --> 05:30:15,040
or extraterrestrial and again i know

8458
05:30:17,830 --> 05:30:16,400
this one you're gonna have to speculate

8459
05:30:20,948 --> 05:30:17,840
on

8460
05:30:23,510 --> 05:30:20,958
i understand perhaps why they covered it

8461
05:30:25,190 --> 05:30:23,520
up first of all we don't even know is

8462
05:30:27,990 --> 05:30:25,200
this this could be

8463
05:30:30,070 --> 05:30:28,000
you know a recon mission and an invasion

8464
05:30:32,150 --> 05:30:30,080
might be taking place next week we you

8465
05:30:34,150 --> 05:30:32,160
know they didn't know what these why

8466
05:30:35,190 --> 05:30:34,160
were these beings here what was their

8467
05:30:37,350 --> 05:30:35,200
purpose

8468
05:30:39,910 --> 05:30:37,360
and and also with the

8469
05:30:42,310 --> 05:30:39,920
the incredible panic that the war of the

8470
05:30:44,390 --> 05:30:42,320
world sort of thing uh radio show

8471
05:30:46,948 --> 05:30:44,400
created uh they thought that everybody

8472
05:30:49,190 --> 05:30:46,958
would go nuts maybe but why

8473
05:30:50,390 --> 05:30:49,200
why do you believe if they did cover it

8474
05:30:52,788 --> 05:30:50,400
up they

8475
05:30:54,548 --> 05:30:52,798
continue to cover it up why not just

8476
05:30:56,628 --> 05:30:54,558
can't we handle it now we know about

8477
05:30:59,750 --> 05:30:56,638
exoplanets we know about other star

8478
05:31:02,788 --> 05:31:01,910
it's national security

8479
05:31:06,070 --> 05:31:02,798
okay

8480
05:31:07,830 --> 05:31:06,080
and you have to look at the belt montana

8481
05:31:10,150 --> 05:31:07,840
ufo sightings in

8482
05:31:11,110 --> 05:31:10,160
1967

8483
05:31:13,510 --> 05:31:11,120
um

8484
05:31:15,670 --> 05:31:13,520
and this is the point where one of the

8485
05:31:17,350 --> 05:31:15,680
missile flights was shut down

8486
05:31:19,510 --> 05:31:17,360
completely and totally so they couldn't

8487
05:31:21,510 --> 05:31:19,520
be launched by an outside force it's not

8488
05:31:23,990 --> 05:31:21,520
supposed to be able to happen

8489
05:31:25,590 --> 05:31:24,000
and if you you um

8490
05:31:27,430 --> 05:31:25,600
in one of one of the books i talk about

8491
05:31:29,030 --> 05:31:27,440
this specific oh let me say one thing

8492
05:31:30,548 --> 05:31:29,040
because you brought it up

8493
05:31:32,070 --> 05:31:30,558
brad stagger and i used to argue about

8494
05:31:34,070 --> 05:31:32,080
who had written the most ufo books i

8495
05:31:35,590 --> 05:31:34,080
thought it was him he thought it was me

8496
05:31:36,868 --> 05:31:35,600
and we worried about nick redfern

8497
05:31:38,788 --> 05:31:36,878
catching up to him

8498
05:31:40,390 --> 05:31:38,798
i think he might have passed you guys by

8499
05:31:41,910 --> 05:31:40,400
now well i don't think he has yet but i

8500
05:31:43,750 --> 05:31:41,920
think he if he hasn't he's getting awful

8501
05:31:46,310 --> 05:31:43,760
down close yeah and how many how many

8502
05:31:48,070 --> 05:31:46,320
just books have you written in total

8503
05:31:49,590 --> 05:31:48,080
books

8504
05:31:51,910 --> 05:31:49,600
125.

8505
05:31:53,510 --> 05:31:51,920
jesus wow you're going to count science

8506
05:31:55,430 --> 05:31:53,520
fiction that counts the action adventure

8507
05:31:57,110 --> 05:31:55,440
that impounds it counts the vietnam

8508
05:31:58,788 --> 05:31:57,120
great ground zero yeah i never knew

8509
05:32:00,548 --> 05:31:58,798
until recently that you wrote a bunch of

8510
05:32:02,470 --> 05:32:00,558
science fiction novels and i happen to

8511
05:32:04,470 --> 05:32:02,480
love science fiction novels so i'm gonna

8512
05:32:05,750 --> 05:32:04,480
i'm gonna get started on your catalog i

8513
05:32:10,470 --> 05:32:05,760
think

8514
05:32:13,990 --> 05:32:10,480
had a makeshift um book signing in the

8515
05:32:15,590 --> 05:32:14,000
px at uh in baghdad

8516
05:32:17,750 --> 05:32:15,600
uh because

8517
05:32:18,788 --> 05:32:17,760
a couple of friends and i were at the px

8518
05:32:20,708 --> 05:32:18,798
and we were looking at the books and

8519
05:32:22,230 --> 05:32:20,718
they had four four of my science fiction

8520
05:32:24,230 --> 05:32:22,240
novels in there

8521
05:32:26,230 --> 05:32:24,240
and so we pulled them off the shelves

8522
05:32:27,670 --> 05:32:26,240
and and we were talking to people and

8523
05:32:29,590 --> 05:32:27,680
people were buying the

8524
05:32:31,750 --> 05:32:29,600
books so

8525
05:32:33,350 --> 05:32:31,760
all four of so so full

8526
05:32:36,948 --> 05:32:33,360
was

8527
05:32:37,830 --> 05:32:36,958
a quarter no anyway um

8528
05:32:40,070 --> 05:32:37,840
uh

8529
05:32:42,390 --> 05:32:40,080
what will you so yeah i've done 125

8530
05:32:43,350 --> 05:32:42,400
books and um

8531
05:32:47,430 --> 05:32:43,360
and

8532
05:32:50,548 --> 05:32:47,440
get back to your original question which

8533
05:32:52,708 --> 05:32:50,558
was it's national security about montana

8534
05:32:53,990 --> 05:32:52,718
and the um

8535
05:32:55,350 --> 05:32:54,000
continent committee knew about the

8536
05:32:57,190 --> 05:32:55,360
sightings in belt montana they're

8537
05:32:59,110 --> 05:32:57,200
they're in the blue book files i believe

8538
05:33:00,788 --> 05:32:59,120
and it's it's classified as unidentified

8539
05:33:03,030 --> 05:33:00,798
they don't know what was seen there but

8540
05:33:04,310 --> 05:33:03,040
there were other sightings going on

8541
05:33:06,628 --> 05:33:04,320
on the missile fields and these missile

8542
05:33:08,070 --> 05:33:06,638
fields around this mountain air force

8543
05:33:09,830 --> 05:33:08,080
base they're like you know could be 100

8544
05:33:13,670 --> 05:33:09,840
miles from the base they're scattered

8545
05:33:15,030 --> 05:33:13,680
all over all over the prairie in montana

8546
05:33:16,868 --> 05:33:15,040
and there was a

8547
05:33:18,948 --> 05:33:16,878
reported sighting of a ufo and then all

8548
05:33:21,350 --> 05:33:18,958
the missiles went offline

8549
05:33:22,708 --> 05:33:21,360
and the content committee

8550
05:33:24,150 --> 05:33:22,718
sent in there guy who had a security

8551
05:33:25,430 --> 05:33:24,160
clearance so he could see classified

8552
05:33:27,030 --> 05:33:25,440
material

8553
05:33:29,110 --> 05:33:27,040
and the

8554
05:33:32,070 --> 05:33:29,120
ufo officer lieutenant colonel louis

8555
05:33:34,230 --> 05:33:32,080
chase who is the rb 47 pilot

8556
05:33:36,470 --> 05:33:34,240
which is another sighting

8557
05:33:37,750 --> 05:33:36,480
um was there and he's talking to him and

8558
05:33:39,190 --> 05:33:37,760
they're talking about belt montana and

8559
05:33:40,830 --> 05:33:39,200
then the guy asked about the missiles

8560
05:33:42,788 --> 05:33:40,840
going offline

8561
05:33:46,070 --> 05:33:42,798
and

8562
05:33:48,390 --> 05:33:46,080
chase says i i can't tell you about that

8563
05:33:50,628 --> 05:33:48,400
you know it's it's classified

8564
05:33:51,670 --> 05:33:50,638
and it's a national security issue

8565
05:33:53,110 --> 05:33:51,680
so when you look at the content

8566
05:33:54,628 --> 05:33:53,120
committee said they said well there's no

8567
05:33:55,830 --> 05:33:54,638
national security issues involved well

8568
05:33:57,030 --> 05:33:55,840
that's a blatant lie because they knew

8569
05:33:59,430 --> 05:33:57,040
it was national syria calls because they

8570
05:34:00,628 --> 05:33:59,440
had a ufo sighting at a base where they

8571
05:34:02,470 --> 05:34:00,638
couldn't get the information because of

8572
05:34:03,830 --> 05:34:02,480
national security but i think that's

8573
05:34:05,510 --> 05:34:03,840
that's the bugaboo and if you think

8574
05:34:07,750 --> 05:34:05,520
about it now

8575
05:34:11,430 --> 05:34:07,760
if it came out that there was a way to

8576
05:34:13,670 --> 05:34:11,440
disable our missiles from outside

8577
05:34:15,590 --> 05:34:13,680
the launch control facility and the

8578
05:34:18,470 --> 05:34:15,600
silos themselves you could disable an

8579
05:34:20,230 --> 05:34:18,480
entire flight at one time that would be

8580
05:34:24,390 --> 05:34:20,240
valuable information

8581
05:34:26,548 --> 05:34:24,400
for the russians the chinese anybody

8582
05:34:28,548 --> 05:34:26,558
and so you don't want them to find out

8583
05:34:30,150 --> 05:34:28,558
that it can be done because if you know

8584
05:34:31,830 --> 05:34:30,160
something is possible you start looking

8585
05:34:33,510 --> 05:34:31,840
for ways to do it

8586
05:34:34,788 --> 05:34:33,520
if you think it's impossible oftentimes

8587
05:34:36,390 --> 05:34:34,798
you say what's impossible i'm not even

8588
05:34:37,830 --> 05:34:36,400
going to try but if you know it can be

8589
05:34:39,030 --> 05:34:37,840
done then you look for ways to do it so

8590
05:34:40,788 --> 05:34:39,040
i think it's national a national

8591
05:34:42,628 --> 05:34:40,798
security issue and i think that's the

8592
05:34:45,510 --> 05:34:42,638
bugaboo that continues on today it's

8593
05:34:46,788 --> 05:34:45,520
national security that requires them to

8594
05:34:49,750 --> 05:34:46,798
hide some of this information and

8595
05:34:52,390 --> 05:34:49,760
pretend like there's nothing to it

8596
05:34:54,788 --> 05:34:52,400
yeah i just to me i i just think that

8597
05:34:57,350 --> 05:34:54,798
like the the just the knowledge that

8598
05:34:59,430 --> 05:34:57,360
there's other species of intelligent

8599
05:35:01,430 --> 05:34:59,440
life out there in the universe it seems

8600
05:35:02,628 --> 05:35:01,440
to me to be almost a crime to keep that

8601
05:35:04,230 --> 05:35:02,638
from people

8602
05:35:07,270 --> 05:35:04,240
you know it just

8603
05:35:09,510 --> 05:35:07,280
just seems too important of revelation

8604
05:35:11,430 --> 05:35:09,520
to do you think that we'll we'll

8605
05:35:12,548 --> 05:35:11,440
eventually get to

8606
05:35:14,390 --> 05:35:12,558
uh

8607
05:35:15,750 --> 05:35:14,400
some revelations or do you think the

8608
05:35:18,548 --> 05:35:15,760
government will never

8609
05:35:20,070 --> 05:35:18,558
disclose what really happened i i

8610
05:35:22,150 --> 05:35:20,080
sincerely believe the governor

8611
05:35:24,470 --> 05:35:22,160
government will never disclose it but

8612
05:35:26,390 --> 05:35:24,480
it's not entirely in their hands if

8613
05:35:28,788 --> 05:35:26,400
there is alien visitation and the aliens

8614
05:35:30,230 --> 05:35:28,798
decide to land at times square

8615
05:35:31,350 --> 05:35:30,240
then the cat's out of the bag pretty

8616
05:35:33,030 --> 05:35:31,360
much

8617
05:35:34,708 --> 05:35:33,040
and that was the thing about roswell if

8618
05:35:36,548 --> 05:35:34,718
it had happened somewhere else they may

8619
05:35:38,708 --> 05:35:36,558
not have been able to hide it

8620
05:35:40,708 --> 05:35:38,718
but it happened in a very down in the

8621
05:35:43,670 --> 05:35:40,718
middle of the desert with a small pop a

8622
05:35:46,310 --> 05:35:43,680
small town nearby a military base yeah

8623
05:35:48,470 --> 05:35:46,320
military needs and the town's livelihood

8624
05:35:51,750 --> 05:35:48,480
is based on the military base it's now

8625
05:35:53,190 --> 05:35:51,760
no longer there but um and and and it's

8626
05:35:54,470 --> 05:35:53,200
right after world war ii so when the

8627
05:35:55,910 --> 05:35:54,480
government says you know you got to keep

8628
05:35:57,030 --> 05:35:55,920
this quiet don't talk about it people

8629
05:35:58,310 --> 05:35:57,040
did that

8630
05:35:59,270 --> 05:35:58,320
there was something called japanese

8631
05:36:00,868 --> 05:35:59,280
balloon bombs i don't know if you're

8632
05:36:03,110 --> 05:36:00,878
familiar with those or not it was oh

8633
05:36:05,350 --> 05:36:03,120
yeah yeah japanese people like that

8634
05:36:07,190 --> 05:36:05,360
battle of what was that that ufo

8635
05:36:08,708 --> 05:36:07,200
sighting in california the battle of los

8636
05:36:10,548 --> 05:36:08,718
angeles might have been one of those

8637
05:36:14,070 --> 05:36:10,558
balloons no they didn't start launching

8638
05:36:16,150 --> 05:36:14,080
until long after that but okay okay um

8639
05:36:17,590 --> 05:36:16,160
in late 1944 i think it was they were

8640
05:36:18,868 --> 05:36:17,600
creating these balloons that would cross

8641
05:36:19,990 --> 05:36:18,878
the atlantic and they found the jet

8642
05:36:22,868 --> 05:36:20,000
stream and they would launch the

8643
05:36:25,990 --> 05:36:22,878
balloons into the jet stream and attach

8644
05:36:27,430 --> 05:36:26,000
bombs to them and there was a mechanism

8645
05:36:29,110 --> 05:36:27,440
so that it would cycle through a number

8646
05:36:30,390 --> 05:36:29,120
of times and then if got to the point it

8647
05:36:32,070 --> 05:36:30,400
would drop its

8648
05:36:34,708 --> 05:36:32,080
incendiary bombs and what they wanted to

8649
05:36:36,470 --> 05:36:34,718
do was try to start fires in our forests

8650
05:36:38,070 --> 05:36:36,480
or start fires in factories and things

8651
05:36:39,990 --> 05:36:38,080
like that six people were actually

8652
05:36:41,030 --> 05:36:40,000
killed by a bloomberg in oregon it's the

8653
05:36:42,628 --> 05:36:41,040
only

8654
05:36:44,628 --> 05:36:42,638
fatalities on the north american

8655
05:36:46,150 --> 05:36:44,638
continent due to enemy action during

8656
05:36:48,230 --> 05:36:46,160
world war ii

8657
05:36:50,310 --> 05:36:48,240
but but and they got as far as uh

8658
05:36:54,070 --> 05:36:50,320
michigan i think it was and it's a woman

8659
05:36:56,470 --> 05:36:54,080
in iowa a reporter in iowa

8660
05:36:58,230 --> 05:36:56,480
had found one or knew about one the

8661
05:36:59,430 --> 05:36:58,240
farmer had reported to her she knew what

8662
05:37:02,230 --> 05:36:59,440
it was and she was going to write a

8663
05:37:03,590 --> 05:37:02,240
story for it and the fbi showed up

8664
05:37:05,430 --> 05:37:03,600
and said they didn't want the public to

8665
05:37:07,590 --> 05:37:05,440
know and panicked about they didn't want

8666
05:37:09,030 --> 05:37:07,600
newspapers because they they

8667
05:37:10,310 --> 05:37:09,040
they didn't want the japanese to know

8668
05:37:11,590 --> 05:37:10,320
that the balloon bombs were having some

8669
05:37:12,628 --> 05:37:11,600
success

8670
05:37:14,548 --> 05:37:12,638
they weren't having a lot they would

8671
05:37:16,310 --> 05:37:14,558
ramp up their efforts then right yeah

8672
05:37:18,150 --> 05:37:16,320
absolutely absolutely so they wanted to

8673
05:37:21,830 --> 05:37:18,160
keep it quiet for very very logical

8674
05:37:23,510 --> 05:37:21,840
reason uh once the once the war was over

8675
05:37:25,510 --> 05:37:23,520
i think the day after the the war was

8676
05:37:27,510 --> 05:37:25,520
officially declared over she wrote her

8677
05:37:29,030 --> 05:37:27,520
story about the balloon bombs that had

8678
05:37:31,430 --> 05:37:29,040
fallen on iowa

8679
05:37:34,708 --> 05:37:31,440
but um so there there are national

8680
05:37:36,150 --> 05:37:34,718
security implications and in 1947 if you

8681
05:37:38,150 --> 05:37:36,160
ask the people we you know please don't

8682
05:37:39,670 --> 05:37:38,160
talk about this we need a chance to

8683
05:37:41,510 --> 05:37:39,680
figure out what's going on i think they

8684
05:37:42,788 --> 05:37:41,520
would have said yeah that's good

8685
05:37:43,510 --> 05:37:42,798
we'll take care of it

8686
05:37:46,548 --> 05:37:43,520
and

8687
05:37:47,670 --> 05:37:46,558
i i think the stories of of people being

8688
05:37:49,990 --> 05:37:47,680
threatened

8689
05:37:52,230 --> 05:37:50,000
may be somewhat hyperbolic

8690
05:37:54,470 --> 05:37:52,240
and i say that i think that the military

8691
05:37:55,910 --> 05:37:54,480
people could be reminded you know if you

8692
05:37:57,990 --> 05:37:55,920
come if you're exposed to classified

8693
05:37:59,270 --> 05:37:58,000
material

8694
05:38:01,350 --> 05:37:59,280
you are not

8695
05:38:02,788 --> 05:38:01,360
authorized to to

8696
05:38:03,910 --> 05:38:02,798
release that information to other people

8697
05:38:05,190 --> 05:38:03,920
regardless of where you got that

8698
05:38:06,470 --> 05:38:05,200
information you cannot release it to

8699
05:38:08,230 --> 05:38:06,480
other people and you will go to jail for

8700
05:38:10,788 --> 05:38:08,240
20 years

8701
05:38:12,868 --> 05:38:10,798
and i think they may have i i think the

8702
05:38:14,150 --> 05:38:12,878
stories have grown into the death

8703
05:38:16,548 --> 05:38:14,160
threats

8704
05:38:17,910 --> 05:38:16,558
i think civilians were threatened with

8705
05:38:20,868 --> 05:38:17,920
jail and that sort of thing and i think

8706
05:38:27,030 --> 05:38:24,150
confabulated it to be

8707
05:38:29,190 --> 05:38:27,040
yeah that sort of thing but i i think in

8708
05:38:30,628 --> 05:38:29,200
1947 it made good sense and then when

8709
05:38:32,230 --> 05:38:30,638
you plug in the national security

8710
05:38:34,628 --> 05:38:32,240
implications especially after something

8711
05:38:38,150 --> 05:38:34,638
like belt montana then you understand

8712
05:38:39,990 --> 05:38:38,160
why they were reluctant to um

8713
05:38:41,270 --> 05:38:40,000
whether you're still reluctant to

8714
05:38:43,270 --> 05:38:41,280
release all the information i think it's

8715
05:38:45,030 --> 05:38:43,280
the national security implications but i

8716
05:38:47,590 --> 05:38:45,040
think i think the only way we're really

8717
05:38:50,390 --> 05:38:47,600
going to find out is if the aliens

8718
05:38:51,830 --> 05:38:50,400
arrive and make themselves known

8719
05:38:53,750 --> 05:38:51,840
yeah i've often thought that if there

8720
05:38:55,670 --> 05:38:53,760
was another mass sighting event like the

8721
05:38:57,030 --> 05:38:55,680
phoenix lights but maybe taking up a few

8722
05:38:59,110 --> 05:38:57,040
notches

8723
05:39:02,230 --> 05:38:59,120
it would be really difficult for them to

8724
05:39:04,390 --> 05:39:02,240
to cover up a real big mass sighting and

8725
05:39:05,590 --> 05:39:04,400
that may be how some form of disclosure

8726
05:39:07,270 --> 05:39:05,600
comes our way

8727
05:39:08,390 --> 05:39:07,280
i've talked to several skeptics about

8728
05:39:09,430 --> 05:39:08,400
this what they would take and some of

8729
05:39:11,830 --> 05:39:09,440
them said well i've got to see the craft

8730
05:39:14,150 --> 05:39:11,840
of the bodies period end of discussion

8731
05:39:17,430 --> 05:39:14,160
um but but those who are

8732
05:39:19,110 --> 05:39:17,440
somewhat less rigid in their thinking

8733
05:39:21,110 --> 05:39:19,120
their attitude is well

8734
05:39:23,110 --> 05:39:21,120
uh how it doesn't even have to be a mass

8735
05:39:24,788 --> 05:39:23,120
sighting but people are independent

8736
05:39:26,948 --> 05:39:24,798
people three or four different locations

8737
05:39:28,868 --> 05:39:26,958
photographing the same object

8738
05:39:30,390 --> 05:39:28,878
whether it's just photographs or movie

8739
05:39:31,510 --> 05:39:30,400
footage and in today's world i can't

8740
05:39:33,350 --> 05:39:31,520
understand why you wouldn't have movie

8741
05:39:34,708 --> 05:39:33,360
footage cell phones

8742
05:39:37,110 --> 05:39:34,718
of these sorts of things and if you've

8743
05:39:38,310 --> 05:39:37,120
got people independently

8744
05:39:39,670 --> 05:39:38,320
recording

8745
05:39:41,590 --> 05:39:39,680
a sighting

8746
05:39:43,270 --> 05:39:41,600
three or four or five of them at

8747
05:39:45,430 --> 05:39:43,280
separate locations

8748
05:39:48,150 --> 05:39:45,440
now you can triangulate now you can

8749
05:39:50,548 --> 05:39:48,160
gather all kinds of data from it and and

8750
05:39:51,990 --> 05:39:50,558
it becomes very difficult to to

8751
05:39:54,230 --> 05:39:52,000
determine or to

8752
05:39:57,110 --> 05:39:54,240
say no this is some mundane thing that

8753
05:39:58,310 --> 05:39:57,120
was misinterpreted

8754
05:39:59,750 --> 05:39:58,320
but you've got to have you've got to

8755
05:40:00,948 --> 05:39:59,760
have multiple witnesses and you've got

8756
05:40:03,190 --> 05:40:00,958
to have

8757
05:40:04,470 --> 05:40:03,200
independent corroboration for them or

8758
05:40:05,750 --> 05:40:04,480
independent uh

8759
05:40:08,548 --> 05:40:05,760
they have to be independent of one

8760
05:40:10,150 --> 05:40:08,558
another and that that may happen

8761
05:40:11,590 --> 05:40:10,160
uh if everybody would stop looking at

8762
05:40:13,030 --> 05:40:11,600
their cell phones and look up in the sky

8763
05:40:14,548 --> 05:40:13,040
once in a while

8764
05:40:16,548 --> 05:40:14,558
i know i have two children and i have a

8765
05:40:18,948 --> 05:40:16,558
real problem with them and screen time

8766
05:40:20,868 --> 05:40:18,958
like i have to you know say that's not

8767
05:40:23,590 --> 05:40:20,878
the real world put that down we're going

8768
05:40:25,910 --> 05:40:23,600
to do some activities or yeah i i wanted

8769
05:40:27,590 --> 05:40:25,920
to give you an opportunity yeah i wanted

8770
05:40:29,750 --> 05:40:27,600
to give you an opportunity

8771
05:40:31,430 --> 05:40:29,760
here uh i'm gonna share my screen and

8772
05:40:32,948 --> 05:40:31,440
show people i i don't know what your

8773
05:40:34,628 --> 05:40:32,958
latest book is but this is the latest

8774
05:40:37,590 --> 05:40:34,638
book of yours that i've actually read

8775
05:40:40,548 --> 05:40:37,600
and this is roswell in the 21st century

8776
05:40:42,548 --> 05:40:40,558
um which i highly recommend but uh

8777
05:40:44,390 --> 05:40:42,558
oh you have some other book

8778
05:40:46,150 --> 05:40:44,400
this is project project blue book yes

8779
05:40:47,990 --> 05:40:46,160
somebody put the link to that in the in

8780
05:40:49,670 --> 05:40:48,000
the live chat earlier

8781
05:40:51,510 --> 05:40:49,680
so that's all about project blue book

8782
05:40:53,270 --> 05:40:51,520
that's interesting but are all your

8783
05:40:55,030 --> 05:40:53,280
books on amazon like if somebody wanted

8784
05:40:57,590 --> 05:40:55,040
to hear more from yes or read your book

8785
05:40:58,390 --> 05:40:57,600
yes yes mostly just search kevin randle

8786
05:41:00,070 --> 05:40:58,400
right

8787
05:41:02,310 --> 05:41:00,080
yeah and most of them you get you can

8788
05:41:03,990 --> 05:41:02,320
get them as ebooks the vietnam ground

8789
05:41:06,150 --> 05:41:04,000
zero books as i said are still are

8790
05:41:08,390 --> 05:41:06,160
coming up and if you go to vietnam

8791
05:41:09,990 --> 05:41:08,400
ground zero.blogspot.com

8792
05:41:12,548 --> 05:41:10,000
there's a link on the side there that

8793
05:41:13,430 --> 05:41:12,558
you can link to the books and see what's

8794
05:41:14,948 --> 05:41:13,440
what's

8795
05:41:16,070 --> 05:41:14,958
well there you go

8796
05:41:17,510 --> 05:41:16,080
somebody

8797
05:41:20,150 --> 05:41:17,520
i was going to say encounter in the

8798
05:41:21,590 --> 05:41:20,160
desert that's about the socorro sighting

8799
05:41:25,110 --> 05:41:21,600
i noticed these were

8800
05:41:28,708 --> 05:41:26,868
ufos in the deep state will be out in

8801
05:41:31,190 --> 05:41:28,718
may

8802
05:41:33,190 --> 05:41:31,200
that was not now

8803
05:41:35,590 --> 05:41:33,200
yes this title has not yet been released

8804
05:41:38,708 --> 05:41:35,600
okay wow yeah

8805
05:41:40,470 --> 05:41:38,718
remember the alamo the best of roswell

8806
05:41:42,230 --> 05:41:40,480
oh no that's some reality

8807
05:41:43,830 --> 05:41:42,240
alien mysteries conspiracies and

8808
05:41:45,590 --> 05:41:43,840
cover-ups

8809
05:41:47,670 --> 05:41:45,600
yeah i could stay busy reading your

8810
05:41:49,190 --> 05:41:47,680
books for quite quite a long time

8811
05:41:56,390 --> 05:41:49,200
there's another science fiction novel

8812
05:42:00,788 --> 05:41:58,868
also exposes also an audio book which i

8813
05:42:02,788 --> 05:42:00,798
love audio books so

8814
05:42:04,628 --> 05:42:02,798
but bob cornett and i did uh and here's

8815
05:42:06,150 --> 05:42:04,638
your amazon link somebody see we've got

8816
05:42:08,310 --> 05:42:06,160
a good live chat they're helping you

8817
05:42:09,830 --> 05:42:08,320
sell some books okay yeah thank you guys

8818
05:42:11,270 --> 05:42:09,840
appreciate it

8819
05:42:12,708 --> 05:42:11,280
yeah and if you have if you have a

8820
05:42:15,270 --> 05:42:12,718
little bit more time i thought we could

8821
05:42:17,430 --> 05:42:15,280
ask the live chat for any questions for

8822
05:42:20,150 --> 05:42:17,440
you because this is a real opportunity

8823
05:42:22,390 --> 05:42:20,160
to get all the people here we've got 50

8824
05:42:24,310 --> 05:42:22,400
watching live if you have any questions

8825
05:42:26,070 --> 05:42:24,320
for mr randall please put them in all

8826
05:42:27,990 --> 05:42:26,080
caps i heard somebody mention if you

8827
05:42:30,868 --> 05:42:28,000
could just talk briefly because you and

8828
05:42:33,350 --> 05:42:30,878
i agree on one uh part of roswell the

8829
05:42:35,350 --> 05:42:33,360
book uh colonel corso's the day after

8830
05:42:37,750 --> 05:42:35,360
roswell i did not find it credible at

8831
05:42:39,910 --> 05:42:37,760
all after looking into him yeah you

8832
05:42:41,430 --> 05:42:39,920
don't find it credible either

8833
05:42:44,150 --> 05:42:41,440
i have a background in computer science

8834
05:42:46,070 --> 05:42:44,160
and electronics and so for somebody to

8835
05:42:48,470 --> 05:42:46,080
suggest that

8836
05:42:50,548 --> 05:42:48,480
the transistor wasn't already

8837
05:42:53,030 --> 05:42:50,558
well on its way to being invented before

8838
05:42:54,708 --> 05:42:53,040
the roswell event and and

8839
05:42:56,628 --> 05:42:54,718
just some of the things that he talks

8840
05:42:58,868 --> 05:42:56,638
about in there you know that

8841
05:43:02,150 --> 05:42:58,878
he gives zero credit to human

8842
05:43:06,310 --> 05:43:02,160
researchers the laser came from roswell

8843
05:43:08,948 --> 05:43:06,320
uh computer chips the transistor

8844
05:43:10,868 --> 05:43:08,958
fiber optics but if you look into the

8845
05:43:12,708 --> 05:43:10,878
the actual development of all these

8846
05:43:13,590 --> 05:43:12,718
technologies they were well on their way

8847
05:43:15,910 --> 05:43:13,600
before

8848
05:43:19,590 --> 05:43:15,920
roswell or at least there was some start

8849
05:43:22,708 --> 05:43:19,600
or foundation for them to come

8850
05:43:24,708 --> 05:43:22,718
if you uh well you haven't run convoys

8851
05:43:26,150 --> 05:43:24,718
but but i have been involved in convoys

8852
05:43:27,910 --> 05:43:26,160
crossing straight state lines for

8853
05:43:30,310 --> 05:43:27,920
example

8854
05:43:32,708 --> 05:43:30,320
when we were deploying to iraq we had to

8855
05:43:34,470 --> 05:43:32,718
go to fort riley kansas

8856
05:43:36,708 --> 05:43:34,480
and we had to cross state lines and we

8857
05:43:39,270 --> 05:43:36,718
had automatic weapons

8858
05:43:40,868 --> 05:43:39,280
um so it's very very difficult to do

8859
05:43:42,548 --> 05:43:40,878
that i mean we're authorized automatic

8860
05:43:44,230 --> 05:43:42,558
weapons but we had them

8861
05:43:46,230 --> 05:43:44,240
and we had to coordinate with an awful

8862
05:43:47,990 --> 05:43:46,240
lot

8863
05:43:50,230 --> 05:43:48,000
and when we stopped

8864
05:43:52,470 --> 05:43:50,240
when we stopped we had our own guards on

8865
05:43:54,788 --> 05:43:52,480
those trucks we didn't bring anybody

8866
05:43:56,628 --> 05:43:54,798
else in so when corso talks about how

8867
05:43:58,390 --> 05:43:56,638
they were trucking the

8868
05:44:00,390 --> 05:43:58,400
bodies to

8869
05:44:01,510 --> 05:44:00,400
um right field i'm thinking why they got

8870
05:44:03,190 --> 05:44:01,520
airplanes

8871
05:44:04,788 --> 05:44:03,200
you don't need you don't need to put

8872
05:44:07,270 --> 05:44:04,798
them in a truck that doesn't make sense

8873
05:44:09,750 --> 05:44:07,280
we can fly them on airplanes guys

8874
05:44:11,590 --> 05:44:09,760
uh and stopped at fort riley and he and

8875
05:44:13,990 --> 05:44:11,600
he says that they they unloaded the

8876
05:44:16,230 --> 05:44:14,000
trucks and took the boxes the

8877
05:44:17,510 --> 05:44:16,240
all the into a building to guard and

8878
05:44:19,510 --> 05:44:17,520
then they've got the local people

8879
05:44:20,628 --> 05:44:19,520
guarding it and they're the local people

8880
05:44:22,868 --> 05:44:20,638
are going through the boxes and they

8881
05:44:25,990 --> 05:44:22,878
come came across one with the body in it

8882
05:44:28,548 --> 05:44:26,000
and the sergeant calls major

8883
05:44:30,470 --> 05:44:28,558
corso at the time and i'm thinking not

8884
05:44:33,590 --> 05:44:30,480
1947 you're not going to be buddy buddy

8885
05:44:34,410 --> 05:44:33,600
with the ncos that way in 1947. things

8886
05:44:35,670 --> 05:44:34,420
have changed now and

8887
05:44:37,270 --> 05:44:35,680
[Music]

8888
05:44:39,190 --> 05:44:37,280
in in the relations

8889
05:44:40,708 --> 05:44:39,200
well in aviation units it really wasn't

8890
05:44:42,070 --> 05:44:40,718
that great dichotomy between the

8891
05:44:43,910 --> 05:44:42,080
officers and enlisted men because you

8892
05:44:44,948 --> 05:44:43,920
always work so closely together and you

8893
05:44:48,470 --> 05:44:44,958
and you

8894
05:44:50,310 --> 05:44:48,480
relied on one another to survive

8895
05:44:51,670 --> 05:44:50,320
but it just it just didn't make sense

8896
05:44:54,230 --> 05:44:51,680
and i'm thinking if i'm if i'm

8897
05:44:56,548 --> 05:44:54,240
responsible for the convoy when we get

8898
05:44:57,670 --> 05:44:56,558
to fort riley to remain overnight

8899
05:44:59,670 --> 05:44:57,680
because you've

8900
05:45:01,590 --> 05:44:59,680
the army has regulations on how you do

8901
05:45:03,350 --> 05:45:01,600
these things

8902
05:45:05,830 --> 05:45:03,360
my people are guarding

8903
05:45:07,910 --> 05:45:05,840
the trucks period end of discussion

8904
05:45:08,868 --> 05:45:07,920
and i know that when we when we convoyed

8905
05:45:11,590 --> 05:45:08,878
from

8906
05:45:12,948 --> 05:45:11,600
kuwait

8907
05:45:14,150 --> 05:45:12,958
to baghdad

8908
05:45:16,150 --> 05:45:14,160
when we

8909
05:45:18,868 --> 05:45:16,160
remained overnight

8910
05:45:20,390 --> 05:45:18,878
we ran our own we there were guys from

8911
05:45:22,230 --> 05:45:20,400
the the local

8912
05:45:25,350 --> 05:45:22,240
establishment the local military

8913
05:45:29,190 --> 05:45:27,350
but we were also guarding the interior

8914
05:45:30,948 --> 05:45:29,200
and and i remember

8915
05:45:33,270 --> 05:45:30,958
i was on the two o'clock in the morning

8916
05:45:35,670 --> 05:45:33,280
shift with the battalion commander

8917
05:45:38,390 --> 05:45:35,680
we because we of course were we're doing

8918
05:45:40,070 --> 05:45:38,400
our part to to um

8919
05:45:41,510 --> 05:45:40,080
for the guard duty as well we we weren't

8920
05:45:43,350 --> 05:45:41,520
required to do it but we thought you

8921
05:45:44,310 --> 05:45:43,360
know it's the best thing to do

8922
05:45:45,670 --> 05:45:44,320
um

8923
05:45:47,110 --> 05:45:45,680
it doesn't make sense right if you have

8924
05:45:58,948 --> 05:45:47,120
something so top secret why would you

8925
05:46:04,310 --> 05:46:01,110
why don't you get a camera come here and

8926
05:46:05,750 --> 05:46:04,320
take some photographs yo-yos um so i

8927
05:46:08,470 --> 05:46:05,760
mean there was a lot of stuff he he

8928
05:46:09,990 --> 05:46:08,480
claimed to be the commander at um white

8929
05:46:11,990 --> 05:46:10,000
sands missile range

8930
05:46:13,430 --> 05:46:12,000
there was never a commander under the

8931
05:46:14,628 --> 05:46:13,440
rank of colonel with the exception of

8932
05:46:16,310 --> 05:46:14,638
the first guy

8933
05:46:17,750 --> 05:46:16,320
and one guy who was temporary commander

8934
05:46:19,350 --> 05:46:17,760
when the general who was in charge had a

8935
05:46:20,150 --> 05:46:19,360
heart attack and died

8936
05:46:21,750 --> 05:46:20,160
um

8937
05:46:23,350 --> 05:46:21,760
everybody who had been in command at

8938
05:46:26,390 --> 05:46:23,360
wright san white sands had been a

8939
05:46:28,310 --> 05:46:26,400
general officer um and he said a lot of

8940
05:46:30,310 --> 05:46:28,320
things like that

8941
05:46:31,510 --> 05:46:30,320
he had the the introduction to his book

8942
05:46:33,750 --> 05:46:31,520
i've actually got one of the books with

8943
05:46:35,910 --> 05:46:33,760
the introduction by strom thurman in it

8944
05:46:36,948 --> 05:46:35,920
yeah and he had to pull that pulled that

8945
05:46:39,990 --> 05:46:36,958
yeah yeah

8946
05:46:41,830 --> 05:46:40,000
famous so it's so a senator writes the

8947
05:46:43,430 --> 05:46:41,840
the forward to his book not realizing

8948
05:46:45,270 --> 05:46:43,440
that it's a book about ufos and then he

8949
05:46:47,910 --> 05:46:45,280
gets pissed when he when he figures that

8950
05:46:48,868 --> 05:46:47,920
out and once it's taken out yeah the

8951
05:46:50,628 --> 05:46:48,878
books

8952
05:46:52,788 --> 05:46:50,638
absolutely so you know we looked at all

8953
05:46:54,230 --> 05:46:52,798
of that sort of thing carfo corso just

8954
05:46:57,990 --> 05:46:54,240
wasn't cr well there's a picture in the

8955
05:46:59,110 --> 05:46:58,000
book of a ufo over the hills

8956
05:47:00,948 --> 05:46:59,120
um

8957
05:47:02,548 --> 05:47:00,958
and those of us who've been around the

8958
05:47:05,430 --> 05:47:02,558
field more than 10 minutes know that the

8959
05:47:08,230 --> 05:47:05,440
picture's a hoax it was published in

8960
05:47:09,830 --> 05:47:08,240
1966 and look magazine did a

8961
05:47:11,030 --> 05:47:09,840
flying saucer special that's one of the

8962
05:47:13,910 --> 05:47:11,040
pictures in there the guy took the

8963
05:47:16,070 --> 05:47:13,920
picture said yeah i was young i was 20

8964
05:47:17,750 --> 05:47:16,080
years old it was a ford hubcap we threw

8965
05:47:19,750 --> 05:47:17,760
it in the air we took a photograph and

8966
05:47:21,750 --> 05:47:19,760
that's in corso's book he doesn't even

8967
05:47:24,070 --> 05:47:21,760
know it's fake

8968
05:47:26,230 --> 05:47:24,080
yeah that that doesn't lend well to his

8969
05:47:28,310 --> 05:47:26,240
credibility here's a quick question

8970
05:47:29,350 --> 05:47:28,320
bob lazar credible or fake i know what i

8971
05:47:31,750 --> 05:47:29,360
believe

8972
05:47:33,350 --> 05:47:31,760
well i i don't i don't find a story

8973
05:47:35,990 --> 05:47:33,360
particularly credible

8974
05:47:37,830 --> 05:47:36,000
there we go we agree on that

8975
05:47:40,230 --> 05:47:37,840
my friend george knapp is mad at me for

8976
05:47:42,788 --> 05:47:40,240
that but that's the way you know he took

8977
05:47:45,430 --> 05:47:42,798
i i got into it with george knapp over

8978
05:47:47,270 --> 05:47:45,440
the end of a documentary

8979
05:47:48,708 --> 05:47:47,280
you know i did some my own research and

8980
05:47:50,868 --> 05:47:48,718
found out that that had nothing to do

8981
05:47:52,390 --> 05:47:50,878
with element 115 or flying saucer

8982
05:47:54,230 --> 05:47:52,400
stories it had to do with a routine

8983
05:47:57,030 --> 05:47:54,240
murder investigation

8984
05:47:59,510 --> 05:47:57,040
apparently mr lazar was selling there's

8985
05:48:00,948 --> 05:47:59,520
a valium or thorium i always forget what

8986
05:48:03,110 --> 05:48:00,958
the element was called but he sold

8987
05:48:04,788 --> 05:48:03,120
somebody either thalium or thorium and

8988
05:48:06,628 --> 05:48:04,798
then the guy murdered his wife with it

8989
05:48:08,470 --> 05:48:06,638
in another state so they came there to

8990
05:48:10,230 --> 05:48:08,480
find the thallium and the sales records

8991
05:48:11,430 --> 05:48:10,240
had nothing to do with flying saucers or

8992
05:48:13,670 --> 05:48:11,440
any of that stuff

8993
05:48:15,990 --> 05:48:13,680
and so i i took that to george knapp and

8994
05:48:17,670 --> 05:48:16,000
boy he was not happy with me and told me

8995
05:48:20,868 --> 05:48:17,680
that i don't know [\h__\h]

8996
05:48:22,868 --> 05:48:20,878
about research or murders or whatever so

8997
05:48:24,708 --> 05:48:22,878
but it is what it is you know

8998
05:48:25,510 --> 05:48:24,718
that's kind of the problem too you know

8999
05:48:28,150 --> 05:48:25,520
um

9000
05:48:30,948 --> 05:48:28,160
if you were to ask me about kecksburg

9001
05:48:32,788 --> 05:48:30,958
10 years ago i'd say yeah that's good

9002
05:48:34,548 --> 05:48:32,798
and now i just don't know i don't think

9003
05:48:36,708 --> 05:48:34,558
so i think it's i think there's

9004
05:48:38,390 --> 05:48:36,718
alternative explanations for it and it's

9005
05:48:39,830 --> 05:48:38,400
again cluttered like the roswell field

9006
05:48:41,350 --> 05:48:39,840
with people coming forward saying yeah i

9007
05:48:43,270 --> 05:48:41,360
was there i saw this i saw that the

9008
05:48:45,830 --> 05:48:43,280
other thing yeah i'm in pennsylvania and

9009
05:48:49,030 --> 05:48:45,840
i actually i actually drove out there

9010
05:48:51,110 --> 05:48:49,040
and uh and uh to see the crash site and

9011
05:48:53,110 --> 05:48:51,120
i was pretty underwhelmed

9012
05:48:55,270 --> 05:48:53,120
well i know stan burton did an awful lot

9013
05:48:58,470 --> 05:48:55,280
of work and uh yeah he was on my show

9014
05:49:03,110 --> 05:49:00,788
great guy nice guy

9015
05:49:05,830 --> 05:49:03,120
yeah but i don't know i think that that

9016
05:49:08,070 --> 05:49:05,840
was most likely it was it was it's just

9017
05:49:09,910 --> 05:49:08,080
too coincidental to me that a russian

9018
05:49:13,350 --> 05:49:09,920
satellite went down right around that

9019
05:49:15,110 --> 05:49:13,360
time you know at the same time

9020
05:49:16,470 --> 05:49:15,120
yeah there's there's some problems with

9021
05:49:18,150 --> 05:49:16,480
that story

9022
05:49:20,070 --> 05:49:18,160
but you know we we have to look at all

9023
05:49:22,150 --> 05:49:20,080
of that sort of thing you know and and i

9024
05:49:23,590 --> 05:49:22,160
get really tired and i've said it before

9025
05:49:24,708 --> 05:49:23,600
these people

9026
05:49:26,150 --> 05:49:24,718
falling back on their military

9027
05:49:27,910 --> 05:49:26,160
credentials and you know you brought up

9028
05:49:30,230 --> 05:49:27,920
corso for example well i was a colonel

9029
05:49:31,990 --> 05:49:30,240
in the air in the army no he wasn't he

9030
05:49:34,150 --> 05:49:32,000
was a lieutenant colonel

9031
05:49:35,990 --> 05:49:34,160
a big difference you know well it's not

9032
05:49:38,150 --> 05:49:36,000
occurring or lieutenant colonel is a big

9033
05:49:40,150 --> 05:49:38,160
difference isn't there well i've always

9034
05:49:42,070 --> 05:49:40,160
looked at it this way if you if you are

9035
05:49:43,830 --> 05:49:42,080
commissioned as a second lieutenant

9036
05:49:45,430 --> 05:49:43,840
there's about a 95 chance you'll be

9037
05:49:47,350 --> 05:49:45,440
promoted first lieutenant you either

9038
05:49:48,390 --> 05:49:47,360
have to get out get killed or really

9039
05:49:49,910 --> 05:49:48,400
screw up

9040
05:49:51,830 --> 05:49:49,920
and the step from first lieutenant

9041
05:49:54,390 --> 05:49:51,840
captain isn't that big

9042
05:49:56,150 --> 05:49:54,400
the step from captain to to major is a

9043
05:49:57,670 --> 05:49:56,160
little bit larger

9044
05:49:59,670 --> 05:49:57,680
because you're moving from company grade

9045
05:50:00,470 --> 05:49:59,680
to field grade and more responsibility

9046
05:50:03,190 --> 05:50:00,480
so

9047
05:50:05,270 --> 05:50:03,200
fewer people are are selected for major

9048
05:50:07,670 --> 05:50:05,280
and you move from from major to to

9049
05:50:09,350 --> 05:50:07,680
lieutenant colonel that's another step

9050
05:50:10,708 --> 05:50:09,360
but not a real big step for major

9051
05:50:13,350 --> 05:50:10,718
lieutenant colonel but when you get to

9052
05:50:15,830 --> 05:50:13,360
colonel that's a big step

9053
05:50:18,310 --> 05:50:15,840
because now you're you're on the cusp of

9054
05:50:19,910 --> 05:50:18,320
general officer and then go to brigadier

9055
05:50:21,830 --> 05:50:19,920
general of course is another large step

9056
05:50:23,670 --> 05:50:21,840
and i always felt it felt it

9057
05:50:25,830 --> 05:50:23,680
looked at it that way

9058
05:50:28,470 --> 05:50:25,840
and so um

9059
05:50:30,548 --> 05:50:28,480
and carson got caught on that and i had

9060
05:50:33,110 --> 05:50:30,558
a similar situation happen to me when

9061
05:50:35,190 --> 05:50:33,120
the ufo case book came out the publisher

9062
05:50:36,230 --> 05:50:35,200
put u.s air force

9063
05:50:38,310 --> 05:50:36,240
uh

9064
05:50:41,670 --> 05:50:38,320
retired

9065
05:50:43,350 --> 05:50:41,680
because i i signed something with usafr

9066
05:50:45,030 --> 05:50:43,360
which was united states air force

9067
05:50:46,628 --> 05:50:45,040
reserve and he thought it was retired so

9068
05:50:49,350 --> 05:50:46,638
the book comes out and says retired on

9069
05:50:49,560 --> 05:50:49,360
it and some guy wrote this big expose on

9070
05:50:51,750 --> 05:50:49,570
me

9071
05:50:53,670 --> 05:50:51,760
[Music]

9072
05:50:55,670 --> 05:50:53,680
you're much too young

9073
05:50:58,310 --> 05:50:55,680
and i had joined

9074
05:51:00,708 --> 05:50:58,320
i joined the army when i was 18. and at

9075
05:51:02,868 --> 05:51:00,718
the time this came out i was 38

9076
05:51:04,708 --> 05:51:02,878
and so i wrote back well actually i am

9077
05:51:06,948 --> 05:51:04,718
old enough to be retired

9078
05:51:09,750 --> 05:51:06,958
but that was a mistake the editor made

9079
05:51:11,030 --> 05:51:09,760
not me it should have been reserved not

9080
05:51:14,230 --> 05:51:11,040
retired

9081
05:51:16,868 --> 05:51:14,240
and so i copped to it and i and and i i

9082
05:51:18,948 --> 05:51:16,878
think the same thing happened with corso

9083
05:51:20,230 --> 05:51:18,958
they just got to use calling him colonel

9084
05:51:22,230 --> 05:51:20,240
and didn't realize it was lieutenant

9085
05:51:23,750 --> 05:51:22,240
colonel so when the book came out he he

9086
05:51:25,910 --> 05:51:23,760
says yeah i was retire

9087
05:51:28,310 --> 05:51:25,920
i was promoted to colonel when i retired

9088
05:51:30,310 --> 05:51:28,320
no evidence that that happened at all

9089
05:51:32,150 --> 05:51:30,320
so i mean the cover of the day and

9090
05:51:32,948 --> 05:51:32,160
that's not very common for somebody to

9091
05:51:37,830 --> 05:51:32,958
get

9092
05:51:40,548 --> 05:51:37,840
retire is it well no as you retire

9093
05:51:42,150 --> 05:51:40,558
sometimes there are brevit promotions as

9094
05:51:43,510 --> 05:51:42,160
kind of a reward for your service

9095
05:51:44,788 --> 05:51:43,520
especially in the reserves of the

9096
05:51:47,110 --> 05:51:44,798
nationals so maybe you could get a

9097
05:51:48,548 --> 05:51:47,120
higher retirement monthly payment but

9098
05:51:50,948 --> 05:51:48,558
because you're right you want to do your

9099
05:51:52,708 --> 05:51:50,958
favor on the way out the the

9100
05:51:54,868 --> 05:51:52,718
uh time and grade for promotions

9101
05:51:56,150 --> 05:51:54,878
differed radically from from the reserve

9102
05:51:56,510 --> 05:51:56,160
to the

9103
05:51:57,670 --> 05:51:56,520
um

9104
05:51:59,750 --> 05:51:57,680
[Music]

9105
05:52:00,948 --> 05:51:59,760
active forces and you look at a lot of

9106
05:52:02,548 --> 05:52:00,958
officers

9107
05:52:04,010 --> 05:52:02,558
ranks and you'll see

9108
05:52:05,510 --> 05:52:04,020
they'll be

9109
05:52:07,270 --> 05:52:05,520
[Music]

9110
05:52:09,190 --> 05:52:07,280
a brigadier general and their permanent

9111
05:52:11,190 --> 05:52:09,200
grade will be major

9112
05:52:13,590 --> 05:52:11,200
and so once you retire if you've served

9113
05:52:15,670 --> 05:52:13,600
on active duty in that higher grade then

9114
05:52:17,750 --> 05:52:15,680
then you retire at the higher grade

9115
05:52:19,190 --> 05:52:17,760
or if you get into trouble you revert to

9116
05:52:22,390 --> 05:52:19,200
your

9117
05:52:24,230 --> 05:52:22,400
laughed about that because the air force

9118
05:52:26,948 --> 05:52:24,240
had done away with ward officers and

9119
05:52:29,830 --> 05:52:26,958
when i went into rotc

9120
05:52:31,750 --> 05:52:29,840
uh they listed my grade as warrant

9121
05:52:32,788 --> 05:52:31,760
officer because i'd been a ward officer

9122
05:52:34,628 --> 05:52:32,798
in the army and i always thought it was

9123
05:52:36,628 --> 05:52:34,638
kind of funny that technically could

9124
05:52:39,270 --> 05:52:36,638
have made me the last ward officer in

9125
05:52:40,868 --> 05:52:39,280
the air force but i got commissioned

9126
05:52:43,350 --> 05:52:40,878
it didn't happen so had i been in the

9127
05:52:43,750 --> 05:52:43,360
air force and got out i would have um

9128
05:52:45,990 --> 05:52:43,760
um

9129
05:52:47,830 --> 05:52:46,000
[Music]

9130
05:52:50,628 --> 05:52:47,840
i i you know i i could have been the

9131
05:52:53,030 --> 05:52:50,638
last air the last air force off last air

9132
05:52:54,948 --> 05:52:53,040
force ward officer

9133
05:52:55,990 --> 05:52:54,958
another good question is

9134
05:52:57,350 --> 05:52:56,000
but i think you've kind of already

9135
05:52:58,948 --> 05:52:57,360
answered this what is your hope for the

9136
05:53:01,350 --> 05:52:58,958
future in reference to government

9137
05:53:03,270 --> 05:53:01,360
disclosure i as i said i don't think

9138
05:53:05,830 --> 05:53:03,280
it's going to happen i think we have to

9139
05:53:07,590 --> 05:53:05,840
wait for some some other force to to do

9140
05:53:09,110 --> 05:53:07,600
it there's no motivation for the

9141
05:53:10,868 --> 05:53:09,120
government to do it and i think in

9142
05:53:12,590 --> 05:53:10,878
today's environment especially with

9143
05:53:13,910 --> 05:53:12,600
what's going on uh

9144
05:53:16,230 --> 05:53:13,920
[Music]

9145
05:53:18,150 --> 05:53:16,240
they're too busy doing other stuff some

9146
05:53:20,070 --> 05:53:18,160
of it not very important some of it not

9147
05:53:22,070 --> 05:53:20,080
very useful but they're busy doing this

9148
05:53:23,590 --> 05:53:22,080
other stuff when they should be worrying

9149
05:53:25,190 --> 05:53:23,600
about some of the problems we have like

9150
05:53:27,910 --> 05:53:25,200
covet 19

9151
05:53:30,708 --> 05:53:27,920
but um there's no motivation for them to

9152
05:53:32,628 --> 05:53:30,718
disclose anything at this point

9153
05:53:34,548 --> 05:53:32,638
yeah i don't think that they'll ever do

9154
05:53:37,350 --> 05:53:34,558
it unless they're forced their hand is

9155
05:53:39,190 --> 05:53:37,360
forced it has to be forced by nothing

9156
05:53:41,750 --> 05:53:39,200
and absolutely another great question is

9157
05:53:44,788 --> 05:53:41,760
what individual uh story is the most

9158
05:53:47,190 --> 05:53:44,798
interesting to you kevin and why

9159
05:53:50,390 --> 05:53:47,200
oh

9160
05:53:51,270 --> 05:53:50,400
i think he means like exo ufo story

9161
05:53:55,750 --> 05:53:51,280
well

9162
05:53:58,070 --> 05:53:55,760
because of of all the people involved i

9163
05:53:59,750 --> 05:53:58,080
think the level land ufo sightings are

9164
05:54:01,270 --> 05:53:59,760
very very important because you had so

9165
05:54:02,788 --> 05:54:01,280
many people involved and you've got the

9166
05:54:04,628 --> 05:54:02,798
ufo interacting with the environment

9167
05:54:08,628 --> 05:54:04,638
installing the car engines

9168
05:54:11,110 --> 05:54:08,638
and putting out the headlights and

9169
05:54:12,548 --> 05:54:11,120
there is a an awful lot of information

9170
05:54:14,390 --> 05:54:12,558
about that that i've uncovered in the

9171
05:54:16,948 --> 05:54:14,400
last couple of years that hasn't come

9172
05:54:18,708 --> 05:54:16,958
out yet including what the

9173
05:54:20,948 --> 05:54:18,718
sheriff in level land

9174
05:54:22,708 --> 05:54:20,958
how deep he was involved in some of the

9175
05:54:25,430 --> 05:54:22,718
things that were going on but i think

9176
05:54:27,670 --> 05:54:25,440
that's a very important case because you

9177
05:54:29,750 --> 05:54:27,680
have the multiple witnesses you have the

9178
05:54:31,190 --> 05:54:29,760
ufo interacting with the environment and

9179
05:54:32,948 --> 05:54:31,200
you can see the nonsensical

9180
05:54:35,110 --> 05:54:32,958
investigation conducted by the air force

9181
05:54:37,350 --> 05:54:35,120
saying well it was ball lightning ball

9182
05:54:39,830 --> 05:54:37,360
lightning is very small and very

9183
05:54:42,390 --> 05:54:39,840
short-lived and you don't get massive

9184
05:54:44,230 --> 05:54:42,400
displays of them all over an area over a

9185
05:54:45,750 --> 05:54:44,240
period of two hours so the ball

9186
05:54:46,788 --> 05:54:45,760
lightning explanation simply doesn't

9187
05:54:48,788 --> 05:54:46,798
work

9188
05:54:50,548 --> 05:54:48,798
explanation is swamp gas

9189
05:54:53,190 --> 05:54:50,558
yeah

9190
05:54:56,708 --> 05:54:53,200
and we talk about swamp gas in

9191
05:54:58,708 --> 05:54:56,718
in project blue book exposed

9192
05:55:00,628 --> 05:54:58,718
yeah and and could you talk for just a

9193
05:55:02,708 --> 05:55:00,638
moment uh since we're on the subject of

9194
05:55:05,190 --> 05:55:02,718
a blue book about the second

9195
05:55:06,868 --> 05:55:05,200
blue book the the one

9196
05:55:08,628 --> 05:55:06,878
you know there's the public blue book

9197
05:55:11,910 --> 05:55:08,638
and then didn't they have a separate

9198
05:55:14,708 --> 05:55:11,920
program for any of the cases which might

9199
05:55:16,548 --> 05:55:14,718
um affect national security that was not

9200
05:55:18,310 --> 05:55:16,558
published we kind of discussed that the

9201
05:55:20,948 --> 05:55:18,320
national security implications come into

9202
05:55:22,628 --> 05:55:20,958
play but general bolander said in 1969

9203
05:55:24,150 --> 05:55:22,638
that cases that

9204
05:55:25,830 --> 05:55:24,160
that were affected by national security

9205
05:55:27,830 --> 05:55:25,840
or impacted national security were not

9206
05:55:29,190 --> 05:55:27,840
part of the blue book system

9207
05:55:30,868 --> 05:55:29,200
so we know there was a secondary

9208
05:55:32,548 --> 05:55:30,878
investigation going on we later

9209
05:55:33,830 --> 05:55:32,558
discovered there was another one called

9210
05:55:36,310 --> 05:55:33,840
moon dust

9211
05:55:39,030 --> 05:55:36,320
and moon was a a

9212
05:55:41,510 --> 05:55:39,040
project to recover returning space

9213
05:55:43,590 --> 05:55:41,520
debris a foreign manufacturer or unknown

9214
05:55:45,270 --> 05:55:43,600
origin and we want to get our hands on

9215
05:55:46,708 --> 05:55:45,280
the russian stuff if we could just to

9216
05:55:48,390 --> 05:55:46,718
see what they yeah but unknown origin

9217
05:55:51,430 --> 05:55:48,400
also suggests extraterrestrial we know

9218
05:55:53,270 --> 05:55:51,440
there was a ufo component because

9219
05:55:55,110 --> 05:55:53,280
when the state department inadvertently

9220
05:55:56,390 --> 05:55:55,120
released a bunch of documents to i think

9221
05:55:59,190 --> 05:55:56,400
robert todd

9222
05:56:00,708 --> 05:55:59,200
um moondust was moondust was mentioned

9223
05:56:02,310 --> 05:56:00,718
in there and there was ufo component to

9224
05:56:04,788 --> 05:56:02,320
it i found four cases in the project

9225
05:56:06,390 --> 05:56:04,798
blue book files labeled moondust

9226
05:56:08,708 --> 05:56:06,400
yeah that's interesting and you've got

9227
05:56:10,548 --> 05:56:08,718
the documents and another excellent

9228
05:56:12,948 --> 05:56:10,558
another excellent question asked kevin

9229
05:56:15,670 --> 05:56:12,958
about jacobson's book annie jacobson has

9230
05:56:18,868 --> 05:56:15,680
this book about area 51 and the last

9231
05:56:21,110 --> 05:56:18,878
chapter has got some crazy story about

9232
05:56:22,470 --> 05:56:21,120
uh uh

9233
05:56:26,150 --> 05:56:22,480
you know

9234
05:56:28,310 --> 05:56:26,160
mengela and and stalin got together and

9235
05:56:30,788 --> 05:56:28,320
somehow manufactured these fake alien

9236
05:56:33,190 --> 05:56:30,798
bodies and this strange craft to fly it

9237
05:56:34,788 --> 05:56:33,200
over the united states and panic us do

9238
05:56:35,830 --> 05:56:34,798
you think there's any credibility to her

9239
05:56:36,948 --> 05:56:35,840
claims

9240
05:56:39,270 --> 05:56:36,958
no

9241
05:56:40,868 --> 05:56:39,280
there you go quick answer

9242
05:56:42,708 --> 05:56:40,878
yeah that's the thing present some

9243
05:56:44,310 --> 05:56:42,718
documentation present some proof you're

9244
05:56:45,590 --> 05:56:44,320
going to claim to be a military officer

9245
05:56:48,868 --> 05:56:45,600
present us with some actual

9246
05:56:51,990 --> 05:56:48,878
documentation that we can verify um

9247
05:56:54,310 --> 05:56:52,000
and it goes back to to people like um

9248
05:56:56,470 --> 05:56:54,320
um willingham you know he presented the

9249
05:56:58,470 --> 05:56:56,480
documentation but we couldn't verify it

9250
05:57:00,948 --> 05:56:58,480
when we went to the sources they said no

9251
05:57:03,350 --> 05:57:00,958
this stuff is not real so i mean that

9252
05:57:04,948 --> 05:57:03,360
that's the point if you want to check my

9253
05:57:07,670 --> 05:57:04,958
background

9254
05:57:09,910 --> 05:57:07,680
send the documentation to the st louis

9255
05:57:11,270 --> 05:57:09,920
and ask him for my military records ask

9256
05:57:12,628 --> 05:57:11,280
him for the army ones because if you get

9257
05:57:13,990 --> 05:57:12,638
the air force ones

9258
05:57:16,390 --> 05:57:14,000
i think it's only got me as a first

9259
05:57:18,628 --> 05:57:16,400
lieutenant on there and the

9260
05:57:19,990 --> 05:57:18,638
you need to get the army army rec army

9261
05:57:22,628 --> 05:57:20,000
records

9262
05:57:25,270 --> 05:57:22,638
to uh to pick up some of that stuff

9263
05:57:27,350 --> 05:57:25,280
yeah well listen this has been one of my

9264
05:57:29,750 --> 05:57:27,360
favorite shows so far it's just been

9265
05:57:31,750 --> 05:57:29,760
fascinating and a dream come true i

9266
05:57:34,948 --> 05:57:31,760
still am thinking about sitting in my

9267
05:57:35,910 --> 05:57:34,958
living room with my father who uh

9268
05:57:38,310 --> 05:57:35,920
liked

9269
05:57:39,910 --> 05:57:38,320
sort of uh aviation and and hearing

9270
05:57:41,750 --> 05:57:39,920
about roswell for the first time with

9271
05:57:42,708 --> 05:57:41,760
you on unsolved mysteries and now you're

9272
05:57:46,390 --> 05:57:42,718
here

9273
05:57:48,390 --> 05:57:46,400
uh in my show which is amazing i want to

9274
05:57:50,628 --> 05:57:48,400
thank you so here's what i'm going to do

9275
05:57:52,628 --> 05:57:50,638
with uh kevin i'm going to play us out

9276
05:57:55,270 --> 05:57:52,638
if you just want to stand by for a

9277
05:57:56,628 --> 05:57:55,280
moment uh i would appreciate that okay

9278
05:57:58,788 --> 05:57:56,638
while i play

9279
05:58:00,070 --> 05:57:58,798
with the bumper so i want to i want to

9280
05:58:02,628 --> 05:58:00,080
thank each and every one of you for

9281
05:58:04,070 --> 05:58:02,638
joining us this has been just i could

9282
05:58:05,670 --> 05:58:04,080
talk to you for five more hours i don't

9283
05:58:07,430 --> 05:58:05,680
want to keep you that long

9284
05:58:09,350 --> 05:58:07,440
maybe we can have you come back

9285
05:58:14,788 --> 05:58:09,360
that would be awesome

9286
05:58:16,390 --> 05:58:14,798
won't mention that guy

9287
05:58:17,830 --> 05:58:16,400
or maybe you could come back with them i

9288
05:58:19,910 --> 05:58:17,840
don't know we'll see

9289
05:58:21,430 --> 05:58:19,920
all right friends uh i want to thank

9290
05:58:23,510 --> 05:58:21,440
each and every one of you for joining us

9291
05:58:28,150 --> 05:58:23,520
for our very special event revisiting

9292
05:58:34,190 --> 05:58:28,160
roswell with uh dr kevin randall